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Warhammer 40,000: Conquest Deck Builder Now Live


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#41
Larnal

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Hi there,

 

First things first, THANK YOU for this amazing Deck Builder, it is very neat and good looking and quite intuitive to use. Very good work there.

 

My suggestions and bug report :

 

BUG :

  • Export in .o8c works but not perfectly : Cards are not arranged in sections when the deck is opened in OCTGN. You need to put the <card> in the right <section>. For now all cards in the "Armies" section, whereas events should be in "Events" and so on.... it's only a matter of <section> in your file.
  • On the same track, the number of cards per card (3 of the same card for example) is not properly recognized by OCTGN. I managed to make it work but rearanging the sections in the right order (Warlord/Armies/Attachements/Events/Supports), add the shared="False" tag in each <section> and finally (and probably the real thing) by adding  <notes><![CDATA[]]></notes> at the end of the file just before the </deck>

SUGGESTIONS : 

  • Add sorting by Damage in the deck list, (would only work for Units) and allow 2 parameters sorting (eg. Cost and Type, Cost and Damage, Damage and Type). It would have subsections then, like Warlord /// Units (ranged by cost) //// Events (ranged by cost) and so on.
  • Think about modifying the IU to display all important info for each card in the lists : Command/Damage/Life and the cost, maybe like that 2-2/1/1 or something similar and small and maybe a * if the Unit has a capacity.
  • The stat tool is a welcome addition but quite simple for now. A really nice addition would be detailled stats about your first hand in term of nb of units, total command points, total damage, nb of other cards... And go further with the same stats for each turn (with configurable number of cards drawn each turn and ressources). That way we would have a graph for example  of damage outpout for the 3 first turns with 4 cards drawn each turn and 8 res earned each turn. And then I would compare this stats between my decks and see if my new one have higher command outpout at the beginning and if it follows in term of damage in the late game.
  • And make a button to randomly generate a first hand (where you see the card in a line and could overview them by mouse hovering like in the card list).

That's all I have in mind ! Hope I gave you inspiration :)


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#42
Shunsen

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It's not really about the builder, but still the best place to post possibly.

When decks created by the builder are posted in this forum all cards should be linked to the db, which is a great feature. But most times in the mobile version of the forum only the warlord is linked. Behind every other card there is a button with a + instead, but clicking it does nothing.

#43
Darksbane

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Hi Darksbane

Whilst we are on about possible improvements, can I please suggest the following format?

1. You choose your faction. It opens up a faction's non-signature cards in your search (as well as neutrals). For simplicity, you may not change this choice without starting again (need that button, am I missing it?).

2. You choose your warlord. This is limited by your choice of main faction. This inserts those 9 signature cards (including warlord) into your deck list. You are free to go back to this drop down and change your warlord from the choice available for that faction, changing your 9 card slots.

3. You choose your allied faction. This is limited by your choice of main faction. It opens up the non-restricted cards of that faction in your search. You are free to switch allied faction, it kicks out all selected cards of the old faction and opens up the non-restricted cards of the new faction. The current facility to view but not select cards from the rejected ally is retained. This is so that when deck building, you can consider the pros and cons of each alliance and most importantly change your mind without needing to start again.

2 and 3 are how the deckbuilder works currently if I am understanding you correctly. I'm not sure I understand what you are looking for in #1.
 

So for example if agotcards did Conquest, it would already have all the cards spoiled so far in its deck builder. This is important to the competitive player who wants to stay on top of things, plan for the future. And please insert yet to be released cards when they get spoiled like agotcards. And please, as a FFG site, be the first site with a full pack spoiler - before it hits the shops. I know this is not your fault but useless FFG but when I go to a Magic prerelease, I swot up on the all cards on MTGsalvation first, all of them, even before any card has been sold. Is it asking too much of FFG to generate traffic to their own site by giving you, Drew, an exclusive preview of the whole pack before your competitors spoil them all (because some store in Germany opened a pack before the rest of the world)? C'mon FFG, support your investment, instead of harming it by making it the last site to have the new cards in its deck builder!

This isn't up to me, when cards get put in the database is up to FFG.
 

it is restrictive compared to meteor's format with its make public/private switch, finding other public decks with a card from most recent created etc).


I prefer to keep everything private unless you want to show it publicly which is why you submit copies of your deck to the public side. That way you are free to make changes to your private deck without it affecting its public version until you submit it again. As far as finding other decks by card are you talking about when you look at an individual card and it shows recent decks with that card?
 

Finally, thank you for all your hard work, Mr Dallas.


My pleasure, thanks for the suggestions and feel free to keep them coming.



#44
sparrowhawk

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Hi Darksbane

In a rush so sorry if this comes off slightly abrupt.

Currently there is just 1 Warlord per faction so listing all 7 and choosing is fine. However there will be 14 at the end of the Warlords cycle to search down the list. Then 2 more factions and even more warlords, like the identities in Netrunner, each belonging to 1 faction. Yes, currently there is an ability to filter on a faction. But there's no ability to change your mind about which Warlord to play with the cards you have already chosen. I can only clear my deck and start again. This may not be an issue now but will be in the future,

A format where the first decision node you make has 7-9 paths (Faction).
Then you make a decision for 9 cards that you can always change as you change your mind deck-building, keeping your selected cards.
That's a more future-proofed format, surely?

But even currently, there is a huge benefit in having your alliance as a separate decision node.
So you can change your mind, change your alliance and you lose prior alliance cards selected but now able to select new alliance cards.
From experience, I can tell you that I'm often uncertain which alliance is best and would love the ability to change my mind whilst building.
And it will certainly be the case with the Necrons.

Level 1 Decision = faction (only way to change this is to clear deck like current)
Level 2 Decision = warlord (not even obligatory, this is just 9 cards fluff, no impact on card choices available to user)
Level 2 Decision = alliance (not even obligatory, this just opens up those cards as allowed to be selected and kicks out illegal cards selected)

I hope the subtle difference (it's very minor) is clearer now?

As for the new cards (and existing spoiled cards) appearing in CGDB last, this is a rebuke to FFG. It's ridiculous that every other deckbuilder in their LCGs has these cards as and when they are spoiled. Look at the Thrones forum. Every pack, we get cards copied from agotcards copied onto threads to discuss - because it's not here! THIS IS WRONG, FFG!!! Support your asset (it's that Marketing Ops person again responsible for distribution delays). Once cards are spoiled, the card images should be given to Darksbane to add to CGDB. Then when you send out the stock to stores, do a full spoiler on CGDB! Because some store will open up a pack and a full spoiler will appear on the internet. So why on earth not give this exclusive right to CGDB? Even worse, you give the images late to Drew so people can own First Contact but not have it on the official FFG deck-builder - how wrong is that? You bought CGDB as an asset so use it as an asset. FFG Marketing Ops is laughable at times...


Again, Darksbane, I feel so bad, like a spoilt child wanting an even more expensive present. It is only a minor quibble as you can see but maybe a better approach for future-proofing? And we all appreciate that the lack of images of spoiled cards here is not your fault. Just that the internet will organically grow sites that will have these spoiled images on their deck builder. You can't beat them so FFG should at least give their purchased asset more love.

#45
sparrowhawk

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Oh and on the point about public/private.

I actually like that decks are private as a default on CGDB compared to other deck builders. The whole submit mechanic which actually posts decks with a delay seems at odds with other deck builders that have a simple on/off switch for privacy and then allow you to view decks based on recency of build/update. But the really cool function that meteor has (I never used NRDB RIP) is the ability to double click a card and you instantly see other public decks (from most recent updated backwards) that have that card. As the card pool grows, that cross-referencing and reassurance that others play that card and canvassing decks on how many optimal copies are being played, that functionality has real value.

CGDB has the best community forums for all the LCGs except Netrunner where BGG (Stimhack distant second) has the best forum. Why FFG actually create ghost forums like their site (which had horrendous download time issues) mystifies me. They should have a link to CGDB which is their asset and just amalgamate the traffic instead of giving the impression to passers by that the hobby is dead when it is vibrant (I'm looking at you, Thrones). So why don't FFG do these simple common sense things?

Do they actually read comments on CGDB or just sit in their ivory towers thinking "well, nobody has posted anything on our dead FFG site forums, everything is fine"? It so annoys me that they are a benign company but they so often shoot themselves in the foot.

Veering back to deck builder functionality (but it's all linked, they should be supporting CGDB more, perhaps more resource than just a family man when he finds spare time?), the fact that these other deck builders do become more popular (whilst CGDB remains a great forum for chat) may indicate that scouting their features and incorporating them here would be a great idea. With Conquest, you really have a head start so I would urge a more flexible less restrictive deck builder with other features like the card reference feature I mentioned.

I think you know from my lengthy posts on the Cease & Desist in Thrones especially (also the post moved to Netrunner) where I stand - that I am a big fan of you, Darksbane, and FFG as a comparatively benign company. So I mention these issues because I want to see CGDB Conquest succeed, not just as a chat and strategy forum (like Thrones here) but also as the best deck builder. It's like a father exasperated at an underachieving child who could be so much more.

I am, as always, immensely grateful for the endless hours of enjoyment that your endeavours, Darksbane, have given me - and countless other LCG geeks! I hope the karma of all the happiness you have given returns to you and your family. However, there is room for improvement, sir.

#46
Darksbane

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But there's no ability to change your mind about which Warlord to play with the cards you have already chosen. I can only clear my deck and start again. This may not be an issue now but will be in the future


You can switch your warlord at any time. If you look at your deck it lists your warlord at the top. There is a little blue button with a ↺ in it.

changewarlord.JPG

Click on that and it will bring up the warlord list. You can pick the same warlord but different ally faction and it will remove any invalid cards from the deck while leaving the valid ones. You can pick a different faction but same ally and it will leave the ally cards in the deck and remove the old main faction cards. You can pick a new faction with new ally and it will remove anything that isn't neutral. You can switch your main faction for the warlord from your ally faction and it will remove all the sig/loyal cards but leave the rest.
 
If any of that isn't working let me know, I did quite a bit of testing with it though as this deckbuilder tries to mimic the deckbuilding rules since what you can include is so restrictive, but it is possible I've got something messed up somewhere.
 
Does that handle most of your concerns? I do agree that the list of warlords might need some tweaking eventually and I likely should give the option to show the signature squad cards somehow before actually starting a deck with that warlord.
 

Once cards are spoiled, the card images should be given to Darksbane to add to CGDB.
Just that the internet will organically grow sites that will have these spoiled images on their deck builder. You can't beat them so FFG should at least give their purchased asset more love.

 
FFG is working hard right now on a solution to this. My impression from conversations with them is that they agree that it is an issue and they are putting into place a system to make it much easier to enter the spoilers and also to make sure they get out in a timely manner. I know they would ideally like to stick to their internal schedule but the goal is to get the information out there very soon after it is spoiled. The new system should make it much easier on them to get the information up quickly if unofficial spoilers go up.
 

The whole submit mechanic which actually posts decks with a delay seems at odds with other deck builders that have a simple on/off switch for privacy and then allow you to view decks based on recency of build/update.


The new deckbuilders don't have a delay between submission and when they are visible anymore, and in the public deck section they should be automatically ordered by last activity, very similar to a forum thread where comments or deck updates bump the record.
 

But the really cool function that meteor has (I never used NRDB RIP) is the ability to double click a card and you instantly see other public decks (from most recent updated backwards) that have that card. As the card pool grows, that cross-referencing and reassurance that others play that card and canvassing decks on how many optimal copies are being played, that functionality has real value.


I think I'm looking at the same thing you are, although double clicking didn't do anything different than single clicking for me. Basically when you are looking at a card in the spoiler database you want to see recent decks which also use that card, right? Perhaps also with a way to click on the card in the deckbuilder to open a new tab to that card in the spoiler database? If so, I had something like that in the other games but removed some of it when I was trying to figure out what was bogging down the servers. It is something that I want to add back though.
 

Why FFG actually create ghost forums like their site (which had horrendous download time issues) mystifies me. So why don't FFG do these simple common sense things?

They are working on this too, but as with any decent sized company it can take a while for things to move through the official channels, get approved, get dev time, etc. Although they don't interact on the forums much they do keep an eye on everything and greatly value customer input.
 

Veering back to deck builder functionality (but it's all linked, they should be supporting CGDB more, perhaps more resource than just a family man when he finds spare time?), the fact that these other deck builders do become more popular (whilst CGDB remains a great forum for chat) may indicate that scouting their features and incorporating them here would be a great idea. With Conquest, you really have a head start so I would urge a more flexible less restrictive deck builder with other features like the card reference feature I mentioned.

I am, as always, immensely grateful for the endless hours of enjoyment that your endeavours, Darksbane, have given me - and countless other LCG geeks! I hope the karma of all the happiness you have given returns to you and your family. However, there is room for improvement, sir.

 

I absolutely agree there is room for improvement and I appreciate the feedback. I'm currently working on some various improvements that I think people will like. Hopefully soon I'll have more details on that.



#47
sparrowhawk

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Does that handle most of your concerns?

 

It does indeed! I remember you canvassing for requests and I mentioned this functionality - and you have put it in! I don't know I'm happy or angry with myself that I had pressed "Clear Deck" so often to start all over again.

 

Thank you for being so patient with this stupid user who hadn't clicked on that button. I wonder if I'm the only one.

 

It's good to hear you are already working on the "decks that used this card recently" feature,

 

And it's good to hear that FFG are addressing the embarrassment of their own deck builder being the last to have spoiled cards. I wonder if this also means spoiled on the FFG site or just the whole pack en-mass a bit earlier (certainly not after they are on sale). I hope it is the former like agotcards which has odds and sods of every card spoiled in future products to plan ahead with.

 

Is there any way to unsubmit decks? Beyond the "No don't submit" button that sometimes works but still lists the deck as submitted, In meteor, you can make private/make public at a click. It also makes sense because it deletes public decks when players delete them from their roster of decks. But the main reason we need a more dynamic mechanic between private and public is because in a LCG, decks evolve. Suddenly a new card comes and that deck is no longer viable. From the version numbers, there seems to be a separate way to update submitted decks. Is there a remove from submitted? Especially when you are fumbling around with a new game and no longer want this abomination of an experimental build associated with your name on it! :) If there is, great. If not, I expect making "submit" a 2-way street is quite easy

 

One final request if I may be so bold...

We have our deck lists (and choices list) ordered by

* "cost" (then alphabetical within each cost)

* "type" (then alphabetical within each type)

Is it possible to order by

* type then cost (then alphabetical)

This is because working out your unit cost curve (in most of these LCGs) is quite important.

Again, just a nice to have extra option in the drop down - for when you are next upgrading from Dev to Prod.

 

 

Once again, thank you for being such a great site host, Darksbane, I hope you don't mind me striving for greater functionality.



#48
Darksbane

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It's good to hear you are already working on the "decks that used this card recently" feature,

 

Ok recent 5 decks using a card are now shown under a card's record in the database. They are shown in a carousel to save space, It is pretty basic at the moment but it should get the job done until I get some more time. There is a bug where old decks will not show up under the warlord record. I've got it fixed for new and updated decks though so as more decks get submitted it will fix itself.

 

At the moment there isn't a way to remove a submitted deck but you can update it at any time with improvements by submitting it again. Your private deck is tied to its public version with a key, every time you submit that private deck it will see if a deck has already been submitted with that key. If it has it will update the existing deck and increment the version number. 

 

Adding sort types is something I want to do but that feature is pretty new so I'm starting basic at the moment. I'll add it to my nice to have list of features but I doubt i'll be able to get to that until I get done with some other improvements.


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#49
Tragic

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How can we see decks people post? All I see is the one chat forum and a sub forum for rules?

#50
Darksbane

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There is a feed of decks at the top of this forum below the rules sub forum and above the topics here, and there is a menu on the left hand side of the page called W40K: Conquest which has links in it, one of them is to the submitted decks section located here.



#51
Tragic

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wow... never seen any of that... be a good idea to make a forum link like all the other forums have.

 

Am I the only person that didn't know there was a entire section of posted decks (beyond the feed at the top?)



#52
SlapshotSG

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I'm not sure if it's only me but export to txt or octgn is not working.
I created a deck, set a name like deck1 and hit the export button but it's only downloading a 0 Byte file without any content.
Maybe the reason is that I'm using my smartphone...

Anyway, great deckbuilder so thank you very much!

EDIT: Nevermind, it's working with Chrome but not with Dolphin webbrowser.

#53
Darksbane

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wow... never seen any of that... be a good idea to make a forum link like all the other forums have.

 

Am I the only person that didn't know there was a entire section of posted decks (beyond the feed at the top?)

Good idea :D

 

I'm not sure if it's only me but export to txt or octgn is not working.
I created a deck, set a name like deck1 and hit the export button but it's only downloading a 0 Byte file without any content.
Maybe the reason is that I'm using my smartphone...

Anyway, great deckbuilder so thank you very much!

EDIT: Nevermind, it's working with Chrome but not with Dolphin webbrowser.

I'll see if I can figure out what is going on when I get some free time but I only officially support the big 4 browsers (IE, Chrome, Safari, FireFox). Additionally the mobile browsers can be hit or miss in general when 'downloading' files depending on the OS you are using.



#54
Tragic

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Dolphin is one of the big android browsers



#55
CommissarFeesh

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Dolphin is one of the big android browsers


Oh yeah, I used to use that before Chrome for Android was a thing. I'd actually forgotten about it in between switching to Windows Phone and getting a Nexus.

Took me a second to realise you were talking about the OS and not the setting. I'm way too institutionalised XD

#56
Tragic

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?? I'm talking about my housebot.

Clipboard_1.jpg

#57
Darksbane

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Deckbuilder Improvements! (and some card search improvements)

 

Although this doesn't touch on all the requests it is my first shot on moving things forward.

 

Using some stats for common screen resolution shows that 93% of the users there are at 1280px wide or larger and 55% of people fall between 1280 and 1400. Also 99% of users were on a height of 768 px or larger. I used this as a rough guideline for appropriate sizes of things and so I've adjusted the search and deck sections to be slightly larger than before and the responsiveness to be triggered at different intervals. The results are more usable space.

 

 

There is a settings button at the top of the page now which will popup a dialog box where the user can customize some areas of the deckbuilder to their liking.

 

The Performance area attempts to speed up the deckbuilder on slower devices. After some testing I found that the graphs cause a majority of the performance issues seen on low end tablets and phones. So on mobile devices auto updating of graphs are turned off by default and a user can choose to either turn them back on in the settings or click a button by the graphs to update them. During my tests on iphone 4s and 1st gen ipad mini (equivalent to ipad 2 hardware) turning off the graph auto update reduced processing time for adding and removing cards from ~1 second to ~150ms, on an ipad air it went from ~300ms to ~90ms, and on a normal desktop from ~100ms to ~5ms. This setting is remembered in a cookie whenever a user changes it.

 

The theme section allows a user to change the look of the deckbuilder. I currently have 3 themes. The first is the default theme. The second is a 'flat' mostly white theme with smaller cardgamedb logo. The third theme uses a game appropriate image as the background for the deckbuilder with smaller cardgamedb logo. This setting is remembered in a cookie whenever a user changes it. Below are examples of the themes.

w40kcThemeExamples.jpg

 

The Layout section allows the user to switch to their preferred layout. There are 6 layouts to choose from currently (not including default).

Narrow View - Least amount of space, single column search with a toggle between search criteria and results. Single column deck. Image in center. Best for browsers running 1024x768

111view.jpg

 

Wide Search - Search criteria and results side by side. Results auto update as search criteria changes. Image in center. Single column deck. Best for browsers between 1280 and 1400 px wide.

211view.jpg

 

Wide Deck - Single column search with toggle between search criteria and results. Image in center. 2 column deck. Best for browsers between 1280 and 1400 px wide.

112view.jpg

 

Wide Screen - Search criteria and results side by side. Results auto update as search criteria changes. Image in center. Double column deck.  Best for browsers between >1600  px wide.

212view.jpg

 

Wide Deck and Search, No Center image - Images show on hover. Search results auto update. Best for browsers between 1280 and 1400 px wide.

202view.jpg

 

Vertical layout - This layout is specifically geared to using on a tablet in portrait position. Usefulness on desktops would be limited I think. The search and deck section are stacked on top of each other. Images shown on click.

2T2view.jpg

 

At the top of the search criteria area is a numeric and text entry box. Typing in this area will bring up matching card results in an auto complete fashion. Choosing one will add that card to the deck in the quantity specified, clear out what you typed and put focus back on the numeric input. Using this you can add cards quickly using only the keyboard.

 

The card type field will now allow you to select multiple card types to filter by at the same time.

 

Restricted filter field hidden until we actually get a restricted card.

 

Right clicking a card name in either the deck or search results will open a popup window taking you to the card's record in the database 

 

A "No Set" option has been added to the search results view.

 

The BBCode and Popup BBCode sections in the bottom menu have been moved under Export.

 

Under Export you can now choose how you want to export your deck. Options include saving it as a file on your computer or displaying it as Text, BBCode, popup, or (new) Markdown so you can copy and paste.

 

Font sizes have been slightly increased

 

I have adjusted the images in these to be a new standard size of 420px high.

 

The Card Search has had some improvements done also

 

There is a new view selection that only shows card images in the results.

w40kcsearchimprove.jpg

 

The results of your search are shown immediately when you make a change (or when you hit enter in a text field). 

You can now select multiple card types to show at the same time

Changed faction checkboxes to buttons

 

Again thanks everyone for your feedback and just because something that has been suggested didn't make it in this time doesn't mean that it won't make it next time so please keep on giving your feedback.


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#58
CommissarFeesh

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Darksbane, I noticed the options box this morning on the Netrunner builder before I saw this thread, and all I can say is Bravo! You've gone above and beyond to try and be as accomodating as possible with the deckbuilder design, and you should be applauded for all the effort you put in here.

Thanks once again for continuing to make CGDB my favourite deckbuilding site!

#59
AussieJedi

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any uncensored card files? i own the game and playing it on octgn with blank cards is really frustrating.



#60
CommissarFeesh

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any uncensored card files? i own the game and playing it on octgn with blank cards is really frustrating.

 
You are SO asking in the wrong place. This site is owned by FFG. They'd prefer the OCTGN plugin didn't even exist, but they suffer it on the understanding people use censored images for 6 months post-release.