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New FAQ is up.

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#21
mnBroncos

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ah i see yea that is a pretty big change, still an amazing character though. I am so excited for worlds now! who is all going!? i think we are going to be around 25 if not more. 



#22
dboeren

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I think as suspected they erred a bit on the side of caution but the important thing is that Yithians are definitely gone after this.  They can start looking at which pieces can be un-restricted after Worlds but they don't want any risk of letting similar problem decks dominate there.

 

Anyway, looks like some really good changes that are going to leave the meta WIDE OPEN!



#23
mnBroncos

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I think as suspected they erred a bit on the side of caution but the important thing is that Yithians are definitely gone after this.  They can start looking at which pieces can be un-restricted after Worlds but they don't want any risk of letting similar problem decks dominate there.

 

Anyway, looks like some really good changes that are going to leave the meta WIDE OPEN!

 

i know you were on the edge before are you able to make it to worlds? 



#24
Obtuse

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Looks like they slapped errata on Interstellar Migration to make it a limit 1 too. Really grinding the heel. I still think they should have just banned it.
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#25
dboeren

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i know you were on the edge before are you able to make it to worlds? 

 

No.  FFG has a habit of putting it on my anniversary weekend each year so we're going to be doing that instead.



#26
mnBroncos

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ah that is a bummer its my bday weekend too ha. can't convience here your taking her on a trip to mn but you will be busy one day haha



#27
DavFlamerock

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Looks like they slapped errata on Interstellar Migration to make it a limit 1 too. Really grinding the heel. I still think they should have just banned it.

 

I actually suspect they're going to bring most of the other Yithian cards off the reserved list after Worlds, when more players can get a sense of the metagame without Yith (and so they can bring them back in tiny increments to make sure they can spot the real problematic ones). The errata to Migration, however, probably should have always been there and will be a permanent change.



#28
Saldre

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I find its a bit silly that they're pretty much restricted a set that was originally supposed to work together. Its funny that they restricted Tesla, and mostly all of the other cards that work from the discard. 

 

Its a bit weird. Granted, I don't play at any official level- and seeing as we don't have constant access to the internet when we play (me and a friend) we very rarely follow the tournament rules. I understand that might be a bit weird, but generally, we don't build very competitive decks in the first place hehe :P (My current favorite deck is a Gug Deck :P

 

To each his own, but I do hope that a better solution than restricting combo cards is implemented after the world tournament. Its a bit silly. "All of these cards work together like a well oiled machine! Instead of banning THE problem piece, lets just make it so you can only have a single one of these combo cards in a deck." Again, I guess its just in order to freshen up the Meta for the worlds cup. Its still weird. And did I mention, silly?


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#29
Tragic

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I do not think it is weird at all. The entire Yog Box was a disaster of epic proportions. It baffles me how they could have even considered most of the cards. Everyone who looked at the previews was like WTF. Then the yith mill was out and most local people banned it or the players just refused to play it.. everyone except that one guy at gencon who has no shame!

This was a long time coming and and while Yog gets a lot of hate, ALL the new biog box expansions have been stupidly powerful and completely wrecked this game. I've been playing on and off from before it was even called Call of Cthulhu (yes I count Mythos!) and the current state of the game is the worst it has ever been.

Syndicate toons with 4 skill on a 2 drop with fast.. wtf. Discarding to remove struggle icons from stories. Discard pile insanity.. the design of the new packs is out of control. In a bad way.
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#30
mnBroncos

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idk i am very excited to play at worlds this year so many decks can be seen. I see pros and cons to the big boxes my biggest con is that not every faction has theres yet. I really hope the game lasts one or two more years once everyone has their box because then it will be a real fun experience with every faction having powerful options 



#31
Wilbur

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I respectfully but strongly disagree with you, Tragic. I expect Worlds, and any local scene that has a 'competitive' element, to see a steep increase in the diversity of viable decks. Most of the faction boxes so far released have put factions on par with the top choices without suddenly swinging things in a new, obvious, and simple direction. Yes, I expect a lot of Cthulhu (we've seen a lot of it here in Pittsburgh for a few weeks), but there are answers to the challenges posed by the faction across a broad range of factions and strategies. I may be wrong, but I think this will prove to be a great time to play Cthulhu as either a new entrant into the game or a veteran like yourself.

P.S. FAQ good, yay.
  • WWDrakey, VonWibble, Unnamable and 1 other like this

#32
dboeren

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I agree w/ Wilbur - the meta right now is in a great place.  I think there are a wider variety of viable decks right now than at any point since I joined the game, maybe ever.  The pace has been slowed back a bit which also opens up more strategies.  So then, do we just have very different measures of what we feel makes a good game?  What do you want the game to be that it's not doing well right now?

 

Are there some really good cards in the faction boxes?  Absolutely, and this was a good idea.  First, FFG needed to give a boost to the factions that were too uncompetitive and seldom played in tournaments.  Remember a couple years ago when virtually every deck was Shub + <something>?  Second, to help revitalize interest they wanted to give players a good entry point into the game.  If you bought a Core + Box and ended up with a bunch of bad cards that's not going to motivate people to buy in, or stay in once they realize they're getting clobbered and need to buy a ton more stuff to play at even a casual level.  The faction boxes seem to be meeting both of these goals.



#33
TheJoker

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Ahh yes the ONE guy at gencon who played yithian mill. By my last count it was actually four. Cthuhlu forbid people play within all the rules of the game and want to win a major tournament with what they feel is the strongest deck build! For shame indeed. And I thought my jokes were bad.

#34
mnBroncos

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yea i never blamed the people that played yithians. at major tournaments you should always play the deck you think will win. going to worlds i am not going to bring just a "fun" deck. 



#35
dboeren

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If there is a problem in the environment I think it's better to expose it and work towards getting it fixed than to pretend it doesn't exist.  Part of proving that a fix is needed is that you need to play it and show it to be too dominant.


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#36
Unnamable

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Our local players have so far enjoyed every single deluxe box set! Great themes and mechanics, The Key and the Gate being no exception. The only real failures of the Yithian concept/The Key and the Gate IMO is that the designers should have included at least one answer to the discard effects in the Yog box for each faction. Providing some answers for some factions months down the line proved to be too little too late. The concept of Interstellar Migration is the other design failure. It made the ultimate focus of the Yithian subtype to be discard rather than a focus that supports committing to and winning stories. From my experience locally and in tournaments participating with those who travelled from afar the consensus has overwhelmingly been that the game is in a very good place. I hope that with the remaining 3 or so faction specific deluxe box expansions the designers have learned a lesson and we will not again see such a dilemma. The new faq could easily be interpreted as 'heavy handed' but as a participant in both Worlds 2013 and Gencon 2014 I say 'better safe than sorry'.



#37
Mulletcheese

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If there is a problem in the environment I think it's better to expose it and work towards getting it fixed than to pretend it doesn't exist.  Part of proving that a fix is needed is that you need to play it and show it to be too dominant.


I don't know if the dominance of the deck or the NPE was the biggest problem, it probably depends on the type of player you are. Playing the deck to prove its dominance just makes the environment more NPE, in that kind of situation you can't please everyone.

Ahh yes the ONE guy at gencon who played yithian mill. By my last count it was actually four. Cthuhlu forbid people play within all the rules of the game and want to win a major tournament with what they feel is the strongest deck build! For shame indeed. And I thought my jokes were bad.


Maybe the biggest problem is that the Y-Train caused a split in the CoC community, between those who were willing to run it and those who didn't want to play against it.

If this FAQ brings an end to the unofficial bannings, arguments about scrubs and persecution of specific decks then it's the best FAQ ever.

Time to draw a line under the whole yithian debacle and move on with our lives.
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#38
mnBroncos

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until worlds and someone finds a different broken combo haha 


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#39
Carthoris

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Even without being involved in a tournament scene, I could tell the Yog box needed a serious nerfing. If Even Death May Die had been in that box, it might have been a different story.

 

I think the Miskatonic box was rather on the weak side, and the Syndicate box seemed to hit a happy medium. Jury's still out on the Cthulhu box, of course, but it looks like it's somewhere between Syndicate and Yog (hopefully closer to the former). Just the few cards from the Agency box look scary tough to me, though.



#40
Tragic

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oblivious that was a joke about the "one guy"... but I think the problem though is perception.

There ISN'T a competitive CoC scene.

Well, there is but it is such a tony fraction of the player base. Forums like this as they are mainly stocked by competitive players give a false sense of the game. This game is firmly in the casuals and it should be for them that the design should be supporting.

Who exactly is exploiting this "meta" in CoC. From the time of the new deluxe expansions the game has undergone massive changes form a deep game of calculation and control to one that is all about speed and combo crazyness. Sure while competitive players can sit and talk about how one deck is so powerful this is all meaningless to the majority of players that are looking for a fun game experience, not related to trying to win at all costs.

Now in a "live" game sure.. the competitive scene counts. Still it is a arms race, leading to more and more brutal games with decks completely shutting down and running rampage over others. Yith-Mill is just the tip of the ice berg.. more like it are incoming. The game as it is now, with so few players and only a tony fraction of them competitive, the designers need to refocus on the player experience or the games days are numbered.

The fact is nowadays, the competitive scene in coc is so small and so inconsequential.
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