Jump to content

Welcome to Card Game DB
Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to create topics, post replies to existing threads, give reputation to your fellow members, get your own private messenger, post status updates, manage your profile and so much more. If you already have an account, login here - otherwise create an account for free today!
Photo

New to CoC LCG, and old Magic player, lots of rules questions!

- - - - -

  • Please log in to reply
98 replies to this topic

#61
BeldVanGuard

BeldVanGuard

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 212 posts
I seem to be having the opposite issue. As I work on my decks, I end up having to cut the "must have" cards, tho I did find out my Syndicate deck is 90% similar to everyone else's so I'm a tad bummed about that. Hopefully new box set will help me mix it up.
Jamburg is awesome tho cmon =p

#62
Jan

Jan

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 145 posts

I seem to be having the opposite issue. As I work on my decks, I end up having to cut the "must have" cards, tho I did find out my Syndicate deck is 90% similar to everyone else's so I'm a tad bummed about that. Hopefully new box set will help me mix it up.
Jamburg is awesome tho cmon =p


There are so many interesting cards that deserve use! Just say no to your inner power-gamer. ;)

#63
HilariousPete

HilariousPete

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 32 posts

Also, as for Ipuitak and Sac Offerings, does that ruling from Damon apply if I'm the caster of it, not the opponent?
Im actually looking to use it to cause my own character's wounds (don't ask, I have a stupid idea, why I'm so concerned if this works or not)

Yes, it doesn't matter who's triggering the effect.
The 2 parts of the effect are not an effect on their own; and they're definitely not 2 triggered effects. (There's just 1 bold Action trigger in front of the whole effect, not 2 bold triggers in front of each part of the effect). So Ipiutak's requirement doesn't apply to Sacrificial Offerings.

#64
BeldVanGuard

BeldVanGuard

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 212 posts
Well......damn lol.
I need to find a list of wounding effects or multi wounding effect cards or something

#65
HilariousPete

HilariousPete

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 32 posts
There are some cards that do that... Feeding Frenzy, Khopesh, Catastrophic Explosion, ravager from the Deep, Hypothermia. Probably there are more...

#66
BeldVanGuard

BeldVanGuard

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 212 posts
Few new questions after some deck testing (with a new player who is loving the game, bonus!)

Tattoo Artist - She commits to a story, her ability activates, and I lower the skill of an opponent's character. If during the struggles (or an event) she goes insane or her text block is blanked, does the -2 skill go away? I am aware of the card memory rules, and I know "end of turn" etc style effects don't trigger because the blanked/insane card no longer says that, but this ability is already applied to a card in play and says till end of phase. Does the effect remain because it's "on a card" already, or is it negated soon as the Tattoo Artist is insane/blanked?

Stygian Eye / Charm Effect Cards - If the card doesn't explicitly say it readies the newly acquired character, if I steal an exhausted character I gain control of it exhausted correct? Seems like an obvious, but the more I've used Stygian Eye, I never seem able to take a character when it would be more optimal.

Khopesh of the Abyss - This has a "Then" wording. The equipped character must wound itself before it can target another creature. If I power drain or use another form of "counter" effect, can I do this after they wound themselves but before they target one of my characters to wound? If so, is the entire effect stopped, or can I only counter the second triggered effect, causing them a wound for nothing?
Unsure if its 2 effects count as 2 "triggers" for game purposes

Forced Responses - I understand Forced Responses are caused by the game, not the player, so a card saying it "stops a player triggered effect" works, but can a counter card that simply states "Triggered Effect" with no other condition wording stop a forced response?

Again seems obvious but want to confirm

Support Destruction: This one is a bit of an open catch all question, but as I am moving beyond basic deck construction and into more game planning versus other decks (still my own at the moment sadly) I am seeing how important Support Destruction is and how devastating certain support cards can be to certain decks. However I am finding the majority of factions have few or no support destruction (or just horrid options) and I haven't found a good way to check the deck builder on here for that type of card.

If anyone can recommend say, top 2 or 3 support destruction options per faction, I'd greatly appreciate it.

Thanks again!

#67
Danigral

Danigral

    Advanced Member

  • Small Council
  • 1358 posts

Tattoo Artist - She commits to a story, her ability activates, and I lower the skill of an opponent's character. If during the struggles (or an event) she goes insane or her text block is blanked, does the -2 skill go away? I am aware of the card memory rules, and I know "end of turn" etc style effects don't trigger because the blanked/insane card no longer says that, but this ability is already applied to a card in play and says till end of phase. Does the effect remain because it's "on a card" already, or is it negated soon as the Tattoo Artist is insane/blanked?

It is a lasting effect that remains in effect even if TA is blanked.

Stygian Eye / Charm Effect Cards - If the card doesn't explicitly say it readies the newly acquired character, if I steal an exhausted character I gain control of it exhausted correct? Seems like an obvious, but the more I've used Stygian Eye, I never seem able to take a character when it would be more optimal.

Yes, the state of the character does not change.

Khopesh of the Abyss - This has a "Then" wording. The equipped character must wound itself before it can target another creature. If I power drain or use another form of "counter" effect, can I do this after they wound themselves but before they target one of my characters to wound? If so, is the entire effect stopped, or can I only counter the second triggered effect, causing them a wound for nothing?
Unsure if its 2 effects count as 2 "triggers" for game purposes

Khopesh has been errata'ed to this:
Khopesh of the Abyss (F16)
Should read “Action: Wound attached character to choose a character. That character takes 1 wound.”
So wounding your own character is a cost, which if cancelled, cancels the effect as well.

Forced Responses - I understand Forced Responses are caused by the game, not the player, so a card saying it "stops a player triggered effect" works, but can a counter card that simply states "Triggered Effect" with no other condition wording stop a forced response?

Yes.

Support Destruction: This one is a bit of an open catch all question, but as I am moving beyond basic deck construction and into more game planning versus other decks (still my own at the moment sadly) I am seeing how important Support Destruction is and how devastating certain support cards can be to certain decks. However I am finding the majority of factions have few or no support destruction (or just horrid options) and I haven't found a good way to check the deck builder on here for that type of card.

I would recommend just typing "support" in the text search window. That will show you most of the cards that hit supports.

If anyone can recommend say, top 2 or 3 support destruction options per faction, I'd greatly appreciate it.

I think this is most if not all of the cards that hit supports, either destorying, exhausting, returning to hand, or taking them away from your opponent.

Character
Agency Groundskeeper (TTotT) x1
Arsene Renard (TKatG) x1
Cat Burglar (DotU) x1
Constricting Elder Thing (IotF) x1
Crazed Arsonist (WitD) x1
Displaced Cthonian (CoC) x1
Grasping Chthonian (IotF) x1
Lodge Housekeeper (TOotST) x1
Melisande LeBeau (DotU) x1
Repo Man (TAD) x1
The Dunwich Horror (DD) x1

Support
Burglar Tools (TKatG) x1
Cthaat Aquadingen (ER) x1
Dimensional Rift (SoA) x1
Ritual of Inferno (TWC) x1
The Seventh House on the Left (KD) x1

Event
Burrowing Beneath (Core) x1
Calling the Williwaw (TKatG) x1
Deep One Assault (Core) x1
Dhole Attack! (ItDoN) x1
Hanyatl's 1:9 (SoK) x1
Immurement (DotU) x1
Magnetic Spike (NN) x1
Out of Season Monsoon (SotM) x1
Political Demonstration (Core) x1
Sinkhole! (TWC) x1
Thunder in the East (KD) x1
Torch the Joint (SoM) x1
Get it Off! (Core) x1
Dragged into the Deep (WoP) x1

Conspiracy
The R'lyeh Conspiracy (CoC) x1
  • Jhaelen and jasonconlon like this

#68
BeldVanGuard

BeldVanGuard

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 212 posts
I'm back to tooling around with Unorthodox Tactics again (Conspiracy) and I need some clarification.

It makes the Skill Check occur before all Struggles. From what I can read, the game term "Succeed" at a story is ONLY based around the Skill Check.
Therefor, if I commit characters that have a "Succeed at Story" condition, I can trigger them immediately after the success check before all Struggles occur, is this correct?

Thanks as always, and is anyone on here playing at Epic Loot in OH this month? I think I'll be able to make it, be nice to meet someone from on here while there

#69
dboeren

dboeren

    Advanced Member

  • Contributor
  • PipPipPip
  • 2834 posts
Yes, "succeed" basically means "the active player has won the skill check". So whenever that happens you have succeeded. Now, whether you can trigger those conditions immediately or whether you have to wait would depend on the type of ability. Is this a Response, Forced Response, or Disrupt? The normal rules about what can and can't interrupt story resolution still apply as normal.

#70
Saint7x

Saint7x

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 265 posts
I have a question about Er'nrawr (Ancient One, Neutral). His one major caveat reads:

"At the beginning of a player's turn, that player must wound a character he controls or drain one of his domains."

Assuming that I don't want to wound any of my characters, I have no choice but to follow the latter.

The way I interpret this rule is that I essentially have to leave at least one of my domains open during my turn because at the beginning of my next turn, Er'nrawr demands that I drain a domain. Did I understand that correctly? Or could I meet this demand by refreshing my domains but leaving one of them drained? (It's a little confusing in my head).

#71
BeldVanGuard

BeldVanGuard

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 212 posts

Yes, "succeed" basically means "the active player has won the skill check". So whenever that happens you have succeeded. Now, whether you can trigger those conditions immediately or whether you have to wait would depend on the type of ability. Is this a Response, Forced Response, or Disrupt? The normal rules about what can and can't interrupt story resolution still apply as normal.


Interesting issue I didn't think of. Forced Response and Disrupt would be allowed, but a Response wouldn't until all struggles are over. So for example, one of the cards I'm looking at is Clover Club High Roller.

Since his is a response, he could not trigger until all struggles resolve, correct?
Would he still be able to trigger his ability with Unorthodox Tactics then at all?

#72
BeldVanGuard

BeldVanGuard

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 212 posts

I have a question about Er'nrawr (Ancient One, Neutral). His one major caveat reads:

"At the beginning of a player's turn, that player must wound a character he controls or drain one of his domains."

Assuming that I don't want to wound any of my characters, I have no choice but to follow the latter.

The way I interpret this rule is that I essentially have to leave at least one of my domains open during my turn because at the beginning of my next turn, Er'nrawr demands that I drain a domain. Did I understand that correctly? Or could I meet this demand by refreshing my domains but leaving one of the drained? (It's a little confusing in my head).


Yaknow I never really looked at him that close, but you're right the timing wording on him is a little odd. Beginning of turn would be before refresh phase. So if you were tapped out, you'd have to wound something. So in essence, you are denied 1 domain. I think you're playing this right, and I've been playing him wrong heh.

I'd defer to one of the more experienced players here, but after looking at him and toying around with some other beginning of the turn stuff (learned today the hard way I can't use Gold Pocket Watch to trigger La Bella Luna heh) that does sound correct
  • Saint7x likes this

#73
BeldVanGuard

BeldVanGuard

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 212 posts
Timing Issue / Response Question. I think I'm overthinking this one due to MTG habits

Wandering Tinkerer and Want Ads

Does Want Ads fail to trigger since the disrupt moved Want Ads BEFORE char would leave play, and is now on an new char, or does the Forced Response still trigger from the old card after the disrupt?

#74
jasonconlon

jasonconlon

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 299 posts
Wandering Tinker reads: "Disrupt: When a character would leave play, exhaust Wandering Tinker to choose a non-Relic support card attached to that character. Take control of that attachment and move it to another character."

Want Ads reads: "Attach to an opponent's character.
Forced Response: After attached character is put into its owner's discard pile, draw 2 cards.


Wandering Tinker's 'Disrupt' triggers just before the character leaves play, so Want Ads would not be attached at the time its current character enters the discard pile to trigger.

On a side note, Want Ads seems to me to have an oddly timed trigger. It's my understanding that when a card leaves play, the attachment is immediately destroyed - that it is no longer attached when the card that it was previously attached to leaves play.
As per the rules: "Cards that are attached to another card (most often support cards) are immediately destroyed (put into the discard pile) if the card they are attached to leaves play for any reason."
This should mean that Want Ads could NEVER trigger... but I assume a golden rule applies to somehow break this rule and permit the trigger.

#75
BeldVanGuard

BeldVanGuard

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 212 posts

Wandering Tinker reads: "Disrupt: When a character would leave play, exhaust Wandering Tinker to choose a non-Relic support card attached to that character. Take control of that attachment and move it to another character."

Want Ads reads: "Attach to an opponent's character.
Forced Response: After attached character is put into its owner's discard pile, draw 2 cards.


Wandering Tinker's 'Disrupt' triggers just before the character leaves play, so Want Ads would not be attached at the time its current character enters the discard pile to trigger.

On a side note, Want Ads seems to me to have an oddly timed trigger. It's my understanding that when a card leaves play, the attachment is immediately destroyed - that it is no longer attached when the card that it was previously attached to leaves play.
As per the rules: "Cards that are attached to another card (most often support cards) are immediately destroyed (put into the discard pile) if the card they are attached to leaves play for any reason."
This should mean that Want Ads could NEVER trigger... but I assume a golden rule applies to somehow break this rule and permit the trigger.


Yeah that was kind of my issue. I'm trying to toy around with Tinkerer and the various Syndicate Attachments, and I'm finding many of them have "issues" with regards to if it will trigger or not. This one stood out the most, and as you pointed out, technically it won't trigger at all,

Most of the cards I'm looking at, since it's a Disrupt and worded as "when a character would leave play" if I used the Tinker it would remove the Attachment causing the removal, and then voiding the whole point. It's very frustrating!

Just wanted to make sure I was reading this correctly, and seems I am, but Golden Rule VS card wording, don't wanna risk making a deck idea around it =/

#76
BeldVanGuard

BeldVanGuard

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 212 posts
So new one, battle of "Cannot" abilities

Will of Azathoth says Attach to Story, characters cannot commit to this story.

Negotium Says Characters Printed Cost 2 or Lower cannot commit to any story other than this one

So if Will of Azathoth is on Negotium, can no Cost 2 characters go to any story at all?

#77
jasonconlon

jasonconlon

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 299 posts
That's correct - Negotium Perambulans in Tenebris combined with Will of Azathoth is a neat trick to lock out low cost characters from committing to any stories.

Another fun combo to keep out ALL your opponent's characters from committing to a story is Binding Worm ("Characters cannot commit to stories alone.") plus Arkham Inmate ("Action: Drive Arkham Inmate insane. Response: After Arkham Inmate is restored, choose a story. Until the end of the turn, opponents cannot commit more than 1 character to that story."); and if you combine this with Arkham Asylum ("Action: Pay 1 to choose an insane character. Restore and ready that character.") then you could potentially lock out more than one story.
  • Danigral and BeldVanGuard like this

#78
Danigral

Danigral

    Advanced Member

  • Small Council
  • 1358 posts

So new one, battle of "Cannot" abilities

Will of Azathoth says Attach to Story, characters cannot commit to this story.

Negotium Says Characters Printed Cost 2 or Lower cannot commit to any story other than this one

So if Will of Azathoth is on Negotium, can no Cost 2 characters go to any story at all?

In this case they are mutually exclusive, so there is no conflict. Both would happen and as jason said prevent any 2 cost and lower characters from committing. Only when "cannot" abilities directly conflict does the first player decide the resolution.
  • BeldVanGuard likes this

#79
BeldVanGuard

BeldVanGuard

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 212 posts
Ah awesome. Nice to know I was doing that correctly then heh.
Whats funny is I even tried that binding worm / inmate combo too before I switched red out of a control deck.

Thanks kindly folks

Now if I can just find a way to use Tinkerer on Syndicate aggressive supports......damnit
  • jasonconlon likes this

#80
BeldVanGuard

BeldVanGuard

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 212 posts
Few new questions from me and some of my newer players I wanted to confirm

Savio Corvi. Ok so this guy is a jerk with conspiracies out. You MUST have a day card or card effect to hurt him.
So that leaves me with 2 questions

1: What determines EXACTLY what is a day card? We've been going off of "Day. It is Day" as the requirement. Cards that get boosted by Day effects are not day cards. Is this correct? So basically you gotta force them to sacrifice him indirectly or play a global kill all Day card. Is this correct?

On that note, question 2: I've seen several references to "If a card effect destroys this card" and that the Combat Struggle DOES trigger effects like this. Does that mean Savio cannot be wounded in a combat struggle if it isn't a day card? As the only character I'm aware of with this power (many supports have it) this seems incredibly powerful and difficult to play around, and I want to make sure I'm not missing anything

Mists of Lethe: Does this follow the "Military Bike" rules, where it can only commit to stories where other characters are at, or does this allow game break rules like Noises in the Hills?

Visitor from the Spheres; I understand the "problem" with his effect is it is an exact copy. IE: No new targets etc, but you can use it to double up effects correct? In most examples I've seen with this card (ArkhamInmate had a non violating mill deck based off it) but if I were to cast say, Casting off the Skin, then activate Visitor, that would automatically target the same guy, and double the effect on him? I'm aware X cards become zero but want to make sure I'm using this card properly when it comes to buffs, global effects etc.

Card Memory and 'Once Per Turn" - As I'm learning the true terror of Yithian Mill played correctly, I want to make sure I understand the card memory rules. Simple example. I have 3 Yithian Scouts in my discard pile, I trigger all 3, and amazingly, all 3 get non characters and return to play. I then kill them all again in the same turn. You and I know they've all been used, but moving in and out of play zone does NOT reset this correct?

Stone Calendar: From what I can see, this is one of the only cards referring to success tokens not specifying or errated to "Story" success tokens. So this can indeed mill tokens off of Fated creatures etc, correct?

Station Eismitte: Explorer and Scientist Characters are immune to triggered character abilites. Does this include their own negative effects? For example, Reckless Elder Thing says "Forced Response; when this character commits to a story, wound it"
He is a scientist and it's a triggered character effect, so he no longer wounds himself?

Triggered Effects from Discard: Yeah yeah I know, ANOTHER one of these questions. When the card is triggered, this bypass ALL costs of the card correct? For example, Flanking Manuevers says Exhaust 2 Characters with C icons. Is this part ignored when triggered by say, Naomi O'bannion?

Temporal Slip: I know this card was discussed a few weeks back, but I was unable to find the post. It's written weird, and breaks lots of rules. Just need a 100% "How the hell does this work?"
We've been playing as "AFTER a struggle of your choice occurs at a story and resolves fully, name any icon struggle in the game (not nessacarily at that story) and you get the "Win" effects of that struggle. You then continue down the line as normal. So for example on a standard story, Terror goes off, I win, they make a character insane. I then temporal slip, declare combat, they suffer a wound as if they lost a combat struggle, we then proceed to the next actual combat struggle. Am I doing this wrong? If so, please explain. This card can be read so many ways, and my English may be getting in the way again heh
On that note, if I were to use Visitor of the Spheres ability / question I asked above, this would fully copy it to it's extent, even the chosen struggle trigger yes?

Hand of Aforgomon: All chars are considered to have 0 skill at that story. Considered is a terrible word in a game like this, and yes I saw the new errata update on him in the FAQ. So he basically says "All characters at the same story as him as Skill 0, as an absolute, much like Guzheng. Now, if he has O'Bannion's Ledger attached, this will discard everyone from play where he is committed yes? If he safe from this effect or does the book take him out as well?

Cards that can effect stories / conspiracies: With Negotium going to be a bit more popular, and recently learning how deadly a well played Mages Machinations can be (Jim, Scott and Jeff all made me fear that card at our Store Championships) I'd like to have a list of all cards that can "deal" with these major problems, and very few cards can interact with story cards.

Foiled, neutral attachment, blanks text of story
Frozen time, Blanks any attached card
Dragged into the Deep: Send any non unique card to the bottom of owners deck

Is there anything else I'm missing? I feel like this type of card will be much more needed for a while for obvious reasons.

Blackball Jim: If the opponent's domains are all drained, does the ability auto succeed or auto fail?

Ambush: Nightmare of a card wording wise. We golding ruling this? Lets you play a character cost 3 or less as an event, but still keeps "Played from your hand" effects triggering, then its sac'ed at end? Anything other than this the card seems like a gross misprint or waste of a card

Draining Domains: Draining a domain is NOT an action that opens a response window correct? We've learned a come into play ability response has an action window to being played (as playing a card is an action, thus opening a response, see the Lookout / Nodens discussion) but draining a domain is NOT something you can respond too, correct?

Think that's all for now, as always, sorry for the spam and thanks in advance. Having a blast teaching new people, and can handle most of the questions, but these oddballs come up and like to confirm

Cheers!