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Concerns with lack of interest

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#41
CharlieFilms

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EXACTLY! Who would ever use a Twilek Loyalist? EVER? Its horrid. And yet it has won me more games then I can count, because i learned how to use it effectively. I was forced to play with something subpar and that adds strategic depth.

 

This is exactly the example I was thinking of. That little guy does work.



#42
yankeefan1355

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I've been playing this game for quite a while and yeah, I can't disagree that Twiek Loyalist is good.  My point is that half the card pool is junk and isn't worth using that much.  That's all.  It's not a bad game it's just that when you have half a card pool that isn't really used that much, along with delays, and inconsistant card design and some very broken combos:  Dash/Freeholders and Jedi Gamor comes to mind than you'll have a lower amount of players interested in the game v other games that are better balanced and which new cards come out more consistantly and on time instead of delayed for weeks upon weeks.



#43
tierdal

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I've been playing this game for quite a while and yeah, I can't disagree that Twiek Loyalist is good.  My point is that half the card pool is junk and isn't worth using that much.  That's all.  It's not a bad game it's just that when you have half a card pool that isn't really used that much, along with delays, and inconsistant card design and some very broken combos:  Dash/Freeholders and Jedi Gamor comes to mind than you'll have a lower amount of players interested in the game v other games that are better balanced and which new cards come out more consistantly and on time instead of delayed for weeks upon weeks.

 

 

I wasnt around for Dash/Freeholders but I heard it was bad...but i cant really comment.

 

 

I must say Jedi/Gamor was not NEARLY the problem jubba/yoda is... and i still dont know why it was errata'd. If anything it should have been Smug Affil only. All it did was hurt Smugglers...which stinks.

 

What I will agree with you is YES - there are alot of worthless pods. And that is FFGs fault - and probably due to them learning the playspace themselves. If you look at new luke and some of the other pods that have come out this has been GREATLY improved.

 

They are moving more toward self contained pod synergy which is necessary as we saw during the Hoth Cycle requiring 3-4 pods for your pods to work right is limiting and causes them to become worthless faster. The entire point of the pod system is internal synergy so that you are choosing to build around pods not just throw in the best cards. But early on they created a system of "best pods" and people just threw in the best pods... that is slowly but surely changing with more pods and better designed pods.


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#44
Scottie

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Conquest has been more balanced in a short time then pretty much any of FFGs LCG efforts. Netrunner took awhile to get out of its own way and had a fairly intrinsic issue that had to be corrected (Agenda Flood via Jackson Howard).

This game had a year of just non-impactful expansions. Hoth and BotF was not where this game should have started. BotF just wasn't appropriate in place of a deluxe and Hoth just had too many back of the box sets. EoD had the same issue as the Hoth Cycle

Nearly everything since then has just been overall better. So whoever or whatever changed in thier design team or philosophy, keep it up.
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#45
XeroAnarian

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I've been playing this game for quite a while and yeah, I can't disagree that Twiek Loyalist is good.  My point is that half the card pool is junk and isn't worth using that much.  That's all.  It's not a bad game it's just that when you have half a card pool that isn't really used that much, along with delays, and inconsistant card design and some very broken combos:  Dash/Freeholders and Jedi Gamor comes to mind than you'll have a lower amount of players interested in the game v other games that are better balanced and which new cards come out more consistantly and on time instead of delayed for weeks upon weeks.

 

Have you tried using those "junk" pools? I won a Store Championship with a gimmicky goofy ass trooper deck. Like everyone has been saying, think outside the box. Try using some of those junk pods, find a way to make them work. Remember when the attitude was "Nobody will ever win a WC with Trench Run!" was the mindset?

 

The delays are done for now. We know why they happened, the issue has been resolve, we know how FFG ships Force Cycles, so there won't be any more delays for this cycle, unless their warehouse burns down. Actually, this cycle was on time, the first pack was in stores during Q1 like advertised.

 

Right now there really aren't any "broken" combos. There's a way to deal with everything. One deck can't stop all deck types, and that's how it should be.

 

Like Charlie said, we're at 9 players now, and still growing. If you want people to play over at your store, you gotta do what we did that initially brought you over here in the first place: PLAY THE GAME. There may be a tournament "scheduled" every third Saturday at DS, but it sure isn't promoted. We're still scheduling things at different stores, and in fact just did a spring tournament at a place we've never played before. In a perfect world, every store in the area would have it's own group, and we could do cool cross store competitions, but sadly that isn't a thing right now. 


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#46
tierdal

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Have you tried using those "junk" pools? I won a Store Championship with a gimmicky goofy ass trooper deck. Like everyone has been saying, think outside the box. Try using some of those junk pods, find a way to make them work. Remember when the attitude was "Nobody will ever win a WC with Trench Run!" was the mindset?

 

The delays are done for now. We know why they happened, the issue has been resolve, we know how FFG ships Force Cycles, so there won't be any more delays for this cycle, unless their warehouse burns down. Actually, this cycle was on time, the first pack was in stores during Q1 like advertised.

 

Right now there really aren't any "broken" combos. There's a way to deal with everything. One deck can't stop all deck types, and that's how it should be.

 

Like Charlie said, we're at 9 players now, and still growing. If you want people to play over at your store, you gotta do what we did that initially brought you over here in the first place: PLAY THE GAME. There may be a tournament "scheduled" every third Saturday at DS, but it sure isn't promoted. We're still scheduling things at different stores, and in fact just did a spring tournament at a place we've never played before. In a perfect world, every store in the area would have it's own group, and we could do cool cross store competitions, but sadly that isn't a thing right now. 

 

This is where I will draw the line.

 

Right now Yodas and Jubbas are broken. They make Jedi too strong. Jedi has no weakness right now and no counter.

 

The focus group of 1 that you wont a store champ with a subpar deck doesn't do alot to disprove that =/

 

The fact that almost every SC I've been too has been splits of Light Side wins I think shows this pretty clearly. Not saying DS can't win...but they are winning alot less than LS ever lost even in the heydey of sith. 

 

The difference is DS has a steady win tempo were LS can blow out a victory even on dial 11....making surprise wins against sith control possible in a way that LUKE/YODA/JUBBA/SPIDER first turn is pretty much GG.



#47
XeroAnarian

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This is where I will draw the line.

 

Right now Yodas and Jubbas are broken. They make Jedi too strong. Jedi has no weakness right now and no counter.

 

The focus group of 1 that you wont a store champ with a subpar deck doesn't do alot to disprove that =/

 

The fact that almost every SC I've been too has been splits of Light Side wins I think shows this pretty clearly. Not saying DS can't win...but they are winning alot less than LS ever lost even in the heydey of sith. 

 

The difference is DS has a steady win tempo were LS can blow out a victory even on dial 11....making surprise wins against sith control possible in a way that LUKE/YODA/JUBBA/SPIDER first turn is pretty much GG.

 

Vehicles.

 

Edit:

 

Also, I find your "subpar deck" comment uncalled for and rude. -.-


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#48
MasterJediAdam

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I agree with the gallery that the game has sort of hit an overall stride; i.e. growing in some areas and shrinking in others. I know for a fact that the idea of leveraging the current engaged actors (read groups like Team Covenant or the crew at FTF) as motivators for organized play has been suggested and heard by FFG. Not speaking for FFG, but there are likely some conciderations they have to make for the international community to ensure they are providing oppotunity for everyone to benefit from any type of program that they would institute.

I know that when the game came out I was hosting regular events in multiple cities in CO, but had a hard time gaining traction. In the end, I think that the combination of multiple factors keeps the play base small. I mean, I was doing token boxes, mats, foils, foreign cards, gift cards, Force Packs (not all at once) and the like to get things going, but had very limited success.

I hope the game grows so they keep producing sets.
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#49
Scottie

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Tierdal do you think some of your issue is coming down to currently ill-fitting play style being exacerbated by the asymmetrical game design? As others in the area have has a bit easier time getting better DS percentages.

#50
CharlieFilms

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Right now Yodas and Jubbas are broken. They make Jedi too strong. Jedi has no weakness right now and no counter.

 

 

This just really isn't true. There are many good counters and they are far from broken.



#51
BobaFett

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The last 2 store championships I've went to, my DS won more games then my LS. And at both, DS in general, was winning almost the same amount of games as LS.

LS is not nearly as far ahead of DS as some people think. And Jubbas plus Yoda is certainly not broken.

#52
Scottie

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I agree with the gallery that the game has sort of hit an overall stride; i.e. growing in some areas and shrinking in others. I know for a fact that the idea of leveraging the current engaged actors (read groups like Team Covenant or the crew at FTF) as motivators for organized play has been suggested and heard by FFG. Not speaking for FFG, but there are likely some conciderations they have to make for the international community to ensure they are providing oppotunity for everyone to benefit from any type of program that they would institute.
I know that when the game came out I was hosting regular events in multiple cities in CO, but had a hard time gaining traction. In the end, I think that the combination of multiple factors keeps the play base small. I mean, I was doing token boxes, mats, foils, foreign cards, gift cards, Force Packs (not all at once) and the like to get things going, but had very limited success.
I hope the game grows so they keep producing sets.



I'd love to see FFG do more for the international folks as the current system of distributors running the show seems to produce problems. Or that is at least what I read.

There are more then a number of games with systems that FFG can emulate. Privateer Press has a much better OP program both for casual local purpose and competitive play. And they occupy similar grounding as far being a non-cash prizing game.
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#53
chunkygorillas

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Jubba birds are fine, DS just needs to adjust. It's been said many times, if the meta-game is filled with jubba birds just play less characters.

The only thing I wish DS had more of to balance things out is event cancel. I had a yoda you seek yoda cancelled by an imperial suppression once and it really hurt my jedi deck. If they could reprint that card in a playable set I think the DS could open up a bit more.


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#54
yankeefan1355

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I don't think that Jedi has "broken" the game at all.  If anything it finally brought it to Sith level of a good balance.  Jedi and Sith both have a decent chance of out dueling the other side. 

 

As for DS tournaments, I had to work during the day.  I'm working 6-7 days a week right now but I heard that nobody showed up.  And yes, you are correct that the events need to be promoted a bit better, but if nobody takes the time to drive down from Tampa/St Pete or up from Ft. Myers than it's never going to get any traction.  There's just not a good local base in Sarasota. 

 

Netrunner and Warhammer have a  larger player base right now.

 

If a deck wins a tournament than it's not subpar at all, obviously.  I'm happy that XenoAnarian won the tournament.  He spends a lot of time playing and tweaking his decks so it was a well deserved victory and he posted a lot of great tournament reports.


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#55
tierdal

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Vehicles.

 

Edit:

 

Also, I find your "subpar deck" comment uncalled for and rude. -.-

 

 

100% apologize if you found this rude...totally not my intention..

 

You mentioned using "junk" pods in a "gimmicky" deck. I only meant is you didn't use a top tier deck to win a SC - subpar was just my word choice..and in no way reflects on you.



#56
tierdal

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Tierdal do you think some of your issue is coming down to currently ill-fitting play style being exacerbated by the asymmetrical game design? As others in the area have has a bit easier time getting better DS percentages.

 

 

This just really isn't true. There are many good counters and they are far from broken.

 

 

The last 2 store championships I've went to, my DS won more games then my LS. And at both, DS in general, was winning almost the same amount of games as LS.

LS is not nearly as far ahead of DS as some people think. And Jubbas plus Yoda is certainly not broken.

 

 

I hear people say this but I don't see any facts to back it up.

 

Jedi has more Tactics and more Pips than Sith right now... and with the influx of mains with 3hp can outlast removal in ways it could not before.

 

People say adjust...adjust to what? What do you do with a first turn Jubba/Yodda/Spider/Luke? 

 

What do you do vs a first turn spider/yoda/jubba? 

 

The single best way to deal with it is turn 1 executor - to limit their sac advantages. But thats a what ... 2% chance for holocron AND executor? And even then if you lose edge vs tactics yoda your executor becomes a joke. 

 

Jubbas make Palp a 6 cost joke card - if it wasnt for his removal and resource id have removed him awhile ago.

 

 

To Scotties question - I don't think so. I've tried every kind of deck to have good balanced games vs Jedi, and honestly if Jedi draws even SOMEWHAT good , Sith just can't win reliably. They just don't have answers to the tactcs, pips, massive damage capability of new luke. We saw this at All Things Fun - given the choice EVERY player opt'd to play Jedi as much as they could in the top 8 , when they could. It literally decided the winner in a lot of ways. It was a running gag at the end of the night of people asking "What do you want to play" to players higher in the seed.

 

There is just no counter to the massive defensive, force holding abilities of Jedi coupled with the insane objective damage output. 

 

And please if ANYONE has an actual deck/pod/strategy that I am missing people let me know. But I've tried everything I could, from balance Mara Jade to Heart of the Empire and ofcourse Zekka Cheese...and nothing feels reliable.

 

No game of Jedi/Sith right now feels that if both plays draw optimally that a balanced game will happen. 

 

Balance games tend to happen when Sith draws VERY WELL and Jedi draws poorly, or below average.

 

But again PLEASE - if im missing something let me know because Id like nothing more than to have GOOD games vs Jedi that don't feel like hitting my head against the wall.



#57
XeroAnarian

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I hear people say this but I don't see any facts to back it up.

Jedi has more Tactics and more Pips than Sith right now... and with the influx of mains with 3hp can outlast removal in ways it could not before.

People say adjust...adjust to what? What do you do with a first turn Jubba/Yodda/Spider/Luke?

What do you do vs a first turn spider/yoda/jubba?

The single best way to deal with it is turn 1 executor - to limit their sac advantages. But thats a what ... 2% chance for holocron AND executor? And even then if you lose edge vs tactics yoda your executor becomes a joke.

Jubbas make Palp a 6 cost joke card - if it wasnt for his removal and resource id have removed him awhile ago.


To Scotties question - I don't think so. I've tried every kind of deck to have good balanced games vs Jedi, and honestly if Jedi draws even SOMEWHAT good , Sith just can't win reliably. They just don't have answers to the tactcs, pips, massive damage capability of new luke. We saw this at All Things Fun - given the choice EVERY player opt'd to play Jedi as much as they could in the top 8 , when they could. It literally decided the winner in a lot of ways. It was a running gag at the end of the night of people asking "What do you want to play" to players higher in the seed.

There is just no counter to the massive defensive, force holding abilities of Jedi coupled with the insane objective damage output.

And please if ANYONE has an actual deck/pod/strategy that I am missing people let me know. But I've tried everything I could, from balance Mara Jade to Heart of the Empire and ofcourse Zekka Cheese...and nothing feels reliable.

No game of Jedi/Sith right now feels that if both plays draw optimally that a balanced game will happen.

Balance games tend to happen when Sith draws VERY WELL and Jedi draws poorly, or below average.

But again PLEASE - if im missing something let me know because Id like nothing more than to have GOOD games vs Jedi that don't feel like hitting my head against the wall.


Uh... You do know you don't HAVE to play Sith... Right?

Like I said before, no single deck can beat every other deck, and that's good.

Everyone is so afraid to try something different... It bothers me. I get so sick of seeing the same Sith decks at events. I understand why people play them, they're good, and you can just sit there holding the Force and defending, but I just can't do it. I like trying different setups.

There's plenty of other options for DS. Try them.
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#58
Fnnrqwin

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I do feel that if there is any genuine problem with the game right now (outside of having fewer products available than should be at this point in its life) it is the noticeable massive power creep. I really wish FFG had just errata'd core Vader and Palpy in order to fix Sith's balance issues instead of constantly trying to "correct" their apparent bad design philosophy. The core set and Hoth cycle wouldn't feel nearly as useless if FFG didn't try to shove 3 health and a few black tactics onto every card since then.


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#59
BobaFett

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I actually think 3 health mains was needed. Your unique high cost mains shouldn't be dying to 1 gun chuds and a heat of battle or 1 gun chuds and a force choke. Besides, we're still getting 2 health mains, just not that many any more.

Even though sets have decidedly gone up in power compared to the hoth cycle, I think in the long run, it'll be better for the game as long as each cycle doesn't become an arms race with the previous cycle, and by what we've seen in rogue squadron cycle so far I think we're not seeing that.
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#60
Scottie

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Actually we did not see that at ATF, Xavier and Tom both did opt to volunteerily play DS.

Additionally, I think you are misunderstanding my point. I am not suggesting you haven't tried other decks. What I am seeing is that in a symmetrical card game, like 40k, if you found a faction didn't fit how you approached the game you'd just pick a different one. But in this game you must play a DS deck. So if the more viable DS options don't fit your playstyle, then you have trouble because you can't just not opt to play DS.