Jump to content

Welcome to Card Game DB
Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to create topics, post replies to existing threads, give reputation to your fellow members, get your own private messenger, post status updates, manage your profile and so much more. If you already have an account, login here - otherwise create an account for free today!
Photo

Catelyn Stark vs Events

- - - - -

Best Answer istaril , 23 July 2015 - 02:14 PM

Normally, card text only interacts with entities in play (unless it specifically says otherwise) - see abilities, p2. Events, despite being played, are never actually in play - they engage the game from an out-of-play area (again, abilities p2).

 

However, Catelyn isn't actually affecting the events themselves, her text reads "Opponents cannot trigger...". Trigger is short for "initiate triggered abilities", and an event qualifies. Since your opponent would be initiating the triggered ability on the event, and Catelyn is explicitly preventing them from doing so, Catelyn does in fact shut down events. 

 

The other consequence of the way she is worded is that when your opponent is not doing the actually initiating of the triggered effect (say, on the Forced Reaction of his The Wall, or Jorah Mormont) and the game is, the effect still goes off normally and is not prevented by Catelyn. 

Go to the full post »


  • Please log in to reply
5 replies to this topic

#1
stevehouston

stevehouston

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 90 posts
Does Catelyn Stark being on the board mean your opponent can't trigger events from hand as well, or is it only character/location/attachment card abilities that exist on the board at the time of her participating?

#2
istaril

istaril

    Advanced Member

  • Contributor
  • PipPipPip
  • 1732 posts
✓  Best Answer

Normally, card text only interacts with entities in play (unless it specifically says otherwise) - see abilities, p2. Events, despite being played, are never actually in play - they engage the game from an out-of-play area (again, abilities p2).

 

However, Catelyn isn't actually affecting the events themselves, her text reads "Opponents cannot trigger...". Trigger is short for "initiate triggered abilities", and an event qualifies. Since your opponent would be initiating the triggered ability on the event, and Catelyn is explicitly preventing them from doing so, Catelyn does in fact shut down events. 

 

The other consequence of the way she is worded is that when your opponent is not doing the actually initiating of the triggered effect (say, on the Forced Reaction of his The Wall, or Jorah Mormont) and the game is, the effect still goes off normally and is not prevented by Catelyn. 


  • stevehouston likes this

#3
Bomb

Bomb

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2588 posts

The other consequence of the way she is worded is that when your opponent is not doing the actually initiating of the triggered effect (say, on the Forced Reaction of his The Wall, or Jorah Mormont) and the game is, the effect still goes off normally and is not prevented by Catelyn. 

 

This might be something worth elaborating on because I'm sure it will be assumed that she will prevent them.  Is it discussed in a Q&T article? 

 

Another thing worth pointing out is that there may be effects that identify "an effect triggered by an opponent", and by the same reasoning, a forced triggered effect would not qualify for that triggering condition.

 

I could be completely off base here, but I don't see anything in the Rules Reference Guide that clarifies this, so I figured it's easier just to bring it up now.  :P


  • stevehouston likes this

#4
ktom

ktom

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1462 posts

It may not be stated explicitly as "forced effects are considered to be initiated by the game, not by the person who controls the card," but it is strongly suggested by the "Forced" entry on RRG, p. 8:

 

"While most triggered abilities are optional, some interrupt and reaction abilities are preceded by the word 'Forced.' Such abilities must be resolved immediately whenever the triggering condition specified in the ability text occurs."

 

> By saying "must be resolved" instead of "players must trigger..." or "these abilities are not optional...", the rules are telling us that the players are not involved in their initiation the way they would normally be.

 

"If two or more forced abilities would initiate at the same moment, the first player determines the order in which the abilities initiate, regardless of who controls the cards bearing those abilities."

 

> First, the part about "would initiate" tells us that the players are not initiating these effects themselves. If they were, there would never be two trying to initiate at the same time (because the normal player order for interrupts/reactions would apply and prevent it from happening). Similarly, the part about the first player determining the order, regardless of who controls the card, without any explanation of why this should differ from the usual "first player acts first" rule only makes sense if the players are not the ones actually acting in this circumstance.


  • Bomb and uPoHu4Hu9 like this

#5
istaril

istaril

    Advanced Member

  • Contributor
  • PipPipPip
  • 1732 posts

This might be something worth elaborating on because I'm sure it will be assumed that she will prevent them.  Is it discussed in a Q&T article? 

 

Another thing worth pointing out is that there may be effects that identify "an effect triggered by an opponent", and by the same reasoning, a forced triggered effect would not qualify for that triggering condition.

 

I could be completely off base here, but I don't see anything in the Rules Reference Guide that clarifies this, so I figured it's easier just to bring it up now.  :P

 

There's this thread here, too. 



#6
Bomb

Bomb

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2588 posts

There's this thread here, too. 

 

Thanks!

 

I think that this is something that we will see questions on for a little while, so it's good to get it out in the open as early as you are!