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New to CoC LCG, and old Magic player, lots of rules questions!

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#1
BeldVanGuard

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Hello folks,

My local game store has been looking for some new games to run for events, and I've recently looked into, acquired and adore, CoC LCG (and hell the whole LCG format) and been demoing it to everyone and the other card game players, and its gotten quite a bit of interest. So I've gotten our store signed up for a 2014 tournament store and will be hosting and running the events.
Problem is, with no one else around who knows the game well, and the sadly spread out community, when I run into some rule issues or questions, I'm stuck hunting online. Seeing as how I'll be running events in a few months, I want to make sure I'm doing things correctly. However I've recently found this website and forum, and everyone sounds helpful and very loving of the game, so if you'd indulge my newbness, I have a battery of questions I'm hoping I can get some confirmation on.

Thanks in advance and sorry for the novel heh


GENERAL QUESTIONS:

Can you disrupt a disrupt, assuming all conditions met? Without a stack, and the 1 event resolved at a time, I am unsure of this works

Transient Cards: When resourced, and the Domain is drained (not optional?) the card grants resources = to the faction icons printed on it, then is placed in the discard pile, correct?

If a character ability costs 2 to active (and doesn't involve exhausting) and I drain a domain for 4, can it be used twice as the resources are all being placed into the same effect, or is it always 1 domain drain for 1 effect, regardless of amount drained and where it's used? (not counting cards with overpay effects of course)

Is there a 2nd Operations phase (like 2nd Main Phase in Magic) after the Story phase? or does the end of the story phase lead right into End of Turn phase?

What can be done during the "End of Turn" phase? I haven't seen a card referencing this yet, and considering how responses work, it seems largely ignored. Want to make sure I'm not missing something

Can character abilities still be used when the character is exhausted if exhausting is not part of the cost? IE: Cthulhu (R'yleh version) is exhausted after committing to a story, can I pay 3 to active his Sacrifice ability?
In the same vein, can a character like Dangerous Inmate go insane to trigger his effect after just being restored while still exhausted?

I've seen several people ask similar questions to this one, but what is the defining rule on Effect, Triggered Effect, Constant Effect, when it comes to Disrupts etc? My understanding is Constant Effects cannot be stopped or interrupted, but the others can if the card says so. However what counts as an Effect and Triggered Effect seems to cause conflict with certain cards (apologies I don't have any examples handy) any clarifications here or examples would be very appreciated

I am aware Destroy and Sacrifice are not the same thing for triggering wording on certain cards, and I know something dying from wounds is considered Destroyed for resolution purposes, but what about "Discard from play"? (O'Bannion's Ledger) ? Is this its only special removal ability? I can't recall another card with this wording.

Character abilities that read "Pay 2" or similar with no icons listed can be paid with any faction or colorless resources correct?

INSANITY:

Do Terror Icons / Willpower prevent global non targeting effects?
IE: If a card says "All characters in play go insane" are Terror Icon and Will Power characters still immune?
I ask this because in Magic, Protection from Color abilities can be circumvented with non targeted effects.
Same for "Target Opponent must make a character he controls go insane" and the only character he has has Willpower or a Terror Icon, does he get to ignore the effect?

Is the only way around this, to blank a text box (in case of Willpower) or Remove/Steal all Terror Icons from character?

Things in the Ground only works around this because the cards in discard pile are considered blank unless its a "from discard pile" ability? Or is this a "must" wording issue? If so, would "Must Go Insane" ignore Willpower / Terror Icons? Or does that fall into the "Cannot" ruling?

Do any other cards ignore these rules like Things in the Ground? (If ya can't tell, been playing with Hastur and having a rough time)

Only 1 Insane character can be restored during refresh phase, is this correct? I just recently found this, and found 1 of my rule printings doesn't say this.

Targeting an Insane character who is already insane has no effect correct?

Restoring an insane character always comes with the "cost" of exhausting them as well, correct? So in an odd scenario where an insane character is made "readied", when he is restored, he would re-exhaust?

Can an Insane Character be forced to commit to a story via an effect / spell as a blank 0 stat character?

Can you equip an Insane Character? If so, does it fall off during Restore, or does the attachment only fall off a character when he goes insane?



STORY PHASE:

Are all characters considered to be committed at the same time, or one at a time? (In references to responses available to opponent) If they are done one at a time for response, does that mean the opponent can only mess with them response wise before I select them for commitment?

If a character is uncommitted from a story, (assuming they are done one at a time) can he be recommitted elsewhere, or is that character's "commitment action" used up for that story phase?

The Investigation Struggle is the only way to win a success token on an opponent turns during story phase, correct? (Barring all weird exception rule cards etc)

There can only be 1 Conspiracy Card in play at a time. Is this for each player or in general? IE: Can both players have a Conspiracy out? If so, can they both have the same one out?

Can players take actions etc during struggle resolution? If so, is it standard back and forth response, priority goes to active player? (I've read some very conflicting info on that, we've been playing where all actions are done before struggles begin, and then let the whole thing just play out, not counting Forced Responses and "Use after Struggle resolves" type cards)

If a character is uncommitted from a story via spell/ability etc, can a spell or ability recommit that same character?

SPECIFIC CARD QUESTIONS:

Prism of Many Views - Can you mill someone with this card mid draw step to prevent them from drawing a card you don't want them to have? If so, I am aware this does NOT steal his draw, and he would draw a replacement card.

Prophecies - Is there a way to use / play these during your draw step? If you don't trigger it, do you just draw it back as one of your cards clogging your draw, or does it remain on top? I enjoy this mechanic but haven't been able to clarify how they work very well

Parallel Universe - I can play and attach this card for 1 as a Support, OR I can play it as an action not during Operations phase for 1 as well? Am I reading this correctly?

Various Snake Creature Icon Changing abilities (Brood of Yig, Winged Serpent etc) - If you can take actions between story struggles (earlier question) can Snakes change their icons after they've "used" the icon? For example, if Brood of Yig wins Terror Struggle, and causes someone to go insane, can I then change both Terror Icons into Combat to win the Combat as well?

Most Neutral Conspiracy Cards - Due to the updated revised ruling on Conspiracies, doesn't this make most of the neutral conspiracies (especially the Yuggoth Contract ones) nearly useless?

The Festival - Can someone give a detailed example of how to utilize this card? I am 99% sure I am doing it right, but it is a very unique card that can do alot, and want to make sure I've been playing it correctly. If so, it is indeed powerful!

Crazed Shogguth - When does the opponent commit him to a story? Active Priority player gets to choose when and what order?

Unorthodox Tactics - Yeah I am just confused on this one. Read it dozens of times. Done lots of web searches. It's weird. Someone tell me exactly what the hell this does please. I want to like this card, but it's very oddly written

Savio Corvi / Scotophobia - If an opponents' Savio special is active and it's Night, all characters he control gain Fast and 1 Terror Icon. If I use Scotophobia to remove all opponents printed Terror icons, since their bonus Terror Icon is not printed on THEIR card, they still have 1 Terror Icon, is this correct?

Stygian Eye - If this is played on a character with Terror Icons or Willpower, does its Forced Response ever resolve or do you basically just keep the attached character?

Again sorry for the massive novel, just really love the game and wanna make sure I'm doing things right. And man it feels like Hastur needs help.

Thanks folks!

#2
mnBroncos

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I am going to let a more experience player answer your questions because I am pretty new and don't want to give any false info. But I gotta say welcome to the game and so glad your out there and pushing the game and even getting a store championship that is amazing (: keep it going!

#3
dboeren

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Hopefully these are all correct answers :)


"Can you disrupt a disrupt, assuming all conditions met? Without a stack, and the 1 event resolved at a time, I am unsure of this works?"

Can you give an example? I think so, but it would be a rare situation.


"Transient Cards: When resourced, and the Domain is drained (not optional?) the card grants resources = to the faction icons printed on it, then is placed in the discard pile, correct?"

The transient card sits on the domain until you drain it. When you do, it gets discarded. Count the number of faction symbols to determine what the domain provides like usual. You may be over-thinking this one?


"If a character ability costs 2 to active (and doesn't involve exhausting) and I drain a domain for 4, can it be used twice as the resources are all being placed into the same effect, or is it always 1 domain drain for 1 effect, regardless of amount drained and where it's used? (not counting cards with overpay effects of course)"

No. One domain pays for one thing. You cannot combine them or split them.

"Is there a 2nd Operations phase (like 2nd Main Phase in Magic) after the Story phase? or does the end of the story phase lead right into End of Turn phase?"

There is no 2nd Operations phase. Look at the phase diagram in the rulebook, it shows everything you need to know.


"What can be done during the "End of Turn" phase? I haven't seen a card referencing this yet, and considering how responses work, it seems largely ignored. Want to make sure I'm not missing something"

​Normally nothing, there is no action window. A card could reference it, not sure if any do.

"Can character abilities still be used when the character is exhausted if exhausting is not part of the cost? IE: Cthulhu (R'yleh version) is exhausted after committing to a story, can I pay 3 to active his Sacrifice ability?
In the same vein, can a character like Dangerous Inmate go insane to trigger his effect after just being restored while still exhausted?"

Yes on both counts. You can use any ability you can pay for and if exhausting isn't part of the price then it doesn't matter if they are exhausted.



"I am aware Destroy and Sacrifice are not the same thing for triggering wording on certain cards, and I know something dying from wounds is considered Destroyed for resolution purposes, but what about "Discard from play"? (O'Bannion's Ledger) ? Is this its only special removal ability? I can't recall another card with this wording."

There are a few other cards that discard from play but not many. A card discarded from play is not Destroyed or Sacrificed.

"Character abilities that read "Pay 2" or similar with no icons listed can be paid with any faction or colorless resources correct?"

Correct.


"Do Terror Icons / Willpower prevent global non targeting effects?
IE: If a card says "All characters in play go insane" are Terror Icon and Will Power characters still immune?
I ask this because in Magic, Protection from Color abilities can be circumvented with non targeted effects.
Same for "Target Opponent must make a character he controls go insane" and the only character he has has Willpower or a Terror Icon, does he get to ignore the effect?"

They are still immune to global effects. In your second example, you would have to choose someone to go insane if you could, but if there were no eligible targets then you get off easy. Your opponent probably shouldn't have played that effect then :)



"Is the only way around this, to blank a text box (in case of Willpower) or Remove/Steal all Terror Icons from character?"

Yes. Or if there was a card that specifically said that it ignored Willpower/Terror.


"Things in the Ground only works around this because the cards in discard pile are considered blank unless its a "from discard pile" ability? Or is this a "must" wording issue? If so, would "Must Go Insane" ignore Willpower / Terror Icons? Or does that fall into the "Cannot" ruling?"

The icon protection doesn't kick in until the character is in play.


"Do any other cards ignore these rules like Things in the Ground? (If ya can't tell, been playing with Hastur and having a rough time)"

Not that I can think of at the moment.


"Only 1 Insane character can be restored during refresh phase, is this correct? I just recently found this, and found 1 of my rule printings doesn't say this."

Correct.


"Targeting an Insane character who is already insane has no effect correct?"

You cannot target an insane character to "go insane again", he's not an eligible target.


"Restoring an insane character always comes with the "cost" of exhausting them as well, correct? So in an odd scenario where an insane character is made "readied", when he is restored, he would re-exhaust?"

It's not a cost. Restoring makes a character transition from being insane to being exhausted, but you aren't actually paying anything to do it. There is no such thing as a ready insane character.


"Can an Insane Character be forced to commit to a story via an effect / spell as a blank 0 stat character?"

No.


"Can you equip an Insane Character? If so, does it fall off during Restore, or does the attachment only fall off a character when he goes insane?"

I'm not sure I've ever seen this question come up before, but I don't see anything that would prevent you from attaching a card to an insane character. As far as I can see they only fall off at the moment of going insane.


"Are all characters considered to be committed at the same time, or one at a time? (In references to responses available to opponent) If they are done one at a time for response, does that mean the opponent can only mess with them response wise before I select them for commitment?"

All characters from the same player commit simultaneously.



"If a character is uncommitted from a story, (assuming they are done one at a time) can he be recommitted elsewhere, or is that character's "commitment action" used up for that story phase?"

They cannot be re-committed because the time when they could have done so is past. You commit everyone simultaneously, so if someone is later uncommitted it is now too late to commit again.



"The Investigation Struggle is the only way to win a success token on an opponent turns during story phase, correct? (Barring all weird exception rule cards etc)"

Yes, barring card special abilities.



"There can only be 1 Conspiracy Card in play at a time. Is this for each player or in general? IE: Can both players have a Conspiracy out? If so, can they both have the same one out?"

One per player. Doesn't matter if they are the same or different.


"Can players take actions etc during struggle resolution? If so, is it standard back and forth response, priority goes to active player? (I've read some very conflicting info on that, we've been playing where all actions are done before struggles begin, and then let the whole thing just play out, not counting Forced Responses and "Use after Struggle resolves" type cards)"

Sounds like you're doing it correctly.


"If a character is uncommitted from a story via spell/ability etc, can a spell or ability recommit that same character?"

Yes.


"Prism of Many Views - Can you mill someone with this card mid draw step to prevent them from drawing a card you don't want them to have? If so, I am aware this does NOT steal his draw, and he would draw a replacement card."

If you can do so with a Disrupt. Otherwise there is no action window between the two draws.


"Prophecies - Is there a way to use / play these during your draw step? If you don't trigger it, do you just draw it back as one of your cards clogging your draw, or does it remain on top? I enjoy this mechanic but haven't been able to clarify how they work very well"

​Look at the phase diagram. You can play an Event either before you start drawing or after you draw the 2nd card. If you don't trigger it then it clogs your draw for next turn.

"Parallel Universe - I can play and attach this card for 1 as a Support, OR I can play it as an action not during Operations phase for 1 as well? Am I reading this correctly?"

You can play it either way. Normally there is no reason to play it in the Operations phase since you might benefit by waiting to see what your opponent will do.


"Various Snake Creature Icon Changing abilities (Brood of Yig, Winged Serpent etc) - If you can take actions between story struggles (earlier question) can Snakes change their icons after they've "used" the icon? For example, if Brood of Yig wins Terror Struggle, and causes someone to go insane, can I then change both Terror Icons into Combat to win the Combat as well?"

You can't take actions here anyway. If you could though, then this would be possible.


"Most Neutral Conspiracy Cards - Due to the updated revised ruling on Conspiracies, doesn't this make most of the neutral conspiracies (especially the Yuggoth Contract ones) nearly useless?"

You'll have to tell me what ruling you're talking about.


"The Festival - Can someone give a detailed example of how to utilize this card? I am 99% sure I am doing it right, but it is a very unique card that can do alot, and want to make sure I've been playing it correctly. If so, it is indeed powerful!"

Most commonly, you use The Festival to find another copy of The Festival and put it in one of your domains (discarding another resource). Then next turn you can discard the resourced "The Festival" to find the 3rd copy. As each copy hits the discard pile you can use its "from discard" ability to re-attach it to a domain. So, it's domain acceleration that happens gradually. Alternately, you can use it to enable a more rainbow-ish deck by fetching the right colors when you need them to alleviate resourcing issues.



"Crazed Shogguth - When does the opponent commit him to a story? Active Priority player gets to choose when and what order?"

Your opponent doesn't commit him. He merely chooses where YOU will commit him. All your characters still commit together.


"Unorthodox Tactics - Yeah I am just confused on this one. Read it dozens of times. Done lots of web searches. It's weird. Someone tell me exactly what the hell this does please. I want to like this card, but it's very oddly written."

Normally the story resolution goes: Terror, Combat, Arcane, Investigation, Skill. At this Conspiracy it goes: Skill, Terror, Combat, Arcane, Investigation. If you win the story on Skill (which goes first) you can skip any of the remaining struggles you want. It doesn't seem that complex, do I have the right card here?


"Savio Corvi / Scotophobia - If an opponents' Savio special is active and it's Night, all characters he control gain Fast and 1 Terror Icon. If I use Scotophobia to remove all opponents printed Terror icons, since their bonus Terror Icon is not printed on THEIR card, they still have 1 Terror Icon, is this correct?"

Right. That's the difference between "icons" and "printed icons".

"Stygian Eye - If this is played on a character with Terror Icons or Willpower, does its Forced Response ever resolve or do you basically just keep the attached character?"

You keep them.
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#4
arkhaminmate

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"Unorthodox Tactics - Yeah I am just confused on this one. Read it dozens of times. Done lots of web searches. It's weird. Someone tell me exactly what the hell this does please. I want to like this card, but it's very oddly written."

Normally the story resolution goes: Terror, Combat, Arcane, Investigation, Skill. At this Conspiracy it goes: Skill, Terror, Combat, Arcane, Investigation. If you win the story on Skill (which goes first) you can skip any of the remaining struggles you want. It doesn't seem that complex, do I have the right card here?



Well done dboeren for taking the time to answer all the questions !! You're a commendable man. I haven't read through them all yet and started at the bottom, so I'd just like to make a clarification on the above (of which I hope I am correct). It's important to distinguish between 'win' and 'succeed'. Only if you would get your 5th success token on this card through the Skill struggle can you then decide which struggles occur before you actually take the Story. Just in case BeldVanGuard was confused about this.

And JUST in case you haven't yet seen the FAQ which goes a long way in helping things to be understood, you can find it here (but by the looks of it you may already have this):

http://www.fantasyfl...ort/CoC-FAQ.pdf
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#5
arkhaminmate

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"Can you equip an Insane Character? If so, does it fall off during Restore, or does the attachment only fall off a character when he goes insane?"

I'm not sure I've ever seen this question come up before, but I don't see anything that would prevent you from attaching a card to an insane character. As far as I can see they only fall off at the moment of going insane.



Yes you may. For example you could Place Stygian Eye on an insane Character and take control of it. Had to ask Damon about this one. You could also place a Khopesh on one but you wouldn't gain the benefits of the Toughness +1 as it has no text box for this Keyword to go in.

#6
arkhaminmate

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"Can you disrupt a disrupt, assuming all conditions met? Without a stack, and the 1 event resolved at a time, I am unsure of this works?"

Can you give an example? I think so, but it would be a rare situation.


I also believe this is possible, for example Performance Artist disrupting another Performance Artists disrupt. I think that early in the game when Power Drain was really the only major Disrupt, it caused a mis-guided belief it wasn't possible that struggled on through the games expansion, because a Power Drain cannot disrupt a Power Drain (as this can only be used to Disrupt an Action or Response as per card text).

#7
BeldVanGuard

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Thank you for all the answers and replies. They are most appreciated. I know my wall of text certainly wasn't the most appealing post to read here heh.
I have a copy of the most recent FAQ and been scrounging forums for answers, but often this has led me to confusing or conflicting info, older rules, or finding folks who are just as confused as me. Ah the joys of learning a new card game. Plus being a Magic player I tend to overthink everything or start applying the stack rules, its a long hard habit to break.

Few replies


Hopefully these are all correct answers :)


"Can you disrupt a disrupt, assuming all conditions met? Without a stack, and the 1 event resolved at a time, I am unsure of this works?"

Can you give an example? I think so, but it would be a rare situation.

Arkhaminmate gave a good example, and it does look like it would work. Probably as close to "the stack" as this game gets. 1 Action, 2 Disrupts.

"Transient Cards: When resourced, and the Domain is drained (not optional?) the card grants resources = to the faction icons printed on it, then is placed in the discard pile, correct?"

The transient card sits on the domain until you drain it. When you do, it gets discarded. Count the number of faction symbols to determine what the domain provides like usual. You may be over-thinking this one?

No, that is what I was trying to type. Just wrote it poorly. I think I only own 2 or 3 transient cards, and all of them have 2 icons, so they'd be worth 2 resources + the rest of the domain then be discarded. Been playing them correctly then. Thank you :)

"Is there a 2nd Operations phase (like 2nd Main Phase in Magic) after the Story phase? or does the end of the story phase lead right into End of Turn phase?"

There is no 2nd Operations phase. Look at the phase diagram in the rulebook, it shows everything you need to know

Ok wanted to make sure. Have read some conflicting info in posts, this is how I've been playing


"What can be done during the "End of Turn" phase? I haven't seen a card referencing this yet, and considering how responses work, it seems largely ignored. Want to make sure I'm not missing something"

​Normally nothing, there is no action window. A card could reference it, not sure if any do.

There is an errata in the FAQ saying there should be an action window here, and it is missing from the manual and diagram (However it is in the CCG manual, weird) but as I mentioned, I've never seen anything utilize it. Think the only card I've used during it is The Syndicate Draw a card Support when you have less cards than opponent. Name evades me.


"Is the only way around this, to blank a text box (in case of Willpower) or Remove/Steal all Terror Icons from character?"

Yes. Or if there was a card that specifically said that it ignored Willpower/Terror.

Damn. Ok so yeah Hastur has some severe issues in many match ups, and not many factions can help him much with this. Rough. He better have the next box set coming to get him in line!

"Do any other cards ignore these rules like Things in the Ground? (If ya can't tell, been playing with Hastur and having a rough time)"

Not that I can think of at the moment.

Uroborus is the only one I've been able to find in my pile of cards. Same rulings seem to apply, card text overwrites rules and icons not active in the discard pile. Works for me!

"Restoring an insane character always comes with the "cost" of exhausting them as well, correct? So in an odd scenario where an insane character is made "readied", when he is restored, he would re-exhaust?"

It's not a cost. Restoring makes a character transition from being insane to being exhausted, but you aren't actually paying anything to do it. There is no such thing as a ready insane character.

Couldnt any card that says "Ready a character" be applied to an insane character? In this case, when they restore, they would be ready to go. Throughout the various manuals and FAQ's, the wording on restoring insane characters has been altered many times. This is what brought this question up.


"Can an Insane Character be forced to commit to a story via an effect / spell as a blank 0 stat character?"

No.

Can you point me to where this is written? I believe you, but the section under insane characters still points out they can be affected as any normal character, then lists the exceptions (wounding etc). That exception is not listed (unless I missed it)

"Prism of Many Views - Can you mill someone with this card mid draw step to prevent them from drawing a card you don't want them to have? If so, I am aware this does NOT steal his draw, and he would draw a replacement card."

If you can do so with a Disrupt. Otherwise there is no action window between the two draws.

It's not listed as a Disrupt, just Action, so nuts, that's my favorite thing about the card. And I been cheating. Whoops!


"Prophecies - Is there a way to use / play these during your draw step? If you don't trigger it, do you just draw it back as one of your cards clogging your draw, or does it remain on top? I enjoy this mechanic but haven't been able to clarify how they work very well"

​Look at the phase diagram. You can play an Event either before you start drawing or after you draw the 2nd card. If you don't trigger it then it clogs your draw for next turn.

Ok so if I wanted to use a Prophecy on my turn, I'd basically do it at the "End of Draw Phase" after drawing 2 cards? Awesome, thank you.


"Most Neutral Conspiracy Cards - Due to the updated revised ruling on Conspiracies, doesn't this make most of the neutral conspiracies (especially the Yuggoth Contract ones) nearly useless?"

You'll have to tell me what ruling you're talking about.

There are several topics I've seen on here of people questioning how Conspiracies work. Recent ruling from Damon is that whatever is printed on the Conspiracy effects both players. Normally this is fine, but many of the neutral conspiracies (mainly from Yuggoth Contract) seem to have been written with the idea that this isn't how they work. Because of this, it's rendered them mostly useless.

Behind the Door is the best example of this


"Crazed Shogguth - When does the opponent commit him to a story? Active Priority player gets to choose when and what order?"

Your opponent doesn't commit him. He merely chooses where YOU will commit him. All your characters still commit together.

So if I control Crazed Shogguth, can I choose to have opponent pick where he goes before the others or after? I'm aware they all commit together, but I mean from a setting up stage. Knowing where my opponent wants him before I choose to commit everyone else is far more helpful then I select all my commits giving my opponent an idea of what I'd like to go after.


"Unorthodox Tactics - Yeah I am just confused on this one. Read it dozens of times. Done lots of web searches. It's weird. Someone tell me exactly what the hell this does please. I want to like this card, but it's very oddly written."

Normally the story resolution goes: Terror, Combat, Arcane, Investigation, Skill. At this Conspiracy it goes: Skill, Terror, Combat, Arcane, Investigation. If you win the story on Skill (which goes first) you can skip any of the remaining struggles you want. It doesn't seem that complex, do I have the right card here?

Yes you do. Part of the confusion as mentioned by ArkhamInmate is "Win" versus "Succeed". This card feels like it should read "Succeed" but it reads win, drastically reducing the usefulness of it. There is 3 forum topics between here and FFG asking questions about this, and if it's written correctly. Wanted to confirm if anyone knew anything else on this.


Thanks again folks, it's most appreciated!

#8
dboeren

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"Damn. Ok so yeah Hastur has some severe issues in many match ups, and not many factions can help him much with this. Rough. He better have the next box set coming to get him in line!"

I think what you're saying then is that Terror by itself is not a viable strategy because too many things resist it and even if you pack some removal cards there are two separate things you might have to remove. This is true. But, it's the strategy that's bad, not the faction. With Hastur I suggest using more of the take-control cards, and they're starting to get more cards (Stygian Eye is one) that specifically have some sort of kicker against Terror/Willpower characters. Lunatics can be pretty cool, and they have some nice cancels too. I will agree that they're not particularly good at being a single-faction deck but they make a great component of a 2-faction deck.

"So if I control Crazed Shogguth, can I choose to have opponent pick where he goes before the others or after? I'm aware they all commit together, but I mean from a setting up stage. Knowing where my opponent wants him before I choose to commit everyone else is far more helpful then I select all my commits giving my opponent an idea of what I'd like to go after."

He chooses first, then you decide where everyone else is going.


"There are several topics I've seen on here of people questioning how Conspiracies work. Recent ruling from Damon is that whatever is printed on the Conspiracy effects both players. Normally this is fine, but many of the neutral conspiracies (mainly from Yuggoth Contract) seem to have been written with the idea that this isn't how they work. Because of this, it's rendered them mostly useless."

OK, I see what you're saying now. The ruling is actually not that new anymore but it is kind of confusing. Some conspiracies are affected more than others, but the poster-child ones are the ones that grant an icon to everyone at the story. Generally these benefit swarm decks so you might take them there. The most "useless" one is the one granting terror where even having a majority won't really get you anything since everyone will be immune to going insane. You could put in cards that key off winning struggles or whatnot but generally it's not going to end up being worth it. My feeling is that this one particular Conspiracy only exists because they were doing them as a series with one for each icon. Leaving it out would have left an obvious hole so they put it in.

Over the years, Conspiracies have been sort of under-used, but more recently there's been a push to try to bring them back both by releasing good Conspirator characters that get benefits from Conspiracies (or help find them) and by designing stronger Conspiracies, lower-cost Conspiracies (I don't know if I've ever seen anyone play a 2-cost Conspiracy before), or Conspiracies that were more "keyed" to a certain faction or strategy. In general it's been a good thing as Conspiracies are fun. A lot of the older ones seldom get used, but I do currently have a Polar deck made up using "Realm of Ice and Death" so it does happen sometimes.

"Unorthodox tactics…"

OK, I was just taking the card at face value rather than speculating on what it might have been :) Personally, I think that wording it as "succeed" would perhaps be too strong. Investigation factions would be able to completely ignore Terror/Combat at that story which would be pretty powerful.

#9
jasonconlon

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Restoring an insane character always comes with the "cost" of exhausting them as well, correct? So in an odd scenario where an insane character is made "readied", when he is restored, he would re-exhaust?

It's not a cost. Restoring makes a character transition from being insane to being exhausted, but you aren't actually paying anything to do it. There is no such thing as a ready insane character.

Couldnt any card that says "Ready a character" be applied to an insane character? In this case, when they restore, they would be ready to go. Throughout the various manuals and FAQ's, the wording on restoring insane characters has been altered many times. This is what brought this question up.

It doesn't work like that. As per the Frequently Asked Questions section of the FAQ, on page 21 --
Q: Can I ready Insane characters during my Refresh Phase?
A: No, Insane is a state like Ready and Exhausted. Insane characters that are not restored cannot be Ready or Exhausted.


Can an Insane Character be forced to commit to a story via an effect / spell as a blank 0 stat character?

No.

Can you point me to where this is written? I believe you, but the section under insane characters still points out they can be affected as any normal character, then lists the exceptions (wounding etc). That exception is not listed (unless I missed it)

This is covered in the core rules, in the Insanity section on page 14:
Insanity
When a character goes insane, it is flipped facedown and all cards attached to it are destroyed. If a wounded character, regardless of its Toughness, goes insane, it is immediately destroyed. Likewise, if an insane character is wounded, it is immediately destroyed.
Insane characters have the following statistics: 0-cost, 0-skill, no faction, no icons, no subtypes, and no text. An insane character cannot commit to a story and is never considered to be committed to a story.


#10
jasonconlon

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What can be done during the "End of Turn" phase? I haven't seen a card referencing this yet, and considering how responses work, it seems largely ignored. Want to make sure I'm not missing something

Normally nothing, there is no action window. A card could reference it, not sure if any do.

There is an errata in the FAQ saying there should be an action window here, and it is missing from the manual and diagram (However it is in the CCG manual, weird) but as I mentioned, I've never seen anything utilize it. Think the only card I've used during it is The Syndicate Draw a card Support when you have less cards than opponent. Name evades me.

Just to clarify, there's no such errata. The Timing Structure section in the FAQ clarifies that there is an End of Turn phase, but it is a framework action window and not an action window - meaning that you can't play any 'Action's then, only Disrupts, Forced Responses and potentially* Responses.
End of Turn vs. End of Story Phase
If the active player commits no characters to a story, the Story Phase ends immediately.
The End of the Turn is a separate phase that occurs after the Story Phase. The End of the Turn should have its own grey (non-interrupt) box in the timing flowchart.

So if you want to trigger your Gun Runner's Club (SoM) at the end of your opponent's turn and you fear they aren't going to commit to stories, then your last definite chance to trigger it's Action is in the first action window of the Story phase, which precedes the 'declare/decline attackers' step (i.e. the step where "You (active player) commit characters to stories - If the active player commits no characters to a story, the story phase ends immediately. Proceed to step 6: End of Turn").

*As per the FAQ's Timing Structure - Response Opportunities section:
"NOTE: There can be no Response actions triggered to “end of phase” effects resolving."
'End of turn' is essentially an 'end of phase' timing as well, so you can't play Response actions from "end of turn" effects resolving either.

#11
Phobos

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Hi,

can any1 tell me, how visitor from the spheres works with prophecy cards? Can I copy the respone effect of the prophecy? I know its conditional to trigger, but its not clean to me.

Really thanks!

#12
arkhaminmate

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I do believe that you can't. The important piece of text here is 'after an event card is played'. You actually play the card when you place it on top of your deck, and trigger it when the conditions are met, so there's nothing to copy when you are simply placing it on top of your deck by playing it.

Visitor from the Spheres is a VERY tricky card in that it also only copies the effect of the event card, not re-create the whole event for a second time (and please someone correct me if I'm wrong here). So for example Curse of the Stone is good to go and copies the discard, but something like Pushed into the Beyond is not because the effect was to push 'Character X' from play. Visitor from the Spheres doesn't allow you to copy it and push 'Character Y' from play also as this is an entirely different effect. Can someone please verify this judgement for me though.

#13
Phobos

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Thank you for the detailed answer! There is in CoC some really tough question (at least for me) between ability synergies. I came from different card games, and I'm new to this beautiful gem such called as CoC. Anyway... if anyone have any idea how to capilatize on the Visitor plz share /w me!(but I think this is a different post.:.).

With underwater deep respect!
P.

#14
Darkman

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arkham inmate, I believe you are correct, otherwise it would have stated that you choose any or other targets when copying the effect, just like Ipiutak or Walk the path, Visitor from the spheres is mainly used to copy your own played events, mostly not choosing character but rather things like discard from deck or hand, adding or removing succes tokens

#15
arkhaminmate

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No problems Phobos and thank you Darkman. Welcome to this beautiful gem such called as CoC !! You are most welcome and we are happy to answer any more questions you have. It is indeed a very complex system and we understand how confusing it can be for new players, so ask away !!

#16
BeldVanGuard

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Ok so doing more deck testing and eagerly awaiting Denizens of the Underworld (and a metric crap ton of new cards also, nearly caught up till the Feb reprints) and ran into some more questions / weird card issues, so once again I return to poke the think tank

Hermetic Seal -

I am 99% sure I understand what this can and cannot be used on, but we had some events come up the other day (Sibilant Cry being one I can recall atm) and I wasn't sure how this would work. Do events "Come into play?" for purposes of this card? I know it stops character come into play abilities, but can it work on anything else?
Any examples would be greatly appreciated

Lookout -

When can his ability be used? I'm aware it says "After a character enters play" but the fact that his text blanking ability seems useless during your operations phase makes me wonder if I'm thinking of his trigger properly. Can this be used ANY time after the character enters play that turn? Or is the text blanking more for "Pop in" characters like Black Dog etc.
Also since it's a response, not a disrupt, this blanking ability still will not stop come into play abilities correct? For example, if an opponent plays Victoria Glasser, She will get to target someone to make insane before I can exhaust her and blank her text box, is this correct?

The Guzheng-

It says attached characters skill is reduced to zero. If a character gains skill from an outside source (Altar of the Blessed, being a target of Tattoo Artist etc) does that still apply, or do they receive the bonus, then Guzheng's continuous effect reduce it back to 0?
Basic question but related to it's final resolving ability, characters uncommit (naturally) from stories once all active ones are resolved during story phase just before it ends correct?


The Thing Behind You-
His return a character to your hand come into play ability does NOT allow him to commit to stories in the case of him bouncing a character already committed to a story correct? I assume it must state this explicitly in order for it to work.
So, if I use him to bounce Victoria Glasser WHILE she is committed to a story, it does take her out, but he merely comes into play, after commits have been resolved, so he can't help the current stories. This is correct yes?

Kaleidoscope of Calyptra-

It says "Characters committed to the same story as this card that would go insane are instead wounded"
So, if someone possesses a Terror Icon or Willpower since they are not legal insanity targets, they still cannot be wounded correct? So this is NOT a way around a Terror Immune character, merely an effect replacement following all normal rules?

Expert Testimony -

I was hoping not to post about this card as there are so many posts and FAQ about it, but also lots of older conflicting info.
So,when you use this, it's effect replaces (thus eliminating) the struggle of your choice you disrupt, and then commits a Misk char to the story of choice, even if committed, long as it isn't the same story they were at. Is this correct so far?
Now, since technically all stories are resolved at once, but must be handled 1 at a time, can this card allow someone to be at both stories?
The only card I've ever seen that explicitly states this is Military Bike. Is that the only card capable of having 1 char "jump" stories and still count himself at others?
In regards to that question, can other chars with jumping abilities (Jiang Shi etc) Story Jump AND be at both via Military Bike style, or as soon as they leave, they cannot be counted at their original story, or if they have been counted at their original story, they cannot use the ability?
Very confused on how these work and since it's a very game changing ability either way, I want to make sure I understand and run them correctly.
Also, any examples of other cards like these would be greatly appreciated once I know wtf I'm doing

Thanks again in advance!

#17
dboeren

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Hermetic Seal: Event cards do not enter play, so it won't work on those. Mostly it's characters that it's meant for.

Lookout: Normally you use him in your opponent's Operations phase but he could be used anytime a character comes into play so he might be used say during Story phase when your opponent brings out a Master of the Myths. It does not stop come into play abilities because they have already happened by the time the Response can trigger. Black Dog would still be committed to the story, but he would lose Fast and Willpower so it helps somewhat.

Guzheng: Sets their skill to zero, it can still be modified by other effects. Correct, characters normally uncommit at the end of story phase, but they could uncommit earlier due to some effect like Kidnapping 101.

Thing Behind You: He just comes into play, he doesn't "replace" a character already in play. So no, he wouldn't come into play committed to a story regardless of whether the character you return to hand was committed or not.

Kaleidoscope of Calyptra: Terror and Willpower characters will not die because they wouldn't have gone insane.

Expert Testimony: No, it does not replace/eliminate a struggle because it doesn't say "instead". "When a struggle would resolve" just sets the timing of when the ability can trigger. Look at Kaleidoscope and see how the wording there says "instead" indicating a replacement effect. Yes, it could potentially let someone be at more than one story. So could Jiang Shi. There may be other ways too, it would take a while to search all the cards looking for them though. Stories do not resolve simultaneously, I think that's part of what's confusing you.

This page has more info on Expert Testimony if you need it:
http://community.fan...on-stone/page-4

#18
Danigral

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Hermetic Seal -

I am 99% sure I understand what this can and cannot be used on, but we had some events come up the other day (Sibilant Cry being one I can recall atm) and I wasn't sure how this would work. Do events "Come into play?" for purposes of this card? I know it stops character come into play abilities, but can it work on anything else?
Any examples would be greatly appreciated

Events are not considered to enter play. Characters mainly have the enters play abilities, but an example of a support is Lost City of Pnakotus (TKatG)

Lookout -

When can his ability be used? I'm aware it says "After a character enters play" but the fact that his text blanking ability seems useless during your operations phase makes me wonder if I'm thinking of his trigger properly. Can this be used ANY time after the character enters play that turn? Or is the text blanking more for "Pop in" characters like Black Dog etc.
Also since it's a response, not a disrupt, this blanking ability still will not stop come into play abilities correct? For example, if an opponent plays Victoria Glasser, She will get to target someone to make insane before I can exhaust her and blank her text box, is this correct?

Read HilariousPete's excellent article on timing and triggers. It's worth noting that for each player action (which includes playing a card from hand during operations), the player to the left (read: opponent) has first opportunity to respond. Which means that you can trigger Lookout on a Many-Angled Thing, for example, to blank it before the player who played it can trigger the response. The big 'but' is that it can't stop forced responses because they happen before responses in the timing. It is probably most helpful for toolbox characters that are mainly for reducing (like Arthur Todd or Priestess of Bubastis or Anthropology Advisor) or jumpers with keywords as you pointed out. Just to stress, it does kneel the character too, which is good if it's a big character

The Guzheng-

It says attached characters skill is reduced to zero. If a character gains skill from an outside source (Altar of the Blessed, being a target of Tattoo Artist etc) does that still apply, or do they receive the bonus, then Guzheng's continuous effect reduce it back to 0?
Basic question but related to it's final resolving ability, characters uncommit (naturally) from stories once all active ones are resolved during story phase just before it ends correct?

It's a passive that is constantly reducing skill to zero, no matter the buffs. And yes, it uncommits as part of the framework after all stories resolve.

The Thing Behind You-
His return a character to your hand come into play ability does NOT allow him to commit to stories in the case of him bouncing a character already committed to a story correct? I assume it must state this explicitly in order for it to work.
So, if I use him to bounce Victoria Glasser WHILE she is committed to a story, it does take her out, but he merely comes into play, after commits have been resolved, so he can't help the current stories. This is correct yes?

Correct.

Kaleidoscope of Calyptra-

It says "Characters committed to the same story as this card that would go insane are instead wounded"
So, if someone possesses a Terror Icon or Willpower since they are not legal insanity targets, they still cannot be wounded correct? So this is NOT a way around a Terror Immune character, merely an effect replacement following all normal rules?

Correct, it replaces the insanity effect, and since they would not go insane, this replacement effect would not wound them.

Expert Testimony -

I was hoping not to post about this card as there are so many posts and FAQ about it, but also lots of older conflicting info.
So,when you use this, it's effect replaces (thus eliminating) the struggle of your choice you disrupt, and then commits a Misk char to the story of choice, even if committed, long as it isn't the same story they were at. Is this correct so far?

Yeeeeeees...

Now, since technically all stories are resolved at once, but must be handled 1 at a time, can this card allow someone to be at both stories?
The only card I've ever seen that explicitly states this is Military Bike. Is that the only card capable of having 1 char "jump" stories and still count himself at others?
In regards to that question, can other chars with jumping abilities (Jiang Shi etc) Story Jump AND be at both via Military Bike style, or as soon as they leave, they cannot be counted at their original story, or if they have been counted at their original story, they cannot use the ability?
Very confused on how these work and since it's a very game changing ability either way, I want to make sure I understand and run them correctly.
Also, any examples of other cards like these would be greatly appreciated once I know wtf I'm doing

Although stories are resolved in the same framework action, they are still resolved one at a time, and disrupts can interrupt the normal resolution whenever the effect allows for it. You can trigger the disrupt after fully resolving one story. I.e. there is no "memory" of where a card was or was not, only where it is in the moment of story resolution. So you don't have to go back if Jiang Shi, or your MU expert, jump stories.

#19
Danigral

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Since dboeren and I are contradicting on Guzheng, let me clarify: the reason I think he reduces to 0 no matter the buffs is because it is constantly checking and does not reference the attached character's skill in any way. Take for example Called to the Sea (KD) which reduces strength by X where X is printed strength. This would not ignore strength buffs.

#20
Wilbur

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It's worth noting that for each player action (which includes playing a card from hand during operations), the player to the left (read: opponent) has first opportunity to respond.

The FAQ specifically states otherwise:

Any number of responses can be played in response to any occurrence that allows them to trigger, with response opportunities passing back and forth between players, starting with the active player.

Thus, on playing a card during one's own operations phase, only a disrupt will stop Many Angled Thing. My buddy Arkham has talked about Lookout shutting down Nodens, but I don't think it works. Lookout will shut down e.g. Magnus, but not a response to a card played by the active player.