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Ku'gath Plaguefather Deck Thread

Kugath Chaos Nurgle

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#1
Kaic

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I know there was a Plaguefather Cometh deck thread earlier, but that kind of morphed into a spoiler/general thread for the scourge battlepack.  So, I felt it best to make another thread to discuss Ku'gath.  Plus this thread follows the standard naming convention we have used so far and will be easier to find as new cards are released.

 

Right now, I feel that the card pool doesn't support Ku'gath very well, so he is very firmly in my casual/experimental category for Warlords at the moment.  However, I love Nurgle and find the moving damage theme to be interesting.  Here is the deck that I have so far:

 

 
 
Total Cards: (50)
 
Warlord: 
 
 
Army Unit: (32)
4x Kugath’s Nurglings (The Scourge)  
3x Bad Dok (Core Set)  
3x Chaos Fanatics (Core Set)  
3x Heretek Inventor (The Howl of Blackmane)  
3x Khorne Berzerker (Core Set)  
3x Rogue Trader (Core Set)  
3x Splintered Path Acolyte (Core Set)  
3x Vicious Bloodletter (Core Set)  
3x Virulent Plague Squad (Core Set)  
3x Void Pirate (Core Set)  
1x Xavaes Split-Tongue (Core Set)  
 
Attachment: (1)
1x The Plaguefather’s Banner (The Scourge)  
 
Event: (12)
2x Fetid Haze (The Scourge)  
3x Promise of Glory (Core Set)  
1x Smash ‘n Bash (The Howl of Blackmane)  
3x Tzeentch’s Firestorm (Core Set)  
3x Warpstorm (Core Set)  
 
Support: (5)
1x Vile Laboratory (The Scourge)  
1x Fortress of Madness (Core Set)  
3x Ork Kannon (Core Set)  
 
The idea is to use self damaging cards to help maximize the damage movement effects.  These cards include, Nurglings, Smash 'n Bash (I'm considering a 2nd one of these), Warpstorm, and Ork Kannon.  I did add Virulent Plague Squad to give myself another Nurgle unit to target.  I couldn't quite bring myself to add Deathguard Infantry though.  I did take a look at using DE as allies, but there didn't seem to be a lot of synergy there.

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#2
Asklepios

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Thanks for the posting. I agree on Orks, just because Ork Kannon is dead handy when you have an undamaged Ku'gath and first strike.

 

I've not tested Smash n' Bash here, but I like the thinking.

 

I think you're over-committing to the "benefit from damaged" concept - I think the Berzerkers are weaker here than in Zarathur, as no Infernal Gateway, and another daemon would work better. I think Bad Doks remain a trap, and are as bad for Ku'gath as they are for Nazdreg.

 

Popup links don't work, so here's my non popup version:

 

A Plague on your Deck v3

Deck Created with CardGameDB.com  Warhammer 40,000: Conquest Deckbuilder
 

Total Cards: (50)

Warlord:
1x Ku’gath Plaguefather (The Scourge)


Army Unit: (29)
4x Kugath’s Nurglings (The Scourge)
3x Chaos Fanatics (Core Set)
3x Heretek Inventor (The Howl of Blackmane)
3x Rogue Trader (Core Set)
3x Splintered Path Acolyte (Core Set)
3x Vicious Bloodletter (Core Set)
3x Void Pirate (Core Set)
2x Xavaes Split-Tongue (Core Set)
2x Black Legion Heldrake (Core Set)
3x Shoota Mob (Core Set)

 

The usual suspects. Dakka is less meta-shifting than I thought, so the low cost command icons are staying in. Ku'gath plays a longer game than Zarathur, I find,  so Shoota Mobs over Goff Boyz.

 

Attachment: (6)

1x The Plaguefather’s Banner (The Scourge)
2x Dire Mutation (Core Set)
3x Promotion (Core Set)

 

Dire Mutation synergises well with attrition damage. May go up to three

 

 

Event: (10)

 

2x Fetid Haze (The Scourge)
3x Promise of Glory (Core Set)
3x Tzeentch’s Firestorm (Core Set)
2x Warpstorm (Core Set)

 

Strongly considering dropping Promise to Glory and the big daemons, but not that brave yet. That would let me run more units, and Dire Mutation at 3.

 

 

Support: (5)

 

1x Vile Laboratory (The Scourge)
1x Fortress of Madness (Core Set)
3x Ork Kannon (Core Set)
 

Just the obvious choices


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#3
Kaic

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Thanks for the post Asklepios, the deck I have posted I made today (I didn't get the pack until yesterday), so I haven't had a chance to really play test it yet (I will tonight).

 

I kept going back and forth on Dire Mutation, I believe it was the final card that I ended up cutting out in favor of Smash 'n Bash.  I might have too strong of a focus on the self damage cards, but I do have some pretty high hopes for Smash 'n bash in the deck since you could use it and immediately attack again to remove the damage.  In fact, the more I'm thinking about it the more I want to bump it to 2.

 

What I find interesting is that you don't feel Khorne Berzerkers are worth it with Ku'Gath.  I know that we don't have infernal gateway, but the do get benefit from the self damaging aspect due to Brutal.  I thought that they would actually be better here than with Zarathur.  You could be right about Bad Dok though, I really want to like that card.  We will see what I think after I try the deck tonight.  There is a good chance I will probably have some changes for tomorrow.

 

One thing I find interesting is you mention dropping Promise for Glory and the big daemons.  What are you considering running instead?



#4
kizerman86

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A local player has been wrecking people with Ork Cannons + Plaguefather's Banner on Ku'Gath and Dire Mutations for Honored Librarian hate.  Smash and Bash has been strong too.  I'm super impressed with the deck and will be building a version soon.


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#5
Killax

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On my phone now so I cant share!

Have to say I like what Im seeing barring the Plague Squad.

Im also currently thinking of what to add as a nice replacement or filler. Again Im looking at the Flesh Hounds for being an option but have to admit Im unsure. Moreso than Orks I feel Chaos did not get dignificantly better but play a different game now. A game that is more rewarded often in terms of Warlord flexability. However at the same time I do feel Ku'gath folds against Cato.

The place filler Flesh Hounds will have will be probably there until Gleefull Plague beast.

Deck comming soon!

Also great call on the Berserker, its good. Im currently also testing some in place of a Burna Boyz with Zarathur and it does not fail.

#6
sparrowhawk

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Well done starting this thread, Kaic, sir!

Most intrigued by Kizer's comment about this warlord "wrecking people" and also Dire Mutation. Is that negative attachment really rated now? I could see its marginal value in Zarathur because of the damage pump and possible Tzeentch recursion (though it often prevented you recursing what you really wanted). But with Ku'gath? It also anti-synergises with Warpstorm. I'm not convinced.

I think Zarathur was always better with a swarm of weenies due to his ability. It was perverse that he had a pump but was in the faction of elites! That's why my best success with him was upgrading AoE and ranged in DE or with Snotling Attack weenie Orks. The other issue was it always seemed suboptimal to include Allies as he didn't make them threats.

Now, with Ku'gath, we surely have the opportunity to build Chaos very differently to Zarathur's low end focus. Especially when Nurglings can slaughter your weenies. Yes, it's finally time to explore the Daemon package that was suboptimal for Zarathur (beyond Bloodletter's AoE).

So I seem to have gone a similar direction to Asklepios, just more so.

Ku'gath - using cards at release only

29 Units

Cappers
3 Heretek (such anti-synergy with Nurglings but still good cheap deterrent ownership of 1 planet)
3 Pirates
3 Traders
3 Acolytes
3 Fanatics
4 Nurglings (deterrence aura grows with HQ train, Rules Clarification here key to being playable)

Mid Range
3 Berserker (for Brutal synergy, Promote them or Bloodletter)
1 Xaeves (amazing ability any good player will avoid triggering, harder without Tzeentch burn)

Elite Daemons
3 Bloodletter (obligatory)
3 Heldrake (go for the best for Y'varn and Fall Back! returns from HQ exhausted)

21 Non-Units

Daemon Support
3 Promise of Glory (again sig units are are Daemons)
2 Fall Back!
2 Smash'n'Bash - Kurgath and Daemons double strike, also useful for culling liability Nurglings

Self Damage
3 Ork Kannon
3 Warpstorm
2 Fetid Haze (for Ku'gath healing)

Attachments
3 Promotion (also protects vs. Warpstorm)
1 Banner (on Ku'gath, but this immunises from Warpstorm)

Other Supports
1 Fortress of Madness (23 Chaos units, just 5 Orks cards)
1 Vile Laboratory (usually to bully planet 1 with ideally a planet 2 Nurgling)


So only Tzeentch cards are the Acolytes, no room for Firestorm which is never played anyway (due to shields mechanic), a 2 shields card. In the end, I felt the warlord is the heavy hitter along with the 6 Daemons his cultists summon. Almost everything else is simply support for those combat units delivering the win condition.

Playing with Nurglings is a logistical nightmare as they can harm you so much. Until Chaos gets the sacrifice for benefit card that it needs, I really can't see this warlord being competitive. I would assume it may trigger off Nurgle and be very good, making all the bad Nurgle cards suddenly good.

I suspect that the finished concept could actually be very different. Deathguard Infantry hints this may focus on cost 3+ Chaos units for Throne of Vainglory + Murder Cogitator synergy. That's the only card interaction that I can see in that awful card. It may even play Calamity as the 2 cost Calamity / 3 cost Throne threshold seems like too much coincidence.

I also don't feel Heretek is meant for Kurgath due to the Nurgling self-damage but it is better than pricier Bad Dok (agree with Asklepios that with only Kannons as damage, very hard for Bad Dok move to Nurgling, it's a trap), Hereteks always played first of course.

I assume Nurglings are played as "mines" on key planets the opponent must take, trying to force the opponent down a suboptimal planets path. And self-damage enablers for their masochistic master, of course, when he commits there.

I have to give FFG credit for exploring very different mechanics with each of these warlords. None of the laziness of Straken and Zarathur. This one certainly feels very unfinished but also interesting. And probably the most challenging to date.

Now, that's my initial take on Ku'gath and I'm sure it can be improved vastly. However, can someone please explain to me why Dire Mutation is suddenly such a great 1 cost card with this warlord?
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#7
MotoBuzzsawMF

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Now, that's my initial take on Ku'gath and I'm sure it can be improved vastly. However, can someone please explain to me why Dire Mutation is suddenly such a great 1 cost card with this warlord?

 

I have seen the popularity of Dire Mutation grow drastically over the past couple weeks and I agree with it being a pretty good card.

  1. it is a combat trick to drop, so you can possibly clear 1 HP units from combat without having to commit a unit to attack. 
  2. It forces your opponent to either destroy those 1 HP units or waste an out of combat shield card on them. 
  3. It is retrievable with Shrine for repeat.

I agree that the card is better out of Zara because 2 damage is always better than one. But it is indispensable against Librarians, Eager Recruits, Khymera's, etc.

I don't play a ton of Chaos currently, but when I take a swing with Kugath, I will probably find room in my deck for at least 2.


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#8
sparrowhawk

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Out of combat? Oh, I have just realised that it damages on exhaust commit! And if Zara also committed, that would be 2? Because you move then exhaust as opposed to exhaust then attack. Yeah, I see its value now in Zara builds.

I still think paying 1C1R to deal 1 damage per exhaust is not that great for Ku'gath. Yeah, you may get profit on an Alpha Legion. But a Trailblazer or Incubus already gained at least 1 command struggle benefit for the extra 1R lost. And any other 1HP unit is at no advantage to your cost. I guess the crippling of a higher HP unit like Librarian is its value.

Thanks for the lesson, Buzz! Feel so embarrassed learning all that I've missed. At the risk of seeming stubborn, I don't think Ku'gath benefits enough to warrant its inclusion. But I will now have to test because it's a card I've ignored until I suddenly today saw it in lists from very sensible, highly competent posters. I knew then I had missed something... Cheers!

#9
Minute

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My original post was really negative on Ku'Gath.  Rather than going there, I'm just going to ask, how do people see him working?  Overall he feels way too reliant on your opponent helping you (damaging the units you want damaged first, etc.) and combos that require lots of cards (need to get a Nurgle guy, a Fetid Haze, AND the 1 drop banner).

 

I don't know about you guys but I've been finding the most difficult part of playing Chaos to be keeping cards in my hand.  It feels really easy for my opponents to focus on card choke and suddenly I can't get the cards I need to make things tick.  By turn 4 or 5, unless I got off to a really great start, I'm usually struggling to get anythiing beyond a planet or 2 in the command struggle, and my opponents usually make sure I'm not getting the card planets.



#10
Kingsley

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Plaguefather's Banner is incredibly powerful, it IMO instantly replaced Tallassarian Tempest Blade as the best signature attachment in the game. I'm not sure how Ku'gath decks will end up faring overall, but Fetid Haze and Plaguefather's Banner can both produce huge swings. The downside is that Ku'gath's Nurglings seem quite weak and overall you have less support and utility than with Zarathur.



#11
Killax

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For sure I agree on the Banner and still like the decks posted above.

 

Personally I am still not a fan of Smash n Bash, again I could only see it work in such a few occasions I'd rather run other cards over it.

Much like Dire Mutation (which is great with Zarathur, sparrowhakw :D). I agree this deck doesn't really need it.

 

I still feel that Chaos is unable to reach the top as SM or DE have but this is mainly due to the lack of 2 Shield Event/Attachment cards to work with...

 

Here is my current thake on Ku'gath (which is comparable to many other decks posted here so I should be in the right direction I guess):

 



#12
Kaic

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I played my first games with Ku'gath last night, I'm going to put together and updated deck and post it today.  So far my initial impression is that I definitely underestimated Ku'gath he is pretty close tot he level of Zarathur.  Bad Dok doesn't really work here, I think part of my problem is I really want that card to work well, so I keep trying it.

 

My original post was really negative on Ku'Gath.  Rather than going there, I'm just going to ask, how do people see him working?  Overall he feels way too reliant on your opponent helping you (damaging the units you want damaged first, etc.) and combos that require lots of cards (need to get a Nurgle guy, a Fetid Haze, AND the 1 drop banner).

 

Don't forget, Ku'gath is a Nurgle card.  This means that if your opponent isn't attacking the units you want damaged, they aren't attacking your Warlord!  That alone is a good thing.  The Ku'gath decks so far have a lot of cards that will damage your own units, so you don't really need to wait for your opponent to attack.  Last thing to note is your 3 card combo.  You start with a Nurgle guy in play (Ku'gath), Fetid Haze and the banner are both great cards on their own, so you don't really need all 3.



#13
Killax

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Yep very valid points Kaic,

 

Personally the main reason why I feel he's at least at the level of Zarathur is because the game "punishes" Warlords more that commit to a planet where a multitude of units are allready present. Zarathur's ability however likes you to do just that.

With punish I mean that you 1. Seek out more dangerous situations where an opponent is able to punish a 1/6 body better and 2. Because of seeking out those battles you cannot really thake back ideal opponent's set ups in the command struggle.

 

Ku'gath on the other hand can quite savely go to any planet that has a 2/1 1 drop. There is a bit more of a risk but because of his ability you can quite savely know he will be able to at least kill X/1 bodies, something Zarathur currently cannot replicate.

On the other hand the Events and Attachment Ku'gath carries with him are directly able to heal your Warlord or make him more of a beater. Again something Zarathur cannot replicate.


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#14
gawbo005

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My original post was really negative on Ku'Gath.  Rather than going there, I'm just going to ask, how do people see him working?  Overall he feels way too reliant on your opponent helping you (damaging the units you want damaged first, etc.) and combos that require lots of cards (need to get a Nurgle guy, a Fetid Haze, AND the 1 drop banner).

 

I don't know about you guys but I've been finding the most difficult part of playing Chaos to be keeping cards in my hand.  It feels really easy for my opponents to focus on card choke and suddenly I can't get the cards I need to make things tick.  By turn 4 or 5, unless I got off to a really great start, I'm usually struggling to get anythiing beyond a planet or 2 in the command struggle, and my opponents usually make sure I'm not getting the card planets.

Ku'gath is an amazing warlord. Yesterday when I played my brothers DE. I sent him solo vs 2 tokens, incubai warrior, and and hellion gang. I was able to solo them all because of fetid haze. He has the potential to be a big lane bully with potential to be the most powerful warlord. 



#15
Kaic

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Ok, here is my updated decklist

 

 
 
Total Cards: (50)
 
Warlord: 
 
 
Army Unit: (29)
 
Attachment: (3)
 
Event: (13)
 
Support: (5)
 
Removed:
-3 Bad Dok
-3 Virulent Plague Squad
 
Overall, I felt my deck did really well last night.  I won most of the games that I played (lost to a DE choke).  As I stated earlier, Bad Dok didn't really work out, I should probably just give up on this card.  Virulent Plague Squad is not worth having another Nurgle unit.  I thought that maybe it would finally give it the boost it needed, but it didn't.  On the plus side, between Ku'gath and Nurglings, there is more than enough Nurgle units for the current number of cards that require nurgle units.  Still, more will be better so hopefully we will see some good Nurgle units in the future.
 
Now for my inclusions:

+3 Ravenous Flesh Hounds
+1 Smash 'n Bash
+2 Promotion
 
While Ravenous Flesh Hounds don't directly synergize with the Nurgle traits, it does synergize with Ku'gath's playstyle.  From my games last night it feels that Ku'gath is in it for the long game, he wants a lot of very resilient units so that he can slowly wear down the enemy.  FleshHounds are very resilient and can stay around for a long time.  This could be replaced with Gleeful Plaguebeast in the future, it depends on exactly what the stats are on that card.  +1 Smash n' Bash, I got a lot of good use out of this card, it helped me by increasing the amount of damage on my warlord, and (in the case of having the banner), was even a sort of heal card for Ku'gath (1 damage to stand and attack again, removing 2).  So far, this feels like the best deck I've tried this card in and I definitely want to run two for awhile and see if it was just one night of awesome plays with it, or if it is actually good here.  +2 promotion is to help offset removing Bad Dok.  I might consider switching these out for shoota mob just to have more command units, we will see.  Thoughts?

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#16
Killax

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Thoughts?

 

 

Currently can't come up with something much better as your list. I do run the Bad Dok 2x now but I havn't seen it enough in order to say it should leave or stay.

 

The Smash n Bash (which I still dislike) will probably see some use with the Bloodletters and Fleshounds but I still feel like it's uses are to narrow. When I would want it I want to see opposing Warlords at the same planet and (this could be my opponent) it almost never happens that I see a game where I would need Smash n Bash and could use it. 

 

Apart from that I have to once again say I think your example of the deck currently is one of the best. Do know that Dire Mutation still can very much come in handy and is way less restrictive. It doesn't deal 2 damage much like Zarathur makes out of this but with certain Ku'gath situations it can add up to 1+1 quite easliy.

The biggest advantage this card gives you is more shields and a removal card for Cost 1 for x/1 or x/2 bodies. You could consider dropping Smash n Bash 2x and Fortress of Madness 1x for 3x Dire Mutation...



#17
Kaic

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Apart from that I have to once again say I think your example of the deck currently is one of the best. Do know that Dire Mutation still can very much come in handy and is way less restrictive. It doesn't deal 2 damage much like Zarathur makes out of this but with certain Ku'gath situations it can add up to 1+1 quite easliy.

The biggest advantage this card gives you is more shields and a removal card for Cost 1 for x/1 or x/2 bodies. You could consider dropping Smash n Bash 2x and Fortress of Madness 1x for 3x Dire Mutation...

 

Dire Mutation is at the top of the list of cards that I want to include from the current card pool.  You do have some good points on Smash 'n bash, the limitation that an enemy warlord isn't present does hurt it.  However, between Ku'gath's ability and the banner, I found enemy Warlord's did not like being at the same planet as Ku'gath.  This left a lot more openings for Smash 'n Bash.  As I said though, I want to run it 2x for awhile and see if it was just one night of awesome plays, or if it's simply a matter of my opponents being surprised by their first meeting with Ku'gath.



#18
Killax

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Looking forward to your experiences with Smash n Bash again. In many cases the problem I remain to have with this card is that it's windows for good use are very limited. Not only because of cost but also because of planet line-ups that can force a fast game. In a way in order to use Smash n Bash to your advantage you also have to put yourself in a disadvantage in special because I agree with you that Ku'gath can also become a hunter with the Banner...


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#19
Liyan

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Not a single warpack in the philippines. :(
I cant give insights or playtest results. :(

#20
Killax

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Not a single warpack in the philippines. :(
I cant give insights or playtest results. :(

 

Print & Proxy my friend, if your opponents are interested in competitive play they'll do the same...

 

and 

 

OCTGN







Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: Kugath, Chaos, Nurgle