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Torquemada Coteaz Deck Thread

Torquemada Coteaz Inquisitor The Threat Beyond

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#1
Killax

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After the appearance of future AM cards in other threads we can now fully see the cards available to Coteaz when his Warpack is released.

 

- Altough early, I and our playing group allow Proxy cards and this is also the same for Warlords and their signature cards. As such it gives you a global feeling on what works and doesn't for certain Warlords.

- The advantage of this is that it allows you to directly thake Coteaz into competative formats or know where his strenghts are and weaknesses.

Note: In all playtests the bloodied version of Coteaz was represented by a 1/5 Torquemada Coteaz, without ability, this due to the difficulty of bloody-ing him in the first place (8HP) and his Attachment where just like Ku'gath, Aun'Shi and others grand him additional ATK (and them some).

 

Currently the deck is as follows:

 

0 (5)
1 (12)

The basic idea here is to make use of Coteaz's strong starting hand and resources, by playing out the full hand a strong Command presence is guaranteed. The 3 and 4 drops are cut to a minimum, basicly they are only there to gain more cardadvantage as a result.

 

A couple of cards that currently didn't make the cut:

- Captain Markis, a very potent card but like Coteaz also very demanding in cards. As such I decided to cut him so Coteaz has more cards available. The exhaust effect still is very powerfull but unless opponents retreat Coteaz is very able to remove a multitude of pieces in order to come out victorious.

- Assault Valkyrie, while fantastic is also a huge body, often not worth it for Coteaz to sacrifice, as such the synergy between these cards is to little to make great use out of it.

- Supressive Fire, while still very good I try to steer away from this card because the new aim is to either hit hard with normal ATK or hit hard with Ranged. This card might eventually find it's place in the deck again.

 

A couple of very interesting combinations, something this deck feeds on, much like Aun'Shi needs his combination cards in order to be dominant:

- To Arms! causes some insane combinations with Catachan Outpost, Formosan Black Ship and Staging Ground when needed.

- Staging Ground, makes Mystic Warden (and most other drops) have Ambush. In special Mystic Warden combined with Elysian Assault Team allow for a very unexpected battle. Staging Ground also allows Coteaz to be deployed much more freely, something he doesn't always initially need (due to the heavy plays on turn 1) but does come in handy during the later stages of the game where opponents might have disrupted the set up more. Staging Ground + Inquisitor Acolythe also allows for much more use out of those 2 cards, causing some very unexpected battle results.

- Cadian Mortar Squad, allows you to 'ping' multiple units if needed combined with Coteaz's ability. Initially I wasn't very impressed by the card but the advantage gained from this can become quite big with a Catachan Outpost + To Arms!

 

Cards that are still on the table and will be tested eventually:

- Enginseer Augur

- Muster the Guard, the card does allow for a heavier costed Coteaz deck. It will be tested evenentually but does force the removal of Mystic Warden and Staging Ground.

- Steel Legion Chimera, what this card does is something I like a lot. Altough currently I favour Inerrogator Acolythe and Mortar Squad over it due to more direct synergy with Coteaz. I feel SLC is something for the future where AM will be able to run full/heavy vechicle...

- Ammo Depot, as suggested by some Coteaz can create the demand for cards quicker as other Warlords in the game. As such I would probably drop Staging Ground all together for Ammo Depots.

 

Even moreso than Aun'Shi this deck feeds heavily on multiple card combinations. However with the starting hand of Coteaz and strong Command presence of AM overall it is quite possible to come out on top quickly.

As mentioned before Staging Ground allows much more flexible deployment for Coteaz, so it might eventually end up 3x in this deck, in special combined with Mystic Warden it can set of a very potent battle out of nowhere.

 

Hope you like this initial sketch, I am looking very forward to more decklists from you guys!

Feedback is always welcome.

 

Cheers,


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#2
taider54

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I like your list. I would definitely add Enginseer Augur, who better to sacrifice than him..it?

 

Personally, I think ork would be a good fit for Coteaz. Ork Kannons and Ammo Depot could help that deck a lot.


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#3
starkjoy

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I was wondering how the hell you knew what his signature cards are and then I finally looked at the thread for the 5th war pack.

 

I don't know where I've been.  :wacko:


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#4
Asklepios

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I agree on Ork ally.

For Enginseer Augur, as I said on the other thread, that cards time is definitely here. However, our old friend the hypergeometric calculator basically demands that if we want this card to be efficient, we have to pass a certain threshold of Support cards.

 

My estimate:

 

Augur is 2 for 0/2/2 with no good traits.

0/2/2 with no good traits is worth 1 resource at best.

A guaranteed free draw-->play and a support worth up to 1-2 resources is probably worth about 3 resources. However, the delay to this effect weakens it, so lets call that worth 2 resources.

So for the effect to be worthwhile, we need a hit rate of at least 50% for it to be of decent value, what I'd call a 3/5 card, as lack of consistency will be a problem that goes beyond mere probabilities. That requires about 6 AM Supports.

For the card to be reasonably strong, we need a hit rate of around 75%, I'd say. That requires about 10 AM supports.

But AM is looking really good right now by the time of Coteaz, and to justify its presence, I'd say I'd want a 90% hit rate. Thats 15 AM Supports.

 

Regardless, I'd say 10-15 AM supports is the threshold for running Augur. Because Staging Ground supports Augur, I'm willing to accept the lower end of that.

 

For me, we need to say:

 

3 x Staging Ground

3 x Inquisitorial Fortress

3 x Catachan Outpost

3 x Rockcrete Bunker

 

Then we play 3 Enginseer Augurs, and we play 30-32 other units, mostly AM units from 1-2 cost but also cheap Ork units with command. We also run Ammo Depot at x3, I reckon.

 

Beyond that, no messing around. Maybe 2-3 Valkyries for finishing power, likely 3 Promotions as they're cheap to play and help Ammo Depot. Essentially, we end up with a deck that is just fantastically good at command, has no events save signature ones, and a true horde play. Yes, every move will be telegraphed and on the board, but sheer efficiency will leave us with a faction that is T1 competitive.


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#5
Killax

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I like your list. I would definitely add Enginseer Augur, who better to sacrifice than him..it?

Personally, I think ork would be a good fit for Coteaz. Ork Kannons and Ammo Depot could help that deck a lot.


Thanks! Yeah the difference is going the Augur route with Ammo Depot vs going the Mystic Warden route. Both seem viable with the real difference of Warden gaining Ambush. Which is great on a 2/2 body. Besides that it allows Coteaz to move more freely. Something Ive learned to love with Ku'gath and Aun'Shi.

Cotaez also allready will be able to find key pieces easier. As such Ive going the heavy card combinations route. Which might change.

Ammo Depot still seems good to me altough with the Command presence available to AM and Orks might be more usefull for Chaos...

Thanks for the feedback!
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#6
Killax

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As for Augur same as ECT 10 Support are the minimum. Will do an Ork version soon!
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#7
Killax

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While it's still early I do think Orks offer another powerfull ally aswell. In special if we will see an Ork unit that when gets destroyed grands you a Snotling token (would be cool for Zogwort aswell) it would grand Cotaez more power for his presence.

 

Here is my very sketchy thake on the Ork variant, this time without Staging Ground and Mystic Wardens:

 

1 (15)

 

Unlike the above version this aims for an even more aggressive play. The advantage of this is that much like Aun'Shi you try to create a boardstate where it's very difficult for your opponent to savely deploy. 

 

Planet 1 will be ocupied by Goff Boyz (and or more units) and Planet 2 to 5 can see single Snotling token besides the allready strong Command presence, allowing to at least let Cotaez swing in for 3 everywhere he decided to go. 

I know many are not giant fans of the Snotling Attack but as an alternative to the "AoE spam" you try to create with the above SM allience you can now effectively turn Cotaez in a 3/8 at pretty much any planet, besides granting another body to swing with.

 

Last but not least Ammo Depot is added for the mid to lategame to make sure you can continue to put up pressure. Because the card can also "work against itself" in multitudes I felt 2 where sufficient.

The suggested Enginseer Augur is also added and I do have to say I like the suggestion here, in special when you net a Inquisitorial Fortress or Catachan Outpost (and have a To Arms! in hand) things can get crazy quick.

 

Thanks for the suggestions so far guys!

 

Cheers,


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#8
HidaHonk

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I prefer your ork version of the deck. The reason is simple. Ammo depot aka free carddraw is king. At the end conquest, even more than other games, is about resources. And ammo depot gives the most important resource. Haven t playtest anything later than the scourge, i am not sure about the usefulness of ot arms! I see the synergies, but you have only 4 targets?
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#9
VonWibble

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Warlord:
1x Torquemade Coteaz


Army Unit: (33)
4x Coteaz' Henchmen
3x Elysian Assault Team
3x Goff Boyz
3x Interrogator Acolyte
3x Ratling Deadeye
3x Tallarn Raiders
2x Cadian Mortar Squad
1x Captain Markis
3x Iron Guard Platoon
2x Shoota Mob
3x Stalwart Ogryn
3x Void Pirate

Attachment: (1)
1x Glendovan Eagle

Event: (11)
2x The Emperor Protects
3x Noble Deed
3x Preemptive Barrage
3x Snotling Attack

Support: (9)
2x Catachan Outpost
2x Inquisitorial Fortress
1x Formosan Black Ship
2x Ammo Depot
2x Staging Area


This is my first draft. A lot of 2x cards in there for the moment as I like to do this before deciding which cards work as 3x and which get cut.

Its at 54 cards for now so will need trimming, probably on supports. It would be nice to find room for Mystic Warden too, possibly a replacement for Stalwart Ogryn?

#10
Killax

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I prefer your ork version of the deck. The reason is simple. Ammo depot aka free carddraw is king. At the end conquest, even more than other games, is about resources. And ammo depot gives the most important resource. Haven t playtest anything later than the scourge, i am not sure about the usefulness of ot arms! I see the synergies, but you have only 4 targets?

 

Thanks! I do agree with you that Orks offer something Cotaez really likes and those are indeed cards (Ammo Depot) and bodies to sacrifice (ideally Snotling Tokens).

I also fully agree that Ammo Depot grands you very important pieces and in special against Choke is a very effective card. The downside of Ammo Depot remains however than once your ahead of the game it does nothing. Which doesn't sound to bad until Exterminatus and Doom gain more favours in the meta. In special Exterminatus can be quite devastating against the set ups Cotaez needs, in wich turn the Ammo Depot "help" might come to late.

 

- To Arms! does indeed have about 4 different targets (but more in card quantity). However it's main use is to get more 2 Shield icons in the deck and lategame abuse Catachan Outpost and Formosan Black Ship. In special untapping Formosan Black Ship is rather nuts with Cotaez...

 

Warlord:
1x Torquemade Coteaz


Army Unit: (33)
4x Coteaz' Henchmen
3x Elysian Assault Team
3x Goff Boyz
3x Interrogator Acolyte
3x Ratling Deadeye
3x Tallarn Raiders
2x Cadian Mortar Squad
1x Captain Markis
3x Iron Guard Platoon
2x Shoota Mob
3x Stalwart Ogryn
3x Void Pirate

Attachment: (1)
1x Glendovan Eagle

Event: (11)
2x The Emperor Protects
3x Noble Deed
3x Preemptive Barrage
3x Snotling Attack

Support: (9)
2x Catachan Outpost
2x Inquisitorial Fortress
1x Formosan Black Ship
2x Ammo Depot
2x Staging Area


This is my first draft. A lot of 2x cards in there for the moment as I like to do this before deciding which cards work as 3x and which get cut.

Its at 54 cards for now so will need trimming, probably on supports. It would be nice to find room for Mystic Warden too, possibly a replacement for Stalwart Ogryn?

 

Looks like a great sketch to me. Altough I do have to say, I would indeed drop the Stalwart Orgyn's. While still being a good card, this card becomes a signature "pain in the behind" with Straken. For Coteaz cards like Warp Storm etc still hurt but if you expect that, you can still just eat your own card.

 

I also would like to suggest To Arms! In this deck, in special because of Catachan Outpost but even moreso for Ammo Depot, Staging Ground and Formosan Black Ship. It allows you to "cycle" with Ammo Depot and the main reason we don't need more than 2 Staging Ground in the deck is because you can potentially untap it for free. Besides all these options it aslo holds 2 Shields, which in my opinion make it straight up better as Noble Deed, Bodyguard and the other more "defensive" AM Events.



#11
FedericoFasullo

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So. I've been playing with AM recently. I wanted to play this faction because I believe that Torquemada is a good warlord, so I'm having some practice trying to avoid being a rookie when I'll build a deck with Torqy. 
Anyway.
The more I'm playing Straquen the more I'm thinking that Torkemada is not that good.
 
There are few reasons which I'll try to explain in my bad english.
 
Straken's signature is focused on swarm! You will abuse of the Guardsmen wich are pretty bad-ass in the same planet with your warlord. They are 2/2 which is huge for a token. 
Having a lot of cheap dudes means a good sinergy with my favourite AM cards: Markis and Cadian Mortar Squad (CMS have a big potential with Straken). Area effects might be a problem but you have Suppressive fire, Markis and Inquisitorial Fortress. You can control stuff!
And Straken power is a little bit underwhelming (compared to others WL) but with CMS and all the soldiers around it makes a lot of damages!
 
Torquemada needs to kill one of your guys every turn to attack. And believe me it's a pain. You can run 3 Suppressive Fire and exaust Torquemada but... it's kinda piteful, warlords are there to fight!
There will be a lot of scenario where you won't have no one to sacrifice and -most important- Torquemada cannot take planets alone!!! Unlike Aun'shi you cannot even aim to a draw! It's pretty much a mess because using you warlord to clean planets with few units is one of the most important job your WL has. ("You had one job, for the god of sake, and you're doing it wrong!")
Torquemada has a weak sinergy with Markis and CMS (the first for obvious reasons the second because the 2nd point in attack that grants you Straken is really a lot!)
Torquemada signature is not focused on swarm! And it's fair because it will be pretty much OP otherwise, but... it's less consistent. There are few chances you can sustain a long battle with Torquemada. You will kill your own guys and your opponent can easily take advantage of that: he just have to kill the small guys first leaving you in the planet with only strong (and expensive) units and a warlord that needs something to be fueled. And... well... will you save cheap units with shields just to sacrifice them to your warlord? Pretty much distorted.
 
Ok, 8 cards and 8 reources on T1. It can be good but, you know, RAID!
 
So, what do you think?


#12
Asklepios

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My first thought on rereading this thread was that back in post 4 I valued 0/2/2 as worth "at most 1 resource". Mystic Warden has added to that data set, I think, and its existence makes me even less inclined to pay 2 resources for Engnseer Augur.

 

Re: the 8/8 hand/resources, I think for sure, being Raided will be a bummer, but at worst that'll flip things to being 8 cards / 7 resources for you and 8 resources / 7 cards for the DEldar player. Compare that to the usual situation, where most warlords are on 7 cards / 6 resources after being hit for Raid...

 

The big thing here though is the 8 cards, however. Increasing the search depth to 8 cards has a big effect on the way decks find cards. On the face of it, an increase in chance from 37% to 41% of getting 1 card of 3 from a 50 card deck seems pretty insignificant, and in that sense an 8 card hand doesn't make much difference. However, thats wholly deceptive, as the real gain is in the strength of command hands as a whole in turn 1. If we say, for example, that 25 cards in a 50 card deck are cards we'd consider desirable in turn 1, the chance of getting 4 or more of them goes up from 50% to 65%, and thats without the multiplying power of mulligans (say 88% chance of a great command hand with a mulligan rule, as opposed to 75%). It should be consistent for a Coteaz deck to have really great command hands on turn 1, compared to Straken.

 

I think FFG have done really well carefully balancing the math here: I think Coteaz is almost certainly weaker than Straken in terms of stats and abilities, but that 8/8 start compensates for things beautifully.


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#13
Killax

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- Straken's signature is focused on swarm! 

- There will be a lot of scenario where you won't have no one to sacrifice and -most important- Torquemada cannot take planets alone!!!
- Torquemada has a weak sinergy with Markis and CMS (the first for obvious reasons the second because the 2nd point in attack that grants you Straken is really a lot!)
- Torquemada signature is not focused on swarm!
- So, what do you think?

 

 

 

- I still strongely believe Straken is more focused on attrition. His signature squad allow for this and Ogryns seem to be his second signature squad who also allow for this.

- Snotling Attack should allow you to have at least 1 body at 4 planets in many scenario's.

- Imho he has weak synergy with Markis but I am not a huge fan of Markis anyway. Mainly because his body isn't to special anymore for 2 Command (thanks to IGR and SP) but his ability is also nothing like say Syren Zythlex'. CMS actually does have great synergy with him...

- Torquemada's signature indeed is not focused on swarm. It is focused around Coteaz however, which imho is really good.

- See below...

 

First of I'd say there are going to be valid points for the both of them and that's really good/important. Neither will factor another out but both have a very different playstyle. Straken is very able to play an Aggro game soon but still has 6 HP to work with, as soon as he's bloodied, there is little you can do with the multitude of 2 ATK bodies that are present in his deck. Which often means you'll like to set up battles that highly favour Straken before going full aggro with him.

 

So to see both in their respectfull tactics In a way Straken is AM's Cato and Coteaz is AM's Ragnar, if you understand what Im trying to say with that. 

 

Despite the "card loss" Coteaz will have having 3 ATK and 8 HP to work with is nothing to sneeze at. As I've felt about 3 ATK since Core it really solves a whole lot of problems more easily as 1 or 2 ATK (who are more easy migated with a single shield).

Any who also have played with Ku'gath and Ragnar will also agree that 7+ HP on a body that can also attack for 2+ effectively is really powerfull in terms of a Warlord.

- Now this does cost you a card in theory, but as Snotling Attack allready shows, this doesn't have to be a problem perse. Snotling Attack (as much as Zarathur also likes it) offers you 4 bodies to split up to any planet. Making the Coteaz commitment way less predictable if you want to, or allows you to be a first planet bully (like Ragnar).

 

As also partially mentioned by Asklepios, the biggest plus he has is his initial hand. 8/8 is nothing to sneeze at, if your DE opponent starts out with Raid, fine, you'll now have 8 cards and 7 resources to work with which still a massive advantage.

- More importantly however I can forsee Ammo Depot also being a staple card for Coteaz, who shouldn't have to worry to much about getting cards on the table and removing them in the process.

 

Now here is my current review on his 'signature cards':

 

089-torquemada-coteaz.jpg

 

- Coteaz seems to be a very potent first planet bully. While I think Ragnar can currently preform that job even better there is really nothing that doesn't allow you to be just as aggressive with Coteaz. As mentioned, his initial start with 8 resources and 8 cards will make sure you dominate the initial set up. Something that still probably is the most important part of the game.

 

Because of his stats (mainly HP 8) and start I can say this Warlord is a 5/5 for sure. Provided you continue to stay on top of the Command game (which shouldn't be too difficult for him). 

 

090-coteazs-henchmen.jpg

 

- His henchemen on the other hand seem more lackluster as Straken's. However they do work really well with Coteaz and allow for some crazy options once you factor in Preemptive Barrage and/or Staging Ground.

 

For sure I do agree that Straken's are better in a vacume. Much like Cato's Chosen are better as Ragnar's Sentinels in vacume. However each fit the strategy of the other much better. Despite the aggressive way Straken can play his squad I'd still say the unit itself is mainly attrition before aggro. 

 

Regardless this unit still seems better as some 2 drops we've seen and as such it's a solid 3/5 card.

 

091-formosan-black-ship.jpg

 

- Comming back to the Black Ship I'd say this is beyond the powerlevel of any Support card and on par with Attachments such as the Plague Father's Banner and Cato's Sword. There really is little that can handle this card if it shows up during the first turn and with a 8/8 start, that isn't even to unlikely. Almost needless to say, this is a 5/5 card.

 

092-the-glovodan-eagle.jpg

 

- Unlike any other Warlord, the Eagle is just as insane as his Support card. Making Coteaz the first Warlord (as far as I remember) who has an insane Support and Attachment (altough I guess Aun'Shi and Zogwort come close aswell) both so insane because they only cost 1. Meaning it's not unlikely to start out with either but also not unlikely to always have room for playing it. Another 5/5 for sure.

 

093-the-emperor-protects.jpg

 

- Last but not least, a "better" Fall Back for a Warlord that is very much able to get his own cards destroyed but it's important to note that this card is not looking for a sacrifice to be done here. The great thing about this card is however that it allows you to save important pieces and re-use them again. Now I do agree that AM does not have their own Darring Assault Squad or Bloodletters yet but I wouldn't be suprised if we saw something like it in the last Warpack. However once we factor in what we can also do with Staging Grounds, I do believe that a re-used Evil Sunz Warbikers can put in some real hurt (together with Coteaz). A typical 4/5 if you ask me. Not game changing/winning instantly but eventually.

 

Now again, most people might look at Coteaz in a vacume and dislike him. But once you add in the fact that:

 

- You'll always have something to do with your Void Pirates and Rogue Traders (with or without Suppressive Fire)

- Your likely to have a body sacrificed to ready Cadian Mortar Squad.

- Your likely to have a Warrior/Soldier sacrificed to put in Elysian Assault Team.

- Your able to ready Black Ship with To Arms! 

 

He becomes a real 'beast' in close combat. In special when you also play Snotling Tokens to feed him bodies. AoE can awnser this, but at the same time there are not to many who have AoE 1 available at a decent cost and Suppressive Fire can still be ran in the same deck Coteaz is in.

 

Another example deck:

 

3 (4)
4 (2)

This time without Staging Ground for a more midgame approach (something I feel Coteaz can do just aswell)

 

The CMS and Valkyrie are there for the endgame so you can do something with TEP and continue the beatings this way (assuming you have 1-2 Catachan Outpost out aswell). Because of the way Coteaz starts I even think that a statement can be made for the Mordian Hell Hound. The Steel Legion Chimera protects your tokens from AoE 1 (I believe?).

 


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#14
FedericoFasullo

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Thank you both for these very useful pictures of this WL. I always try to point out the worse aspects of cards because I'm a very critical person. But I'm not blind in the battlefield, when I see a good card played well I can recognize it*. 

 

- Your likely to have a body sacrificed to ready Cadian Mortar Squad.

- Your likely to have a Warrior/Soldier sacrificed to put in Elysian Assault Team.

 

Kinda right, but I'm playing with 2 Markis and 3 Ork Kannon, CMS are fueled enough, believe me :P and as I said a CMS with str2 is a lot better than a CMS with only str1 (it's just the double, one attack with Straken is 2 attack with Torqy).

 

On the other things, the 8 cards thing I never actually thought about it. It's a big deal but usually I play very long games, I miss the benefits of a good start because I'm focused on the long-term scenario. That requires - for me at least - some test on the field :s

 

@Killax: Inquisitorial fortress is just stupidly good, I'm not seeing any reason why someone should not play it :s

 

@Asklepios: totally off topic, I've added 2 rogue traders and 1 pirate to the deck and it works so much better, thanks

 

* Ok, I'm just dumb ._.



#15
Killax

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@Killax: Inquisitorial fortress is just stupidly good, I'm not seeing any reason why someone should not play it :s

 

Kinda right, but I'm playing with 2 Markis and 3 Ork Kannon, CMS are fueled enough, believe me :P and as I said a CMS with str2 is a lot better than a CMS with only str1 (it's just the double, one attack with Straken is 2 attack with Torqy).

 

On the other things, the 8 cards thing I never actually thought about it. It's a big deal but usually I play very long games, I miss the benefits of a good start because I'm focused on the long-term scenario. That requires - for me at least - some test on the field :s

 

 

I do agree that IF is really good. My main reason behind not including it is because destroying actual unit often is even better. This is where the potential Staging Ground comes into play. And to be honest with you, I do think I favour Staging Grounds over IF in special with Straken. 

 

In short having acces to Ambush troops will suprise your opponent. There could be many examples but it also allows you to go to an empty planet with Coteaz.

Assuming your opponent will also send in something, you can "put one in with Staging Ground" after his attack, Attack with that unit and sac it to Coteaz for your next attack (if needed).

 

Markis and Kannon are a crazy but cool alternative. Altough I do think that ATK 2 CMS is indeed more powerfull changing it into a partiall AoE 1 can be just as powerfull aswell. Point being here is that it ends up doing the same for Straken and Coteaz as soon as you have a body to sacrifice for Coteaz (albeit it has to be an Army unit).

 

8 Cards on the start (and 8 resources) basicly allow you to play an additional Void Pirate during the initial turn.

 

IF for some crazy reason, Coteaz was the same with 7/7 and said: On your first turn, put a Void Pirate from your deck into play at a target planet I think more people would be convinced of his awesomeness. ;)


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#16
SuperKlaus

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090-coteazs-henchmen.jpg

 

- His henchemen on the other hand seem more lackluster as Straken's. However they do work really well with Coteaz and allow for some crazy options once you factor in Preemptive Barrage and/or Staging Ground.

 

For sure I do agree that Straken's are better in a vacume. Much like Cato's Chosen are better as Ragnar's Sentinels in vacume. However each fit the strategy of the other much better. Despite the aggressive way Straken can play his squad I'd still say the unit itself is mainly attrition before aggro. 

 

Regardless this unit still seems better as some 2 drops we've seen and as such it's a solid 3/5 card.

 

 

They're cool but not really ahead of the game on Preemptives.  Coteaz + 2x Henchmen + Preemptive = final result two Ranged 1 hits, two Ranged 3 hits.  Straken + 2x Command Squad + Preemptive = final result one Ranged 2 hit, two Ranged 3 hits.  Straken's nearly identical, the question being whether you'd rather have 1 damage twice or 2 damage once...except Straken's guys aren't dead now so they still demand enemy combat turns to make them die, and spit out Guardsmen once they do.  Winner: Straken.

 

I believe the Henchmen, though they perform adequately in Preemptives*, will show their real use somewhere else.  I'll be going for the Muster the Guard trick myself.  So, we do not disagree here, because you say the Henchmen must be used to complement Coteaz.  They simply don't Preempt very well in comparison to Straken and his boys.

 

*if there's a spare unit around Coteaz can eat to get another precious Ranged 3 shot then his firepower is ahead of Straken's, but Straken's guys still aren't dead like his so he's still not clearly ahead despite whatever effort it took to add another piece to the comparison.


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#17
LordVampire

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They're cool but not really ahead of the game on Preemptives.  Coteaz + 2x Henchmen + Preemptive = final result two Ranged 1 hits, two Ranged 3 hits.  Straken + 2x Command Squad + Preemptive = final result one Ranged 2 hit, two Ranged 3 hits.  Straken's nearly identical, the question being whether you'd rather have 1 damage twice or 2 damage once...except Straken's guys aren't dead now so they still demand enemy combat turns to make them die, and spit out Guardsmen once they do.  Winner: Straken.

 

I believe the Henchmen, though they perform adequately in Preemptives*, will show their real use somewhere else.  I'll be going for the Muster the Guard trick myself.  So, we do not disagree here, because you say the Henchmen must be used to complement Coteaz.  They simply don't Preempt very well in comparison to Straken and his boys.

 

*if there's a spare unit around Coteaz can eat to get another precious Ranged 3 shot then his firepower is ahead of Straken's, but Straken's guys still aren't dead like his so he's still not clearly ahead despite whatever effort it took to add another piece to the comparison.

 

Don't forget if Coteaz has his Eagle attached. With Pre-emptive Barrage, that would mean 2x 1 ATK of Coteaz Henchmen, 1 x 1 ATK with Coteaz and then 2 x 4 ATK with Coteaz. That's a total of 11 ranged damage, not even counting any Catachan Outposts you might have in your HQ or any To Arms! you might have in your hand to play, which really isn't uncommon at all. **** be cu-razy!

 

Straken's Cunning can only be attached to an army unit and can only be used once (unless on CMS, but that one has ranged already and doesn't work with Pre-emptive Barrage).


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#18
Killax

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Winner: Straken.

 

 

Big difference here is that the way is now open to easily bloody Straken with what is left (assuming your enemy is still in the game) in which case the damage output is the same but Straken still only has 6 HP where Coteaz has 8 and +1 card and +1 resource from the start. 

 

Which would lead to the correct statement beingm, winner: undecided.

 

To make it clear once again, I don't feel either is perse better as the other, but I do feel they fit different roles and Coteaz by himself can play a whole different type of Bully as opposed to Straken simply because of his starting advantage and HP advantage.

 

Again we can make some comparisons between other Warlords again, some have the favourable Army cards, some have the favourable Attachment, Support and Event cards. I'd say Straken fits the first and Coteaz fits the latter. The same is true for Zarathur "vs" Ku'gath for example or Nazdreg "vs" Zogwort. 



#19
Asklepios

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Any cool tricks anyone can think of for the Henchman other than sacrificing to Coteaz's ability?

 

I'm wondering if there might be some clever way to get around "exhaust your warlord" costs, though nothing is occurring to me.

 

The only thing I can think of is Muster the Guard, followed by one of these guys, then Noble Deed, to give a means to reduce all costs by 1 while not losing out on the command win. Obviously though, thats a nombo beyond compare...



#20
Killax

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Any cool tricks anyone can think of for the Henchman other than sacrificing to Coteaz's ability?

 

I'm wondering if there might be some clever way to get around "exhaust your warlord" costs, though nothing is occurring to me.

 

The only thing I can think of is Muster the Guard, followed by one of these guys, then Noble Deed, to give a means to reduce all costs by 1 while not losing out on the command win. Obviously though, thats a nombo beyond compare...

 

Well you could stack up the Markis and go that way but without Tense Negotiations I don't really think there is anything worth exhausting for. Troughout the game. The advantage of Markis is that he also works with Black ship. For what it's worth.

 

Now for sure Muster the Guard is optional, but still needs to be in your opening hand to really profit from it. Altough there is something to be said for upping the curve then. 3 Costed Valkyry, 2 Costed Markis and 1 Costed Psykers... Yeah seems like a good start.







Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: Torquemada Coteaz, Inquisitor, The Threat Beyond