25 replies to this topic

[slothgodfather]

Since these character-turn-agenda cards, such as Aeron Damphair (VM), don't say "save," what happens when a card like Wildfire Assault (Core) kills him? Since it is not worded as a save, does he always become an agenda?

Also, as an agenda, can we still play other duplicates of him if we wanted? I know his response can obviously only happen once, since it is "as only agenda" but since he wasn't killed, seems we should be able to put another into play.

[Staton]

It is a replacement effect. So instead of these characters going to the dead pile, they turn into agendas. Saving doesn't come into play at all. If they die for any reason they will become agendas.

If you play Aeron Damphair and he becomes an agenda, if you draw another copy of him you can put him into play as a character like normal. However if he dies a second time he merely goes to the dead pile because he couldn't attach to your house card as the only agenda.

Also note that once these characters are agendas they can't be effected by any cards whatsoever. Unless they print something that specifically references the agenda, which is pretty unlikely.

[slothgodfather]

Ok that's what I thought, just wanted to make sure. The only card I know of that can target agendas is Mance Rayder (RotO) that can blank a The North agenda.

[Staton]

Right. So I don't expect we'll get anything that targets agendas, but I could be wrong.

[emptyrepublic]

Also, I presume "As Only Agenda" means that the turning into agenda effect fizzles if there is a normal agenda already in play.

[Nomos]

emptyrepublic, on 10 May 2012 - 10:33 PM, said:

Also, I presume "As Only Agenda" means that the turning into agenda effect fizzles if there is a normal agenda already in play.

Correct. As far as we know these cannot overwrite preexisting Agendas

[slothgodfather]

What if I use the new Aeron Damphair from the VM set, get him killed and turn him into an agenda. Since he is no longer in play, is it is possible to run other versions of him then?

[Nomos]

Yes

[CKHarri]

The way I read these character agenda cards is as follows:

when they are killed they attach to your house card and become your only agenda regardless of if you are playing with an agenda or not. Also as they are attached to your house card and are therefore in play so you cannot play another copy/version of them, and the question should be are they now attachments that can be removed with attachment hate.

I think an official ruling from FFG is required.

[Nomos]

CKHarri, on 29 May 2012 - 11:00 PM, said:

The way I read these character agenda cards is as follows:

when they are killed they attach to your house card and become your only agenda regardless of if you are playing with an agenda or not. Also as they are attached to your house card and are therefore in play so you cannot play another copy/version of them, and the question should be are they now attachments that can be removed with attachment hate.

I think an official ruling from FFG is required.

You're reading way too much into intent and nuance. See FAQ 3.2 in particular but I will quote the relavant parts here.


Taken from page 11:
(4.11) Agenda Cards
Agenda cards are not considered to be in play.
Further, the effects of an Agenda card cannot
be canceled.

Taken from Page 23:
If one of my characters turns into an Agenda,
is that character considered to have left play?
Can I then play another copy of that character
as a character card?

Agendas are not considered "in play." When
you play a character and it changes into an
Agenda card, it is considered to have left play.
You can then play additional copies or other
versions of that character as a character card.



Thus Despite the card text saying attach to your house card, these are not attachments, these are agendas and as such are covered under the Agenda rules. As agendas they are out of play and thus addtional Kevans, Kindly Mans etc can be played. Additionally, since agendas are out of play they cannot be cancelled, blanked or otherwise changed unless explicitly written into the rules, the word only should be interpreted as a play restriction rather than a play modification. I say this because none of the chargendas have the same explicit wording as Mance Rayder (RotO) who is the only card in the LCG format that effects agendas at all.


The following is only my intuitive leap: I think that prime reason for attaching at all is to separate them from the agendas that are placed next to the house card on set up. For an experienced player this might seem like a needless layer of complexity but a good bright line distinction between standard agendas and chargendas is needed fro newer players.

[Bomb]

In addition to what Nomos says, I think "attaching them to your house card" also provides a distinction between the character version and the agenda version of that character card so that they both can be on the table at the same time with less confusion. If the agenda version is free standing, then it's easy to overlook the fact that it is the agenda and not the character version if players are not paying attention.

[Reager]

a more tactical question, considering duplicates are useless on these type of characters since you want them to die, but you also want to get them in your hand as soon as possible how many copies would you run of them in a deck? 2 or 3?

[Nomos]

Really depends on the character. Shireen (bara) 1 w/summoning season but griff (targ) at least 2 maybe 3.

[slothgodfather]

Since most of them are solid enough characters on their own, and after their first death become agendas I could see running 3 of them. Except Griff, dupes of him would be a little pointless since he would nearly always come back into play.

[Staton]

Yeah after the character dies and becomes an agenda, you are free to play the character again. So I would most likely run 3x of any that I'm using.

[slothgodfather]

I wish these could have a "leave play" replacement effect instead of "killed." It is far less reliable the way it is.

[Staton]

Which ones are you having problems being killed? Targ and Stark are pretty dang easy. The other houses have a bit of a problem getting them killed but if your opponent is refusing to do military challenges against you, then you're kinda doing something right.

[slothgodfather]

Oh I haven't used em yet, just in theory that seems potentially problematic. I used Game of Cyvasse to bounce my opponent's the Kindly Man a few times just so I wouldn't have to worry about him.

[Staton]

You probably shouldn't play the Kindly Man without a House Umber Berserkers (BoRF).

[slothgodfather]

Yea, that's a good point. I'll mention that to the guy that was playing him at our store. I'd personally like to use the GJ one, as that's the house I like to play for Melee. But currently I'm running a Maester deck so I couldn't switch the agenda with this build.