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Captain Cato Sicarius Deck Thread


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#1
Kingsley

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First, let's take a look at Cato Sicarius and his signature squad.

 

Sicarius himself has good fighting stats (2/6, 2/5 when bloodied), and features a very powerful Reaction that gives you a resource every time an enemy unit at his planet is destroyed (note: sacrificed is not destroyed). This ability means that you have slightly less need for resource economy from other sources and that having Sicarius present at major battles can provide you with a serious economy boost. Further, these stats and this ability make Sicarius a strong choice for sniping enemy capping units, as you will gain a resource in addition to the command struggle benefits these plays offer.

 

Fury of Sicarius is a powerful Reaction that lets you kill an enemy unit outright after damaging it with a Space Marine unit. Note that this card does not target the enemy unit in question, so it can't be countered by Communications Relay or Land Raider. However, the enemy does get a chance to shield before you can use Fury of Sicarius, so plan accordingly. This card can be a strong way to deal with enemy heavy hitters, especially Flying ones, but don't hesitate to use it against smaller targets if necessary.

 

Next, we have Tallassarian Tempest Blade-- one of the best cards in the core set and likely the standard to which all future signature attachments will be compared. Not only does this card give your Warlord +1 attack (very powerful on its own), it grants Armorbane, which allows him to reliably kill units without fear of shielding. This card has an incredible impact on the game, especially if played early.

 

Sicarius's Chosen is a solid core unit. The Chosen don't have the greatest stats (three resources for a 2/3 with one command icon is pretty "meh"), but they also come with a nasty Reaction that can be used to pick off enemy capping units in the early/midgame or to misdirect heavy hitters from important battles. Overall, they are a solid addition to the Space Marine bag of tricks, though not a critical one.

 

Finally, we have Cato's Stronghold. Like most signature supports, this card is very good-- it works well with some of the more aggressive Space Marine cards, like Daring Assault Squad, Honored Librarian, or even Sicarius himself (especially when equipped with Tallassarian Tempest Blade). Unfortunately, there is currently not a way to get this out very consistently, so I wouldn't rely on using it.

 

 

This Warlord and signature squad leaves us with a pretty strong base to begin deckbuilding, with some solid core units and great support cards. Moving on from there, we notice that the Space Marine cardpool is somewhat limited when it comes to command struggles. It has only two one- or two-cost units with command icons and lacks a cheap two-icon option. On the other hand, we have several good combat units and great tricks with which to support them-- tricks which only work with Space Marine units.

 

Based on this, I tend to favor Tau allies over Astra Militarum ones. They offer three main advantages:

 

1. Better command options. Tau have more 1-drops than Astra Militarum does, and I strongly prefer Vash'ya Trailblazer to Sanctioned Psyker. Further, Vior'la Marksman is objectively better than Ratling Deadeye (same cost/ability but +1 HP).

2. Earth Caste Technician. This card lets you search/filter for attachments, letting you get your crucial Tallassarian Tempest Blade out quicker.

3. Ion Rifle. This is a great card for turning cheap units into relevant ones and medium units into heavy hitters.

 

While the Astra Militarum has some strong options of its own, like Catachan Outpost or Assault Valkyrie, it doesn't fill the Command weakness as well as Tau do. Further, our Space Marine combat tricks don't work with Assault Valkyrie, Daring Assault Squad outclasses Mordian Hellhound, and Elysian Assault Team is somewhat redundant with Eager Recruit. Thus, I think that Tau are a better choice at this stage.

 

My typical "allies package" is:

3x Vior'la Marksman (early capping, ranged threat against cheap units, pings warlords who come to snipe him, can be made significantly more threatening with Ion Rifle)

3x Earth Caste Technician (capping, searches/filters for attachments)

3x Vash'ya Trailblazer (excellent capping unit)

3x Ion Rifle (useful attachment and shield)

 

This set of units helps fill the Space Marine weakness in the command struggle while also giving me a better chance to get Tempest Blade out early and providing a solid attachment (Ion Rifle) that can either be used offensively (as an attachment) or defensively (as a shield). Ion Rifle on Honored Librarian or Deathwing Guard is an especially good combination.

 

The next step is to select  the rest of your Space Marine cards. This is relatively straightforward so I won't explain it all here, but it basically boils down to getting a strong set of cards that don't step on each other's toes too much (for instance, Blood Angels Veterans is a solid card, but is somewhat redundant with Sicarius's Chosen). My current decklist ends up looking like this:

 

Warlord:
 Captain Cato Sicarius (Core Set)


Army Unit (33)
3x 10th Company Scout (Core Set)
2x Daring Assault Squad (Core Set)
3x Eager Recruit (Core Set)
3x Earth Caste Technician (Core Set)
3x Honored Librarian (Core Set)
2x Land Raider (Core Set)
4x Sicarius’s Chosen (Core Set)
3x Tactical Squad Cardinis (Core Set)
3x Vash’ya Trailblazer (Core Set)
1x Veteran Brother Maxos (Core Set)
3x Vior’la Marksman (Core Set)
3x Void Pirate (Core Set)


Attachment (7)
3x Ion Rifle (Core Set)
3x Promotion (Core Set)
1x Tallassarian Tempest Blade (Core Set)


Event (8)
3x Drop Pod Assault (Core Set)
3x Indomitable (Core Set)
2x The Fury of Sicarius (Core Set)


Support (2)
1x Cato’s Stronghold (Core Set)
1x Fortress-Monastery (Core Set)

 

 

Note the 18 1-2 cost capping units and 3 Promotions. I've found that this deck often dominates the command struggle-- far from what we would expect from a faction that normally has this as a weakness! I've also removed some of the "heavier" units like Ultramarines Dreadnought and Deathwing Guard-- while these units can be good, they tend to be expensive and vulnerable to tricks. Having more smaller units and focusing more on card draw (easy to do with Sicarius's extra resources) seems like the way to go.


  • sparrowhawk and LorrineTof like this

#2
sparrowhawk

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Thanks, Kingsley, for a very thorough run-through of Cato's signature units which I totally agree with. Although I think you may be understating the value of Chosen's versatility, with its pinging and involuntary move which I feel will get very valuable as the game becomes more tactical.

I think you are right that, based on a Core x3 pool, the Tau have better capping units to make them more appealing in rounding out the Marines' weakness. However, I think this is close enough that Astra Militarum may become a better choice with a few new cards. This is mainly due to stacking Catachan Outposts + ambush-like effects (like Drop Pod and Eager Recruit) that are amazing targeted damage in battles. I definitely see Ragnar Blackmane's Space Wolves allying with Imperial Guard for that added focus damage flexibility.

Ok, so I'd secretly spec'd out a Space Marines build before you posted Cato's Heresy (the original build, which the above is an evolution) and it was pretty similar - but also different in a few keys ways. So this may be a great way to discuss my reasons for the differences and to get feedback from yourself and others who have experience playing Cato. So here is my very similar variant of Cato + Tau.


CATO + TAU (Core x3)

Deck Created with CardGameDB.com Warhammer 40,000: Conquest Deckbuilder

Total Cards: (50)

Warlord:
1x Captain Cato Sicarius (Core Set)

Army Unit: (32)
4x Sicarius’s Chosen (Core Set)
3x Void Pirate (Core Set)
3x 10th Company Scout (Core Set)
3x Eager Recruit (Core Set)
3x Earth Caste Technician (Core Set)
3x Vior’la Marksman (Core Set)
3x Tactical Squad Cardinis (Core Set)
3x Vash’ya Trailblazer (Core Set)
3x Honored Librarian (Core Set)
1x Veteran Brother Maxos (Core Set)
3x Daring Assault Squad (Core Set)

Attachment: (10)
1x Tallassarian Tempest Blade (Core Set)
3x Promotion (Core Set)
3x Ion Rifle (Core Set)
3x Iron Halo (Core Set)

Event: (6)
2x The Fury of Sicarius (Core Set)
3x Indomitable (Core Set)
1x Exterminatus (Core Set)

Support: (2)
1x Cato’s Stronghold (Core Set)
1x Fortress-Monastery (Core Set)


So what are the differences? Well, a strength of Space Marines is its tricks but they require native units. So the more you dilute the Marines in a deck, the less useful they become. We've eschewed the slow control build that uses Holy Sepulchre (= pay 2R1C to gain 1C every turn). Indomitable is always going to be useful to protect Cato and beefier investments. But there's one native trick that I'm less keen on as a result of mixing with the Tau...

-3x Drop Pod Assault
+3x Iron Halo

The problem with not having Blood Angel Veterans is it makes Drop Pod Assault a less attractive trick (4 Chosen + 1 Brother + 3 Librarians = 8 cards),. This is a 67% chance of finding at least 1 unit of 3 cost from the full deck of 50 cards, This increases to 79% if Cardini are good enough or 93% for any eligible unit - like an Eager Recruit or 10th Company. But you really don't want to pay 2 for them, do you?

In addition, dropping anything except a Librarian often does not benefit from text or command icons (Drop Pod is not any phase like Gift of Isha) so you pay 2 for an uncertain 2-3 at best. You already have reliable ambush in Eager recruit to ping 2 damage from nowhere and be a new combatant target, often to exhaust the victor due to its unexpected prolonged combat. Finally, it must be so dispiriting to see Tempest Blade being placed at the bottom of the deck after a Drop Pod. So I imagine Drop Pods are often used for their 2 shields.

In the same way, by only having 7 attachments, you gives yourself a 62% chance of replacing the Technician card played. I don't fancy those odds but increasing the attachments to 10 increases the hit chance to a healthier 76%.

Finally, giving Cato a relic quickly is crucial into turning him into a dangerous sniping warlord. Instead of waiting for Tempest Blade, when you get an Iron Halo first, suddenly a ranged unit guarding a planet and its ally is no longer a deterrent to his sniping. He gets immunity to Warpstorm and the worst excesses of Chaos or Orks. Iron Halo may cost 3 but it is a damage soak for the rest of the game, giving Cato so much sniping freedom. Meantime, the Technician may find more relics to replace them - but treat them as a freebie 2-3 shield card. To me, there seems more reliability and synergy this way.

The other difference is:

-2 Land Raider
+1 Daring Assault Squad
+1 Exterminatus

On Land Raider, I recently wrote...


The cards that Land Raider MAY help you against..

Archon's Terror (but often the Land Raider may be the most dangerous unit there anyway)
Captain Markis (Land Raider is a pretty good target to exhaust)
Deception (total immunity)
Eldorath Starbane (still a good target to hit)
Kraktoof Hall (it's a 1 of, yeah this is very useful cover for weenies at its planet)
Shrouded Harlequin (crucially prevents exhausting warlord to lose initiative/prevent escape)
Sicarius' Chosen (distracting the Land Raider away from a battle ain't shabby though)
Superiority (but it would be best choice probably anyway)
Suppressive Fire (nobody plays it but the Land Raider is a pretty good target to exhaust)
Twisted Laboratory (this is too situational and tempo loss for Kith aggro, more for next DE control warlord?)
Tzeentch's Firestorm (used for shields unless opponent knows you are out of shields after losing key unit to exact damage)
Zarathur's Flamers (yeah, this is good protection of a Librarian)

In the end, only a few of those cards are actually hurt by having to target the beefy Land Raider instead of another unit. Is it worth it?


In reality, the most obvious use of Land Raider is to protect your Assault Squad from a Terror or Laboratory in the DE match-up so that you can clear the enemy with AoE2. But why not just have another Assault Squad in the battle for 1 cheaper? "Oh dear, I have to Terror the 3-3-7 that cost you 5, that's such a bad target." In addition, you never really want to draw 2 copies of cards with binary effects, in fact any cards that don't stack like Land Raider or Fire Warrior Elite.

Now I agree from its omission in your list that Fire Warrior Elite is best in Tau with their loyal Repulsor Fields as attack distraction (even when exhausted), maybe with Devilfish in a First Planet Exterminatus strategy using the new Tau warlord. Also Librarian and now my added Iron Halos make their protection unnecessary, better spent on more aggressive units.

However, I am a firm believer in having at least 1 copy of the major resets in a deck. Especially playing against the same opponent, you need to threaten the possibility of a game-turning wipe. Now this Marines build that is strong in command struggles is very versatile, not a committed First Planet strategy build (that dies to Doom) but able to play according to match-up. However, having an Exterminatus (you don't want to see 2 in hand) gives you so many more options. Here's a logical reason why Exterminatus is a great card (especially if you are more short game than long game):

1. It costs you -3R1C.
2. If it hits an opponent's command planet with (say) Falcon + Survivalist (a poor target), it has cost him -5R2C.
3. You deny him -2R2C (let's assume it's a 1C1R planet) per turn that he remained capping that planet (say 1).
4. If you then end up capping a planet, (or Maxos already there), you gain +1R1C for each turn capped (say 1).
5. So, for the net cost of -2R, you have cost your opponent -7R4C in that 1 turn.

The economics of Exterminatus is just amazing. Players have to spread, making Cato's sniping even easier. To have a nuclear deterrent, you must have at least 1 nuclear warhead.

Anyway, that's my unqualified feedback on your deck. I'm reassured that I had independently come to a similar Marines build to your current version but I think the differences make for interesting debate (as most of the rest of the deck builds itself really).

Finally, as this thread deserves far more attention than it has had (it's because you published Cato's Heresy already and you didn't go with some populist "Ban this Space Marine card" clarion call), I will post some %s for people to refer to concerning a common game mechanic.

What is the chance of finding at least 1 card of a name/type when looking at the top 6 cards of a 50 card deck that has X copies?


X
1 = 12.0%
2= 22.8%
3 = 32.4%
4 = 41.1%
5 = 48.7%
6 = 55.6%
7 = 61.6%
8 = 67.0%
9 = 71.7%
10 = 75.8%
11 = 79.5%
12 = 82.6%
13 = 85.4%
14 = 87.7%
15 = 89.8%
16 = 91.5%
17 = 93.0%
18 = 94.3%
19 = 95.4%
20 = 96.3%
21 = 97.0%
22 = 97.6%
23 = 98.1%
24 = 98.6%25 = 98.9%

Finally, is anyone else willing to further comment on the Tau alliance build? Or better still, champion the advantages of an Imperial Guard alliance?
  • starkjoy and LorrineTof like this

#3
Kingsley

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I do use Drop Pod Assault for shields a lot-- but I also use it for its ability. And yeah, sometimes it gets Eager Recruit/10th Company Scout. This isn't great, but getting a unit in the middle of a battle is still quite good. I find that Tactical Squad Cardinis is frequently the best possible target, especially with all the people playing Dark Eldar-- I've taken it over Maxos or Librarian before. I anticipate using Iron Halo for its ability significantly less than I would Drop Pod Assault, though I should perhaps do more testing with the card and see how it turns out. In the event that warlord kill becomes a common strategy, Iron Halo of course becomes much more valuable than it is at present. Right now, though, I haven't had very much difficulty keeping my warlord alive, and I like the aggression of Tempest Blade significantly more than the defense offered by Iron Halo.

 

As for the Land Raider issue, if I was always playing it to protect Daring Assault Squad I would agree with your reasoning. However, it's often there to protect Vior'la Marksman with Ion Rifle or Honored Librarian-- cards which I'm already playing 3x of and don't have any good substitutes for. For now I plan on keeping the Raiders as they are.

 

I agree with your reasoning regarding 1x Exterminatus for repeated play with the same opponents. Thus far I haven't been too concerned with that, but it's something to keep an eye on for future development, especially as a more clear meta and "scene" emerges locally. It's also quite possible that I'll include more than one if it seems tactically necessary for more than the bluffing value.

 

Finally, Astra Militarum (Imperial Guard). This build seems clearly weaker right now, though it does offer Catachan Outpost, which IMO is a superior alternative to Ion Rifle (though not without downsides of its own). If either Astra Militarum or Space Marines themselves get better command struggle cards, it's quite possible that Tau support will no longer be needed, and we can add Catachan Outpost and perhaps Assault Valkyrie to the composition. That said, I think it'll be hard for them to offer something that competes with Earth Caste Technician, and Ratling Deadeye/Sanctioned Psyker already seem outclassed by their Tau counterparts.



#4
sparrowhawk

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You make good points as always, Kingsley. I guess I just like to maximise %s so it's a style approach. Also resilience of Iron Halo translates to aggression - you don't need brutality, it's just an extra round of attack Cato will have that he otherwise wouldn't. And the freedom to worry less about ambush effects like Infernal Gate etc. I totally respect your approach to roll the dice with both Drop Pod and Technician at lower odds. I'm still unsold over Land Raider though, sorry, at least until more targeting cards enter the pool.

I would be interested to see if you believe there is a long game build with Cato that uses Holy Sepulchre. Or is it just too slow to recoup its investment? (I always felt that they got Sepulchres and Cogitators the wrong way round as Chaos would prefer recursion and Marines would prefer card draw, although after resolving the deck clog issue in Cogitator, hopefully with a new card).

In fact, my worry is that a support has to be really good and never a bad draw to justify its inclusion and I just wish they had given supports shields as well. Nothing to stop them doing this in future.

Also have you considered a focused First Planet strategy that plays Devilfish (he's not for Shadowsun), Fire Warrior Elite and 3x Exterminatus (because you are going into First Planet so heavily that you force them to prepare on a later planet ready). I don't think the card pool favours such a focused approach yet but just putting it out there as I would far prefer more grey in deck-building orthodoxy and I worry that the irrefutable logic of your build may kill this.

I fear this thread may suffer in popularity initially because you have already got to the destination - it's very hard to argue with such an optimised build (though I've tried). Hopefully people will contribute here and I certainly will try to keep it alive, resurrecting it whenever a new card challenges this orthodoxy.

Thanks again for taking the effort to share your thoughts with us.

#5
Kingsley

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Holy Sepulchre works really well with Eager Recruit but otherwise strikes me as somewhat underwhelming. I had an interesting pseudo-mirror match earlier against someone running a "surprise attack" deck with 3x Eager Recruit, 3x Elysian Assault Team, and 2-3 Holy Sepulchres. I was able to ultimately defeat this deck through resource choke, thus preventing it from actually playing the Eager Recruits after recurring them with its Sepulchres, but I could easily see this being overwhelming if allowed to build up enough resources.

 

I've considered Experimental Devilfish. IMO it compares unfavorably to Honored Librarian and I don't really have a slot for a midrange non-Space Marine combat unit-- I would probably run Blood Angels Veterans before this, and I'm not running Blood Angels Veterans. I agree with your assessment that this card doesn't work well with Shadowsun-- I think there might be a pretty awesome "blitzkrieg" deck with Aun'Shi, 3x Devilfish, Mobile units, and Exterminatus-- but I'm not sure that it's right here either.



#6
sparrowhawk

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This is an attempt to create some interest in this poor, neglected late-to-the-party deck thread by proposing a Guard alliance build instead of Tau, just to get a discussion started. It deliberately attempts an experimental concept and asks for feedback on how to improve it (or if it is a non-starter).

Holy Sepulchre works really well with Eager Recruit but otherwise strikes me as somewhat underwhelming. I had an interesting pseudo-mirror match earlier against someone running a "surprise attack" deck with 3x Eager Recruit, 3x Elysian Assault Team, and 2-3 Holy Sepulchres. I was able to ultimately defeat this deck through resource choke, thus preventing it from actually playing the Eager Recruits after recurring them with its Sepulchres, but I could easily see this being overwhelming if allowed to build up enough resources.


The above was a concept I had considered when I first saw Blackmane (I had to go back in time and find it as a late recent convert to the game).

The concept is based on very well-timed (sometimes saved up) ambush attacks from nowhere against a sniping Warlord using Eager Recruit and Drop Pod Assault, the latter primed to find a good build, and when a Soldier dies (only 12) in a battle with a Warlord, maybe multiple plays of Elysian Assault Team for free. The Catachan Outposts (stacked) are crucial for extra damage on the ambush attacks on the Warlord whilst the Holy Sepulchres recurse the Eager Recruits ideally else another unit, for card advantage. Meantime, Cato snipes at units for resources. The net result could be an enemy warlord who will be too paranoid to commit anywhere except to a well-deployed planet - and even then suicidal ambush attacks will bloody and hopefully kill him. If he plays very cautiously, you leverage this to beat him conventionally.

Well, that's the concept anyway and Kingsley's post above gave me reassurance that it has legs, although the pool may not be ready for it yet (and it may be better for Ragnar Blackmane like I first envisaged).

This concept relies heavily on surprise and luring the enemy into a fall sense of security - like going for that Sanctioned Psyker all on its own, a perfect bait. Timing is everything, finding the perfect action window to ideally execute multiple attacks (Catachan-pumped, save cards/resources for the trick, Catachan pumped) at the end of a round before opponent can flee or units ready.

Anyway, here's a first draft of it, ripe and ready to be improved.

Cato's Cunning
Total Cards: (50)

Warlord:
1x Captain Cato Sicarius (Core Set)

Army Unit: (30)
4x Sicarius’s Chosen (Core Set)
3x Elysian Assault Team (Core Set)
3x Eager Recruit (Core Set)
3x Rogue Trader (Core Set)
3x Void Pirate (Core Set)
3x Sanctioned Psyker (Core Set)
3x Tactical Squad Cardinis (Core Set)
2x Veteran Brother Maxos (Core Set)
3x Blood Angels Veterans (Core Set)
3x Honored Librarian (Core Set)

Attachment: (4)
1x Tallassarian Tempest Blade (Core Set)
3x Promotion (Core Set)

Event: (8)
2x The Fury of Sicarius (Core Set)
3x Indomitable (Core Set)
3x Drop Pod Assault (Core Set)

Support: (8)
1x Cato’s Stronghold (Core Set)
1x Fortress-Monastery (Core Set)
3x Holy Sepulchre (Core Set)
3x Catachan Outpost (Core Set)


So before you mock, this is like many of my lists, an experimental list that tries to explore a new way (for me anyway) to play this game.

Catachan Outposts (stacked) + Eager Recruit, Elysian Assault Team, Drop Pod Assault, Brother Maxos
This is how you bloody the enemy and make him so paranoid cautious that you can win conventionally (if not by a warlord elimination to brag). The Drop Pod Assault should try to find a Librarian or Blood Angel but if you already have a Sepulchre, finding an Eager Recruit is not as bad as it sounds (there's also Chosen, Brother Naxos and finally Cardinis as least useful for your plan).

Traders, Rogues, Sanctioned Psyker
These capping units are bait, to tempt the enemy to snipe them then face your surprise. Spread them out as the opponent can only snipe one of them and the other still collects the bonus. After being hit by recursing ambush or other surprise, the opponent will become wary (especially when bloodied) so they suddenly gain fear protection. I preferred the Neutrals to 10th Company which just gets sniped on its own (Drop Pods are too valuable to waste as shields) before they act. As for Rattling Deadeye, you don't want to deter sniping but encourage it. As none of these are soldiers (unlike the Techmarine which is slightly too pricey for deck with these supports) and only the 10th Company can be recursed with Sepulchre, I went for the economy of the Traders (supplementing Cato's ability) and Pirates (supplementing Sepulchre recursion draw) to go find the pieces you need and afford to play them.

Tactical Squad Cardinis - because it's very cost-efficient and great against swarm builds like Kith that may have too many units for an action window

Honoured Librarian, Blood Angel Veteran
Good partners, good finds with Drop Pod Assaul. Blood Angels are good hosts of Promotion and raise soldiers up to 12 for the Elysian Assault Teams, synergising with the extra surprise units in a big battle to remain ready.

Indomitable, Holy Sepulchre
Usual Marines resilience, Indomitable is key in a build with few throwaway shields (and also to annoy Etaywah) whilst Sepulchres are your recursion engine that is pseudo card-draw.

Main issue is it may be too slow with too little cutting edge (although Outposts do solve the latter slightly). The supports are all expensive so it takes time to get going (but the deck is cheap, nothing above 3) and a First Planet Snowball will surely defeat it (as the Warlord does not snipe). But who does that?

In theory, you only have to do around 13+shields damage to kill a warlord. Is it possible to tactically disrupt to take key planets to delay the game whilst you aim for this? Or maybe just segue into a conventional victory if opponent plays too cautiously?

Anyway, feedback more than welcome. I just thought I'd post a contrary build and explore this concept (not original, it seems, but then nothing is, we are all just trying to find patterns in the breadcrumbs the designers leave us).

#7
Kingsley

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This seems like it can definitely win. That said, I think there may indeed be a bit of a cardpool issue here. I think this deck will significantly benefit from more cheap Soldiers/Warriors (a 1-cost capping Soldier/Warrior would be great). It could also use some means of playing Supports more reliably, and perhaps something that can save a Recruit from discard. I do prefer 10th Company Scout to Rogue Trader, but that may be another story.

 

I also agree that Blackmane seems a more natural fit here, especially since his ability may well bully opponents into trying to snipe more often, thereby ironically playing into your hands.



#8
sparrowhawk

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I think swapping the Traders for 10th Company Scouts is a perfectly good change too as they are a Marine, which keys off all 8 Events and 3 Sepulchres. It was what my instincts told me to build - but then I read about you managing a resource choke and I looked at the costs of the supports and went against my instincts .

I agree the build may be ahead of its time, needing cheap capping units to trigger Assault Teams especially. Still, it makes a nice challenging surprise deviation in strategy and was the best I could do to come up with a contrary alliance to Tau.

The problem with this thread is your excellent opening post has a highly credible answer right at the start, without any of the usual floundering around in the darkness experimenting and making mistakes that other Deck Threads did. As a result, we got to the end of the journey instantly, no debate or discussion, and only I've been trying to challenge the orthodoxy (in a faction I thematically despise) that your meta-influencing posts & articles create. But mostly I find myself in agreement.

#9
sparrowhawk

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A bump to the poor neglected Cato Deck Thread... So has anyone tried something different with Cato recently?

 

I'm thinking of a pure Snowball aggro Tau alliance build with

* Experimental Devilfish

* Fire Warrior Elite (as protection)

* Carnivore Pack (perfect attrition unit)

* multiple Exterminatus to thin down the next key planet's opposition

 

I mention this because there is a very real danger of Groupthink. This happened when Tellyporta Pad was bad, then suddenly  great. I fear we have not explored Cato's variety in his decks yet because of the irrefutable strength of the opening build, Cato's Heresy (although I've tried to propose alternative builds above). I would be very disappointed if Cato's build is the most clear cut builds of all Core warlords.

 

I've got ideas on what such a deck could be like - but it would be great to see some ideas from others...



#10
MotoBuzzsawMF

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A bump to the poor neglected Cato Deck Thread... So has anyone tried something different with Cato recently?

 

I'm thinking of a pure Snowball aggro Tau alliance build with

* Experimental Devilfish

* Fire Warrior Elite (as protection)

* Carnivore Pack (perfect attrition unit)

* multiple Exterminatus to thin down the next key planet's opposition

 

I mention this because there is a very real danger of Groupthink. This happened when Tellyporta Pad was bad, then suddenly  great. I fear we have not explored Cato's variety in his decks yet because of the irrefutable strength of the opening build, Cato's Heresy (although I've tried to propose alternative builds above). I would be very disappointed if Cato's build is the most clear cut builds of all Core warlords.

 

I've got ideas on what such a deck could be like - but it would be great to see some ideas from others...

 

So I saw this post and said to myself "Challenge accepted!" but when I got to the builder, I truly could not find anything to build off of it. I did come up with a potential AoE Tau deck out of it though so thank you for that. 

Sadly, I think Cato and company are a one way street right now unless someone more clever than I can devise something. 


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#11
Kingsley

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I've been playing around with 2x Iron Halo and 1x Exterminatus instead of the 10th Company Scouts recently-- I was finding that I had enough units to do comfortably well in the command struggle and didn't need the extra one-drops, so I freed up some space for more attachments/events. I have yet to actually play either Iron Halo or Exterminatus as a non-shield, but the shields help.



#12
Asklepios

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I've been playing around with 2x Iron Halo and 1x Exterminatus instead of the 10th Company Scouts recently-- I was finding that I had enough units to do comfortably well in the command struggle and didn't need the extra one-drops, so I freed up some space for more attachments/events. I have yet to actually play either Iron Halo or Exterminatus as a non-shield, but the shields help.

 

When he says he's been playing around with this, what Kingsley means is he kicked my ass with this deck, while oddly enough the deck I was running was his one, pre-change.

 

Admittedly Kingsley is a better player than me, but overall I think the switch works really well.


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#13
HoopJones

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I've been playing around with 2x Iron Halo and 1x Exterminatus instead of the 10th Company Scouts recently-- I was finding that I had enough units to do comfortably well in the command struggle and didn't need the extra one-drops, so I freed up some space for more attachments/events. I have yet to actually play either Iron Halo or Exterminatus as a non-shield, but the shields help.

 

Aha! I knew there was something fishy about those scouts!



#14
Liyan

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I think this Warlord needs an update. PAGE 9!

 

1st champ deck at page 9

 

Is he still used in the current meta? Or is Ragnar just better?


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#15
VonWibble

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I personally prefer Cato to Ragnar, simply because I think his signature cards are better. Others have different tastes on this.

There are a couple of reasons for Cato seeing less play.

1) He got literally nothing in the first warpack. Well, maybe Calamity could work, and maybe Piranha Hunter, but nothing else is even playable imo.

2) All the shiny stuff for other factions, which mio has them catching up on the power curve (except Tau, who imo have been at number 1 through the games lifespan so far).

The biggest things Cato has recently gained

- Warlord groupies, but everyone has those. Getting Bor'kan recruits early helps though as Tau were already the alliance of choice. White Scars Bikers being able to come in with DPA is also a big thing in their favour. Of course, Ragnar benefits as much from this.

- Crushing Blow. One thing Cato has over Ragnar with this is that he can use it on top of Sicarius' Chosen's ability, meaning an opponent has to think very carefully all game whether or not to shield the damage to a 2HP unit. And that's without even having to have the card in hand (or your deck for that matter!)

And the biggest boost he will get is Tense Negotiations (though we haven't had Space Marines spoiled much for forthcoming packs so I'm sure there will be other hings). Ragnar wants to fight the enemy wrarlord, making using this event dangerous for him. Cato is fine taking out a capper or 2 for cash, and then exhausting to get double use of a planet ability.
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#16
Killax

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I think this Warlord needs an update. PAGE 9!

 

1st champ deck at page 9

 

Is he still used in the current meta? Or is Ragnar just better?

 

He is still used and still a perfect example of a Tier 1 Warlord. I just don't know why most people here seem to shy away from him.

I do have a deck for him and am considering dropping Darring Assault Squads for Crushing Blows maby.

 

Here's where Im at:

 

 

Now it's important to note that it does not have an incredible Command presence but makes up for this in Combat presence. I'll probably update the deck soon after the next release and will thake it to some tournaments again.

 

The main reason why I think it's gotten out of favour is because SM had such a lead start first but now are less dominant. Plus most people simply like playing with new cards and SM didn't get that many great new cards, barring the last pack.



#17
Liyan

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Thanks for the reply guys. We took a windfall of warpacks here in the philippines. Everyone got bored playtesting the core set, then the 3 warpacks came in. Now every1 doesnt have enough playtest time for the store champs this saturday.
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#18
starkjoy

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Cato is bonkers as ever.

My store championship was yesterday. 14 players and 6 were Space Marines. 4 Cato and two Ragnar. Winner was pretty much core Cato-Tau cards, I believe. I was a Cato and came in 13th. :(

Wish I had been the hipster and played Straken if I was going to get romped. My meta is rough.
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#19
Killax

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Thanks for the reply guys. We took a windfall of warpacks here in the philippines. Everyone got bored playtesting the core set, then the 3 warpacks came in. Now every1 doesnt have enough playtest time for the store champs this saturday.

 

Cato is solid as ever, it's the other faction who just became solid. So if your only experience is playing Cato at competative level. Play Cato at competative level.



#20
HidaHonk

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I still prefer cato due to his better command squad. He also has the better matchup against chaos. However he is losing against command heavy am decks or sm with am allies. Having 2 units with 2 c for 2 r is good. I am unsure about removung the Trailblaizers for borkan recruits... weaking the command presence even more :(