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Putting opponent's unique cards into play

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Best Answer istaril , 10 August 2015 - 04:23 PM

Question 1 is answered by "Dead Pile" p5 and "Unique Cards" p22, so, as you said, you definitely can not.
 

xxA player cannot marshal, play, put into play, or take control of a copy of any unique () card that is in his or her dead pile.

 

 

 A player cannot bring into play or take control of a unique card if a copy of that card is in his or her dead pile.

 

Question 2 is answered by "Unique Cards" p.22, so, as you said, you cannot take control of a unique you already have in play.

 

xxA player cannot take control of a unique card if he or she already controls or owns an in-play copy of that card.

 

Question 3 is answered, as you said, by the lack of any such restrictions. A copy of a unique character in your opponent's dead pile does not restrict YOUR actions on that card at all - only their own. This might be an answer you feel goes against the "spirit of the rules" as you say, but for just as many players the ability for multiple players to have the same unique character out is just as much an issue - this is a case where rules may trump your intuition, but at least the rules are logically and internally consistent.

 

The same for question 4 - there is no restriction on taking control of a character your opponent has in play. This is basically the same thing as the above - an opponent's (owned and controlled) unique card un play doesn't restriction your actions at all, just their own (again, leading to the same scenarios, and the same objections about us both having Tyrion in play!)

 

And the answer to your bonus question is "yes, they can dupe it". Again, a unique your opponent owns and controls in play does not restrict your actions at all (the exception being if you own it, but they control it). Duplicates *are* picky though, as you can only duplicate a card you both own and control (you cannot duplicate a card you own, but your opponent controls. You cannot duplicate a card you control, but your opponent owns)

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9 replies to this topic

#1
Khudzlin

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Currently, there are 2 cards that can do this: Yoren and Euron

 

 

Reaction: After you marshal Yoren, choose a character with printed cost 3 or lower in an opponent’s discard pile, and put it into play under your control.

 

Reaction: After Euron Crow’s Eye discards a card using pillage, put a location from the losing opponent’s discard pile into play under your control.

 

My question is about how this interacts with the rules about unique cards.

1) Does a copy of that card in your dead pile prevent you from putting that card into play? Obviously yes.

2) Does a copy of that card you own or control in play? I'd say yes, because you're taking control of the card (Ownership and Control, p14, says players control cards in their out-play areas) and you're not allowed to do that if you own or control a copy of the card in play.

3) Does a copy of that card in its owner's dead pile? I'd say no, because that case is not covered by the rules about unique cards.

4) Does a copy of that card in play owned or controlled by the player you're taking it from? I'd say no as well, for the same reason.

 

I don't like the answers to 3 and 4, because they seem to go against the spirit of the rule.

 

And as a bonus question, assuming my answer to 4 is correct, would the opponent in question be allowed to dupe their card afterward (assuming both the copy under their control and the one under mine are still both in play)?



#2
istaril

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✓  Best Answer

Question 1 is answered by "Dead Pile" p5 and "Unique Cards" p22, so, as you said, you definitely can not.
 

xxA player cannot marshal, play, put into play, or take control of a copy of any unique () card that is in his or her dead pile.

 

 

 A player cannot bring into play or take control of a unique card if a copy of that card is in his or her dead pile.

 

Question 2 is answered by "Unique Cards" p.22, so, as you said, you cannot take control of a unique you already have in play.

 

xxA player cannot take control of a unique card if he or she already controls or owns an in-play copy of that card.

 

Question 3 is answered, as you said, by the lack of any such restrictions. A copy of a unique character in your opponent's dead pile does not restrict YOUR actions on that card at all - only their own. This might be an answer you feel goes against the "spirit of the rules" as you say, but for just as many players the ability for multiple players to have the same unique character out is just as much an issue - this is a case where rules may trump your intuition, but at least the rules are logically and internally consistent.

 

The same for question 4 - there is no restriction on taking control of a character your opponent has in play. This is basically the same thing as the above - an opponent's (owned and controlled) unique card un play doesn't restriction your actions at all, just their own (again, leading to the same scenarios, and the same objections about us both having Tyrion in play!)

 

And the answer to your bonus question is "yes, they can dupe it". Again, a unique your opponent owns and controls in play does not restrict your actions at all (the exception being if you own it, but they control it). Duplicates *are* picky though, as you can only duplicate a card you both own and control (you cannot duplicate a card you own, but your opponent controls. You cannot duplicate a card you control, but your opponent owns)



#3
Apophenia

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Does that mean that if an opponent takes control of your unique character it is impossible to take control of it back from them since doing so would trigger the "A player cannot take control of a unique card if he or she already controls or owns an in-play copy of that card." line about unique characters?

 

EDIT: Or does the fact that is says "copy" mean this doesn't apply in this case?



#4
istaril

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There's something fishy in the wording there, yeah, Apophenia. You could read that to say that you can never regain control of a unique card you own, but I suspect that's not the intended reading (it's more "another in-play copy of that card). That would put it in line with the ruling about uniques and the "dead pile".

 

xxA single instance of a unique card in a player’s dead

pile does not prevent an effect that would cause the

card to enter play directly from the dead pile. This is

because such an effect removes the only instance of

the card from the dead pile.

 

 

However, as you pointed out, there's definitely an oddity in the ruling there, so I'm going to send that one in to FFG myself - thanks for bringing it up!



#5
ktom

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but I suspect that's not the intended reading (it's more "another in-play copy of that card). 

 

And luckily, we have the following on p. 5 of the RRG:

 

"Copy (of a card):

A copy of a card is defined by title: any other card that shares the same title is considered a copy, regardless of cardtype, text, artwork, or any other characteristic of the card(s)."

 
The key phrase being "...any other card that shares the same title...". This confirms that the word "copy" is not self-referential, and that a card is not considered to be a "copy" of itself.

 

EDIT: Or does the fact that is says "copy" mean this doesn't apply in this case?

 

Yep. That's it. According to the rule quoted above, the word "copy" in the various rules for unique cards should always be taken as referring to a different piece of cardboard. You can (re-)take control of the unique without breaking the rules for unique.


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#6
andrewaa

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If I control a unique character, and for some reason my opponent take control of another copy of it, what would happen if I gain control of it back? Or I just cannot get it back?



#7
ktom

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If you control copy #1 and your opponent controls copy #2, you cannot take control of copy #2 (assuming they are copies of the same unique card by title) from your opponent.



#8
andrewaa

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If you control copy #1 and your opponent controls copy #2, you cannot take control of copy #2 (assuming they are copies of the same unique card by title) from your opponent.

Sorry wrong post.



#9
andrewaa

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One more question: If I control a unique card from my opponent, can I take control of another copy of that card and dupe it or I just cannot do it again?



#10
ktom

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You have to both own and control the card you want to dupe -- and you have to own and control the card you want to use as a dupe.