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Help Maureen to rock out with her skill out

- - - - - coc lcg ffg MaureendeGarmeaux clone copy skill maureen

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15 replies to this topic

#1
Ayjona

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Yesterday, I had the great displeasure of running up against the O’Bannon Inner Council with five criminal henchmen at his side. And without any other counters (to a skill 7 character that invalidates the icons of any with less skill than him) in hand at the pivotal point in the game, this question became the determinator of which player would win the last story:
 
When Maureen de Garmeaux copies another character’s skill, does she copy the printed skill, or the actual skill? 
 
Her text reads neither “printed skill” nor “current skill”, etc, just “Maureen de Garmeaux gains the skill, icons, and text box of that character until the end of the phase.”
 
Since this is the standard of most card games, I assume it is only the printed skill which is cloned (and has thus resigned my self to the loss of an epic game ;) ), but I would certainly not be surprised if it is the other way around. CoC has surprised me before with dynamic implementations of classic mechanics. 


#2
orso

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She copies/gains the skill (whatever the value is at the moment she copies it). Not just the printed.

If the character (she copied the skill from) is manipulated afterwards, it is not relevant for her. She remains the skill value she already got.


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#3
Ayjona

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Delightful! Not only because it means I won that Ben Hur of a game, but because I prefer the mechanic this way.

 

Thanks for the info!



#4
dboeren

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Anytime it doesn't specifically say "printed" it means the current value.


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#5
Ayjona

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Anytime it doesn't specifically say "printed" it means the current value.

Refreshingly logical.



#6
Zephyr

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Anytime anything refers to "printed" it means the value printed on the card. Syndicate card Like A Moth sets printed skill to 0, but apart from such weird exceptions this there is no way to modify printed value. (Insane characters or characters that aren't normal characters like Guardian Pillar have no printed value at all, it is not greater, lower, same as, etc any other number)

Printed value is base value for actual value, but any effect that doesn't explicitly mention printed uses current value including all modifiers, etc.

 

Numerical modifiers normally sum up in any order, then are set to result (minimum 0).
Maureen de Garmeaux gains skill, so she will have +X where X is skill of the character she chose at the moment she chose it. (usually X+1)

 

There are also cards that set skill like Palpable Unhappiness, it will set skill to 0, negating base printed value and any modifiers, but it works only for stuff that was already there when card was played, any new modifiers can change skill after Unhapiness resolves (AFAIK).

There are many ways to lose sanity trying to understand CoC rulings, and Hastur loves to lough at puny human logic :)


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#7
Danigral

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Anytime anything refers to "printed" it means the value printed on the card. Syndicate card Like A Moth sets printed skill to 0, but apart from such weird exceptions this there is no way to modify printed value. (Insane characters or characters that aren't normal characters like Guardian Pillar have no printed value at all, it is not greater, lower, same as, etc any other number)

Printed value is base value for actual value, but any effect that doesn't explicitly mention printed uses current value including all modifiers, etc.

 

Numerical modifiers normally sum up in any order, then are set to result (minimum 0).
Maureen de Garmeaux gains skill, so she will have +X where X is skill of the character she chose at the moment she chose it. (usually X+1)

 

There are also cards that set skill like Palpable Unhappiness, it will set skill to 0, negating base printed value and any modifiers, but it works only for stuff that was already there when card was played, any new modifiers can change skill after Unhapiness resolves (AFAIK).

There are many ways to lose sanity trying to understand CoC rulings, and Hastur loves to lough at puny human logic :)

 

Damon confirmed for me that Like a Moth is merely poor wording and does not actually change a character's printed skill (which is impossible since you can't change the print on the card). A more accurate wording, he said, would be "that character gets -X skill where X is its printed skill." Which is a travesty to me since that is terribly uninteresting. :-/



#8
Zephyr

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Is it adressed in the FAQ or something? As its quite huge errata concerning all cards that refer to printed skill.



#9
dboeren

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As far as I know Like a Moth is the only card that attempts to modify printed skill so I'm not sure anything else would be affected.


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#10
orso

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Damon confirmed for me that Like a Moth is merely poor wording and does not actually change a character's printed skill (which is impossible since you can't change the print on the card). A more accurate wording, he said, would be "that character gets -X skill where X is its printed skill." Which is a travesty to me since that is terribly uninteresting. :-/

 

So Like a Moth is just a Called to the Sea for only one character, but with same cost?! Interresting!
But this wording really makes it almost worthless... :(



#11
dboeren

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One of the few drawbacks of the LCG model is that cards with old wording don't get flushed out and replaced like they do with CCGs. So there are a few odd cards from the very early days whose wording doesn't match that well with how things would work today.

 

Like  A Moth isn't all that great a card on its own, but it can still do some useful things.  Zero skill means you can stop 2 success tokens, or prevent someone from blocking 2.  It also drops things down to where you can affect them with another card that can permanently take care of them.  It's worth noting that cards which affect low skill characters tend to not have a "non-Ancient One" clause so this can be a way to take those guys out.  Moth them down to zero, then hit 'em with a Crowbar, Tear Gas, etc...



#12
Jhaelen

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Yup, 'Like a Moth' is the only card modifying printed skill. And, yes, it's not really worth including if it was reworded as suggested.



#13
Mulletcheese

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What happens when Maureen copies a self referencing card?

#14
Jhaelen

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What happens when Maureen copies a self referencing card?

Not much, unfortunately. The original card name will be copied, usually resulting in the ability being unusable by her.

 

This is an old problem shared, e.g. by :

gallery_38_104541.jpg



#15
Mulletcheese

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So it becomes non-self-referencing ability?
So if I had Maureen and peaslee in play, I could use either card to trigger peaslee, I could use Maureen to get multiple uses out of peaslee.

#16
Jhaelen

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So it becomes non-self-referencing ability?
So if I had Maureen and peaslee in play, I could use either card to trigger peaslee, I could use Maureen to get multiple uses out of peaslee.

Yes.

You mean the Yog Peaslee? Well, it's Unique, so once control of him has passed to your opponent, how can you trigger it again? I don't think it's possible to grant your opponent control of a character they already control.







Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: coc, lcg, ffg, MaureendeGarmeaux, clone, copy, skill, maureen