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Next FAQ?

- - - - - FAQ Bloodthirst Old Way

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346 replies to this topic

#1
Holubaloo

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Ok, so I know there are already a bunch of FAQ-related topics, but I have a question that relates to all of them:

What is it, exactly, that we're all expecting the new FAQ to do?

People are complaining about the current meta. Sure. They're ALWAYS doing that, no matter WHAT the current dominant decks are.
Specifically, people are mad at Bloodthirst and Old Way, right? Well how's FFG gonna fix those decks with an FAQ? Restricting Old Way doesn't do anything (I think the current restricted card of choice there is Negotiations, but it's not super necessary to the deck; between Iron Victory, the Reader and the new River stuff you have other ways of refilling your hand). Meanwhile, restricting Bloodthirst just seems unfair. What, are we just gonna restrict every Martell card?

Another question: does the current meta need to be "fixed" with an FAQ? Restricting cards that just came out seems crazy. These cards are probably working exactly like FFG wanted them to (they've certainly downplayed the dominance of Lanni no agenda, for one, which people were complaining about a month ago), so I don't know if erratas are the thing to do either. And if they're NOT working the way FFG wanted them to, then there are more serious problems with FFG's development/testing system.

My take? Every time a deck becomes dominant, we expect the FAQ to nerf it. I bet there are decks coming down the line (crazy Defiance or Dark Wings decks) that will be able to beat Old Way and Bloodthirst just as those decks beat Lanni no agenda. I think FFG is shifting away from using the FAQ as a silver bullet, and good for them. Instead, they're using new cards to keep the meta constantly cycling.

Is the game in the midst of a power creep? Sure. But Game of Thrones is the fourth or fifth card game I've played, each from a different company, and all those games underwent power creep at some point. That's just how it is. It kinda sucks, but it's also kind of inevitable, and it's not the end of the world.

Then again, maybe I'm missing some FAQ related possibility.

#2
jstrong77

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I don't think there's an issue with The Old Way. It's BT and KotHH that seem to be generating the most restriction fervor.

BT because it's just so damn boring to play with/against. KotHH because the last cycle has offered any cards that are a benefit to KotHH's "drawback"--no setup.

FAQ updates should help encourage parity amongst the houses and support a positive play experience for each house (IMHBAO). That's what I'm expecting from the next FAQ!
  • erocklawell likes this

#3
Jensen22

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I think we can all agree, that there are some decks running around that are very hard to counter. That being said we are 1 CP into Conquest and Defiance, yeah we have seen a handful of future spoilers that are on their way, and at first glance none of those appear to hold the answer to what we are currently experiencing. So everyone's jump off the cliff mentality seems a little premature in my opinion. Now if prized doesn't balance as well as the development team had planned we could be in a very tough situation, and the FAQ might be the only rescue.

Lets remember this is a LIVING CARD GAME. It will continually change, whats all the rage today will fade away before you know it. The deck you are playing now, I will almost guarantee won't be what your playing come worlds. I find it hard to imagine that the Development team will let the game get completely away from its base mechanics and core fundamental design for a long period of time.

#4
rlx

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BT because it's just so damn boring to play with/against.

What?
All the games I have played with or against BT against serious opponent, belong to the most fun games I have ever had in this game, nearly Star Wars CCG level of depths.

Just put every prized card on the restricted list, TWICE, those are dumb and will hurt the game like maintenance cards did for the Star Wars CCG.
  • kuvnynto likes this

#5
Abyssalfury

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Most issues are with heavy control builds that limit or remove a lot of the game - eg, decks that can repeatedly sweep the board all day long, or easily kill/kneel/bounce etc all your characters, completely skewing the concept of board position. And generally, these decks currently have the recursion and additional resources (eg draw from Bloodthirst, gold/influence from KOTHH) to maintain a lock on board position.

Meanwhile, most aggro decks aren't in a great place, and can't keep up with heavy control decks. This also inherently hurts some houses, namely Greyjoy and Stark. And it's been like that for a while, it's not really the kind of thing that is likely to suddenly be fixed in a couple of chapter packs. The inherent problems will still be there.

That seems to be what most people want - restrictions that will cut down on the overall power and dominance of control decks. It's not necessarily hating on a card like Bloodthirst, but the play style it enables. Though I'm sure everyone's got their own specific cards they feel should be restricted.

(Pretty sure no one is hating on The Old Way though....)
  • kuvnynto likes this

#6
wrzos

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I agree with rlx - Bloodthirst is FUN! :)

#7
FedericoFasullo

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rlx, a noob you are. The dark side forget you have to.

#8
lmsndrs

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The general consensus for BT is that for your average player, it's fine to play with/against. But some of the decks that the more serious players out there have managed to throw together to use in tournaments, which a lot of people are also using on Octgn right now, can make games ridiculously long and just use some very annoying tech that a lot of people feel shouldn't even be in the game. Personally, I don't mind BT as much as I mind KOTHH decks, whilst BT can be slow, I sort of like that, whilst I get it's subjective. KOTHH, on the other hand, is just plain overpowered, or at least it is in my meta.

#9
ScionMattly

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My worst experience was playing Bara KoTHH recrusion recently. When the entire table has to fight you in a melee game and you still win, I think something might need to be done.

See Who is Stronger was the big stinker, there.
  • kuvnynto likes this

#10
Holubaloo

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Meanwhile, most aggro decks aren't in a great place, and can't keep up with heavy control decks. This also inherently hurts some houses, namely Greyjoy and Stark. And it's been like that for a while, it's not really the kind of thing that is likely to suddenly be fixed in a couple of chapter packs. The inherent problems will still be there.

That seems to be what most people want - restrictions that will cut down on the overall power and dominance of control decks. It's not necessarily hating on a card like Bloodthirst, but the play style it enables. Though I'm sure everyone's got their own specific cards they feel should be restricted.

(Pretty sure no one is hating on The Old Way though....)


I appreciate your comments! Unfortunately they just leave me with more questions.

People are complaining about the current strength of control over aggro. Sure. Remember last spring/summer, when TLV made aggro decks really strong, and everybody was complaining about THAT? On a basic level, I'm kind of tired of hearing people complain about whatever the top deck happens to be at the moment. Since the meta seems to swing like a pendulum between the two types, I'm not sure it's a problem when one of them happens to be stronger than the other at any given moment.

"Restrictions that will cut down on the overall power and dominance of control decks"? How on earth do you do that? Haven't control decks almost always been the top deck in Thrones? If, as you said, this is "an inherent problem" that can't be fixed by subsequent chapter packs, how could one FAQ fix it? No one seems to know, even though they keep asking for this new FAQ to work miracles. The reason I'm so confused now is because I remember last spring, during the reign of TLV, people knew what needed to be done in the FAQ: Negotiations needed to be restricted and TLV had to be errata'd in some way. But all I hear now is people waiting for the FAQ to fix these decks without offering specific suggestions .

I'm also not sure FFG would see the current meta as a problem. Both Bloodthirst and Bara HH seem like decks FFG has been wanting players to build, with all the recent recursion they've given Bara and the Martell no character stuff (chars who give you bonuses when they die, things that benefit you for having fewer chars, etc.) How/why would they change those decks now, just because they turned out to be powerful?

I mentioned Old Way because I was addressing power creep complaints; I know from my personal playing experience with it that it is much more powerful than almost any other non-KOTHH, non-BT deck right now. It is easily the strongest Greyjoy deck I have ever seen, outside of TLV. And since it doesn't really play that many characters, I'd kind of lump it in with BT/KOTHH in terms of denying a basic mechanic of the game. I'm glad people aren't complaining about it that much though, cause I sure do love playing it!
  • Omek likes this

#11
dcdennis

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Humidity is rising
Barometer's getting low
According to our sources
The street's the place to go

Cause' tonight for the first time
Just about half past ten
For the first time in history
It's gonna start raining men

It's raining men
Hallejulah
It's raining men
Amen

It's raining men
Hallejulah
It's raining men
Amen

Humidity is rising
Barometer's getting low
According to our sources
The street's the place to go

Cause' tonight for the first time
Just about half past ten
For the first time in history
It's gonna start rainin men

It's raining men
Hallejulah
It's raining men
Amen

I'm gonna go out
I'm gonna let myself get
Absolutley soaking wet

It's rainin men
Hallejulah
It's raining men
Every special men

Tall blonde dark and lean
Rough and tough and strong and mean

God bless Mother Nature
She's a single woman too
She took over heaven
And she did what she had to do

She fought every Angel
To rearranged the sky
So that each and every woman
Could find the perfect guy

It's raining men

Don't get yourself Weather Girls
I know you want to

I feel stormy wheather moving in
About to begin
Hear the thunder
Don't you loose your head
Rip off the roof and stay in bed
(Rip off the roof and stay)

It's raining men
Hallejulah
It's raining men
Amen

It's raining men
Hallejulah
It's raining men
Amen

It's raining men
Hallejulah
It's raining men
Amen

It's raining men
Hallejulah
It's raining men
Amen

It's raining men
It's raining men
It's raining men


  • WWDrakey, dcdennis, hop and 4 others like this

#12
OKTarg

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What I want to see the FAQ do:

1. turn the game back towards emphasizing challenges in some way
2. even the playing field so that more than a few decks have a chance to win (admittedly this is already the case largely, but glance at recent tourney stats and you'll see a few are rising over their competition)
3. address a few cards that turned out to be more powerful than expected (for example, Bloodthirst)

Some ways to achieve this include restricting or errating KotHH, Westeros Bleeds, Red Keep, Favorable Ground, Prince's Plans, errat Burning on the Sands to Deathbound, restrict Blessed by the Maiden, errat BT to read "if you control at least one character....." etc.

We'll see what they do.

PS: TLV homogenized the meta and that wasn't great, but Bloodthirst has sucked the life out of the meta, and that's worse :(
  • scantrell24, NorthMaester and Holubaloo like this

#13
ScionMattly

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Basically seems like a lot of people feel very little needs to actually be changed to alter the meta from "strangehold by control deck" to "perfectly acceptable.

Actually, it sounds like if you made Westeros Bleeds and Favorable Ground Deathbound, or restricted, you might go a long way to it wouldn't you? Force a BT/KotHH player to think about whether its more important for him to control characters or control locations.
  • NorthMaester likes this

#14
Holubaloo

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Ah yes now I see, OKTarg. Those would be good fixes.

dcdennis...wtf?

#15
Ratatoskr

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People are complaining about the current strength of control over aggro.

You've heard it here first: Heavy Aggro with River plots and no Valar is the next big thing. It'll make TLV look like a kindergarten costume party.
  • scantrell24, tehkernel, kizerman86 and 3 others like this

#16
OKTarg

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You've heard it here first: Heavy Aggro with River plots and no Valar is the next big thing. It'll make TLV look like a kindergarten costume party.

First? ;)

One thing holding the River Aggro deck back is the low claim and low gold. But yeah, they will be a good archetype. And, to me, that's good!
  • PulseGlazer likes this

#17
Ratatoskr

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First? ;)

OK, *I've* heard it here first. ;)
  • OKTarg likes this

#18
Vaapad

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.

dcdennis...wtf?


We've all been asking that question for years, to no avail.
  • erocklawell, tehkernel, PulseGlazer and 1 other like this

#19
Bomb

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dcdennis...wtf?


What is that smell?

Walking through the plant today, scooping up what gets away
It's poo poo, poo poo
Something's smelling pretty ripe, coming from that sewer pipe
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S.HIT MAN!
Come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on
S.hit
He's got poo poo



#20
divinityofnumber

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