Jump to content

Welcome to Card Game DB
Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to create topics, post replies to existing threads, give reputation to your fellow members, get your own private messenger, post status updates, manage your profile and so much more. If you already have an account, login here - otherwise create an account for free today!
Photo

Hastur Box: The Mark of Madness!

- - - - -

  • Please log in to reply
49 replies to this topic

#41
Danigral

Danigral

    Advanced Member

  • Small Council
  • 1358 posts

Lest we forget, there are also a multitude of cards that shut down the terror struggle. At least as many as those which enable the terror struggle.


  • aronpolemic likes this

#42
Mulletcheese

Mulletcheese

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1048 posts
Sleepless nights adds a terror struggle to each story, and because it's a madness event it can now be brought back to your hand for multiple uses. Drive a character insane to pay for the recursion and you have 3 terror struggles at all stories.
  • Jhaelen likes this

#43
kamacausey

kamacausey

    Advanced Member

  • Contributor
  • PipPipPip
  • 473 posts
Obtuse, I think you are thinking of the 1 drop hastur guy from terror in Venice that says while he's at a story he counts his terror at all stories.

#44
Obtuse

Obtuse

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 601 posts
I think I was actually thinking of the King in Yellow Folio I just for whatever reason thought it was a character.

#45
Corwin81

Corwin81

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 82 posts

I'm much happier they made an event (Acute Melancholia) that gave us what we've all been wanting for Hastur.  

 

Well the card has two major shortcomings though, you cannot deal with an Ancient One and the target has to be committed to a story.

Plus, you need to have at least one character at that story able to go insane first, before you can even trigger it.

Hopefully there are other upcoming cards to help defend against ability-oriented characters with (T)/Wp that can hurt you without even committing.

 

Currently, there's no way of driving insane any single character unconditionally, and I persist to believe at least one Hastur card should have this ability.

Hastur AO 1 had targeted insanity but didn't affect "protected" chars. Hastur AO 2 removed the protections but didn't drive insane.

And both are too expensive for an effect you want early in the game to survive against overpowered in-your-face Cthulhu or Syndicate chars.

Artist/lunatics are a nice theme but you end up wiping your own board insane and drawing a lot of very weak chars to produce barely decent impact.

Meanwhile, the above mentioned factions have much less work to do to create a threat or deal with one... (Khopesh, Immurement etc.).

What Hastur box is supposed to bring is balance, and given the significant power creep from the other boxes, half-measures won't be enough.


  • Nightmare588 likes this

#46
dboeren

dboeren

    Advanced Member

  • Contributor
  • PipPipPip
  • 2834 posts

We haven't seen the whole box yet.


  • Obtuse likes this

#47
Yipe

Yipe

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 748 posts

I'm torn on Hastur having a card that can drive a character with either terror or willpower insane unconditionally (outside of simply paying for the card's cost).

 

On the one hand, Hastur is a favorite faction of mine so I'd love to see them get a power card.  On the other, that does diminish the utility of factions/characters that rely heavily on terror/willpower.

 

Presently, there are few cards than can drive protected characters insane (Hanyatl's 7:13 is a good example) but they are all conditional and can't target Ancient Ones.  Personally, I think that's the right move in terms of game balance.

 

There should be an in-game requirement beyond the card's cost to do this.  It fits with the Hastur theme of slowly driving people insane like a virus, and it fosters the use of combinations (which I like to think of as Hastur's entropic influence spreading outward from this character to the next).

 

I also can't see this ability functioning on AOs.  Those characters are hard enough to play as is and their subtype should give them some reliable protection.  I guess what I'm saying is that I don't want to see Hastur become a hammer.  That just seems wrong to me.  One of the reasons I like this faction so much is that it does rely on mixing multiple tricks in order to get what you want.

 

Mono Hastur was previously perceived as weak because winning the terror struggle didn't net you much if anything.  Your opponent could lose terror and shrug.  However, FFG was smart and took a slightly different approach to fixing this problem.  Instead of easily stripping away protecting from characters so Hastur wins terror and drives someone insane, they created cards that altered what happens when you win the terror struggle (put up success tokens, etc). Players simply can't lose terror and ignore it anymore as Hastur has ways to increase your board advantage without having to drive a character insane.  That's pretty cool.

 

However, say Hastur did receive such a card - how much would that event or character cost?  Would it be worth it?

 

I'm a fan of cheap events, so Melancholia is a perfect fit for me.  Meeting the criteria shouldn't only be easy to do, if I'm smart enough (debatable) I should be able to drive one of my own characters insane in a way that benefits me in order to trigger Melancholia.  At only 1 cost, and with new Artists (or perhaps rituals) that want to be driven insane, it looks like a solid card to me.


  • Jhaelen, Skelton, Unnamable and 2 others like this

#48
Corwin81

Corwin81

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 82 posts

Thanks Yipe for the well-argued reply, it's a great pleasure to trade point of views in this community :)

 

Agree with you, such an ability doesn't necessarily have to hit Ancient Ones - could be a bit OP indeed.

And for the cost, yes a minimum of three or maybe X (cost of the target) would be appropriate.

 

Ultimately, my concern revolves around this: if you have on one side, Hastur with relatively weak characters and good events/supports, and on the other side, a faction with solid characters and equally good events/supports (basically fits all others, even Yog and Miskatonic have overall more viable chars than Hastur), the result will be pretty much always the same. Especially if the Hastur removal or threat-tempo management is too situational.

Getting success tokens from terror struggles will be great, but this will do little to help your board control.

Opponent's chars still won't go insane in many instances, your chars will keep dying in combat, and you'll still have half of your own guys insane and unable to participate in stories.

Plus, the cards allowing you to leverage terror struggle in this way are too few and too expensive to build a rush deck around.

 

Agreed we haven't seen the rest of the box, maybe a 1-cost event that allows you to look at opponent's hand and discard a character could be a nice alternative to removal.

Or a 1-cost cancel limited to characters being played. Madness sub-type if possible, so we have recursion with the Patron.

 

I'm just hoping for my favorite faction becoming tier 1, or it least not systematically torn to pieces by anything else in mono setting :)



#49
Corwin81

Corwin81

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 82 posts

Following-up on the Madness recursion - I just looked up how many cards it would hit in the pool and realized it's a lot more than I thought, thirty !

Interestingly, not only great events (all the phobias esp. Apeiro, The Greatest Fear, Blind Submission, Devolution) but also attachments, notably Infernal Obsession.

Assuming Patron doesn't get restricted itself, that could give a good reason to prefer the Obsession over Stygian eye: if the stolen char dies or is driven insane, you can retrieve the attachment and take another character. Patron increasingly looks like a future staple to me.


  • Danigral and Jhaelen like this

#50
Yuggoth

Yuggoth

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 48 posts

This box looks great, very excited about this new Hastur, great design. I see I was not the only one that wanted to abuse the king in yellow folio hehe.


  • Corwin81 likes this