I do not like the tone this conversation is heading. the conecpt of a mill deck is so antithetical to the games core concept that the thought of abusing a mechanic that avoids what makes the game fun and interesting sort of gives me chills. this game is billed by FFG as a game about investigators and mosters solving stories, murduring each other, and making weak willed people go crazy. when a player plays a mill deck, they are essencially nominating to play their own game. mill negates player interaction and cuts out all the fun for the other player. i have never, in ANY game enjoyed mill decks, either playing them or playing against them, because when i sit down to play a game, i want to play the same game as my opponent, not watch an excersize of someone manipulating a flaw in the games design and show off how smart they are...
I stopped playing Call of Cthulhu when yithian mill became promenent and only came back when everyone, under FFGs watchful direction, decided to actually start playing the game again. id really hate to leave the game i love so much just because no one wants to play the actual game anymore.
I was beaten to the punch, but I see Mill Decks kinda like the "Doom Token countdown" in Elder signs. The player isn't preventing you from finding out helpful information to stop the Ancient Ones from waking up. He's JUST WAKING IT UP! So ya gotta rush the stories (Elder Signs) fast and hard while he tries to trip you up with spells etc. The fact so many mill type cards exist in the game (for multiple factions) does indeed say mill is part of the game, and always has been. Sadly the Yithian design overlooked a major core game rule, and once it was found, boom. Problem.
When you first play vs a mill deck, you'll KNOW it by turn 2-3 at the latest. You just gotta switch gears asap. ALL THAT MATTERS is success tokens. You know he can't directly stop you, so you have to look at what factions he's using, try and guess what he's doing and outplay it. Swarm him, hand destroy him, zap key support cards, whatever it takes. It's impossible to stop all of them, and every deck WILL have an answer for it, even if not a good one. It's a matter of identifying what the deck is trying to do, and changing gears.
Every time a new game mechanic is introduced into the game, it provides a new way to play. A new way to look at cards and their interactions. With all the Agency protection/counter stuff now, people will be thinking of that. How can I outplay Red tape, when can I time my events to do what I need while I'm committing to a conspiracy I don't want to commit too? Mill deck is no different. It's an alternate mechanic, and new / different things are good. Obtuse and I (only speaking for us personally here) LIKE new different stuff. Anything that makes you think and change how you play and read cards, is GOOD for the game. While I've expressed my personal unhappiness with the effectiveness of Negotium vs many of the newer cards, someone a few days ago posting "Just Negoitum not being restricted changes how you think about deck building, because if you CAN'T answer it, you lose" and he was right (Sorry I forget who said this heh)
We'd just like to see mill be a viable option and not a gimmick or "something annoying to toss in and hope we hit a good card" which is how most people use the various non Yithian mill cards in game (not counting reanimator/spell decks of course)
Yithian mill was it's own special monster and not comparable to any mill deck. It went off before you could do anything. Cards did not exist to stop it, and the slow down options were sad. It was consistent, and it abused a game mechanic that wasn't supposed to exist. (For this purpose)
Even if I hit a god hand / perfect plays with my Mill deck, fastest I can mill someone out is turn 5. Again, this is GOD HAND, everything perfect, goes 100% my way. It is fragile. If you play guys I can't remove and I have removal, you're gonna jump way ahead. If I see dupes of denial cards I can't double play, you're gonna jump ahead. You have counters to my support cards? You're gonna jump ahead.
There are LOTS of things it is very weak too. We're all discussing it, because we'd like to find a way to take it from gimmick / fun to competitive.
Because it has so many weaknesses, but so many ways to go about trying to stabilize and mill, it's VERY fun to try and design. All I did was copy Obtuse' deck, take out the removal (initially) and put in way more Hastur. Now other than 4 key cards, our mill decks look nothing alike, and he's been enjoying my ideas and input on answers for things, even the ones we dropped or didn't try yet provided a fun new answer for problems. Hell man, I've nearly (and still may) put a ZOOG IN IT! Cmon now, that's tech lol
This weekend when I met Kamacausey, he showed me his Characterless mill. We didn't get to play, but it was VERY interesting seeing another persons take on it. Like Obtuse and I, he had several of the same cards. However, he used a different key mill card than either of us used, he ran a completely different faction than we did, and the tools he used in it made very good plays ours cannot do, and had answers ares do not. But that brought with it different weaknesses. 3 Totally different decks, all doing the same thing, with different strengths and weaknesses.
That's the fun of deck building games. The experimenting. Designing ways around the top cards, throwing the meta off, and bringing new things to the table.
Some of the biggest auto include cards I've been seeing lately are (depending on deck type of course)
Plague Stone, Khopesh, Descendant of Eibon, Temple of Ry'leh, Dreamlands Fanatic, Negotium etc
Wouldn't it be fun if you had a deck that wasn't scared of any of these? Mildly concerned at the best? Your opponent running these cards, knows they are powerful. Knows others use them as well. When you bring a deck (regardless of how it works) that negates the power of these cards, that is a good thing for the game. Plus it's fun heh.
That I believe is the purpose of this post. Trust me, NONE OF US want a Yithian Mill back, and none of our decks I've seen or talked about with others are anything like it. Plus, it's quite a challenge using crap jank cards to try and beat the best of the best lol
Next time ya guys down, ask to see mine. I actually think you'll like it