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Valar Morghulis(or the lack thereof)

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#1
widowmaker93

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So, many of you may know that I really hated the existence of Valar in 1.0. I thought it was a stupid, broken, necessary evil that was bad for the game. So having said that I have just a couple simple questions...

 

How does everyone seem to be taking the lack of Valar in the Second Edition environment? Who thinks it should come back in some way? Who wants it to stay gone forever(hint: this is the correct answer ;) )?

 

Thoughts?


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#2
kizerman86

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I hate the stupid, broken, necessary evil state of the game without Valar.

 

I get why we don't have it (yet?) but I'm already sick of the race to get your big guys out, then the cat and mouse of Confiscation vs. Milk that follows.

 

It makes the game feel too shallow, for now.  Once we get Valar (we need more unique characters and more cards in general first) people will stop running 3x of the big guys and games won't feel so relatively 1-dimensional.

 

DISCLAIMER:  I still love the game, I just long for the classic 1st Edition "feel".  


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#3
IdeYoshiya

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im%20lovin%20it.jpg_zpsnwvnhwlu.gif


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#4
IdeYoshiya

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EDIT: McDouble-post

#5
mnBroncos

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I'm surprised how much I'm glad it isn't around. It's nice playing characters with out knowing going to die right away from a plot. If it comes back we need more ways to protect our six and seven cost characters or won't play them. Also, need a lot more card draw. Right now top decking on turn four if that is the case when have valar it's going to be a boring game that is decided on top of players deck.
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#6
widowmaker93

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I hate the stupid, broken, necessary evil state of the game without Valar.

 

I get why we don't have it (yet?) but I'm already sick of the race to get your big guys out, then the cat and mouse of Confiscation vs. Milk that follows.

 

It makes the game feel too shallow, for now.  Once we get Valar (we need more unique characters and more cards in general first) people will stop running 3x of the big guys and games won't feel so relatively 1-dimensional.

 

DISCLAIMER:  I still love the game, I just long for the classic 1st Edition "feel".  

 

Well, in the game's defense there is only the Core Set. It's going to feel shallow no matter how many games you play. Once you get more unique characters people will stop running 3x of the big guys by default because there just won't be the deck space to accomodate everything. So that should solve that issue right there. You're right, it no longer has a 1st edition "I play dudes, get board control, you Valar and kill all my guys, we both play dudes, I Valar kill your dudes, then whoever has more cards in hand wins" and honestly thank GOD for that.


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#7
widowmaker93

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I'm surprised how much I'm glad it isn't around. It's nice playing characters with out knowing going to die right away from a plot. If it comes back we need more ways to protect our six and seven cost characters or won't play them. Also, need a lot more card draw. Right now top decking on turn four if that is the case when have valar it's going to be a boring game that is decided on top of players deck.

 

If it comes back I think it needs to be the same. 2/0/0 stats and a reserve of 4 would be fitting. Or, it could even come back as an event that cost 4-5 gold instead of a plot. That would be interesting.



#8
mnBroncos

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If it comes back I think it needs to be the same. 2/0/0 stats and a reserve of 4 would be fitting. Or, it could even come back as an event that cost 4-5 gold instead of a plot. That would be interesting.


Umm weteroes bleeds?

#9
widowmaker93

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Umm weteroes bleeds?

 

Yeah basically the 2.0 Westeros Bleeds but kill all characters instead of discard. Hell give it cannot be cancelled for all I care just don't make it such as easy button.


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#10
Reclusive

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I thought i wouldn't like it but i don't mind anymore.

Varys is a better option with strong counters that someone being ahead should be able to utilize.

 

We could argue though that by having the reserve mechanic a toned down version of Valar would be ok. But that's another story.



#11
ScionMattly

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I can't wait for someone to cancel Valar as a 4 gold event.



#12
jstrong77

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Is like to see a more elegant design for a"valar effect.". Maybe a plot that had some condition in order to trigger it, or an event that can only be run 1x per deck.

I'm enjoying 2.0 without valar and wouldn't want to see 1.0's "easy button" approach replicated.
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#13
mnBroncos

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My only complaint about not having valar is makes it impossible for a real control deck right now. I hope we get more ways to play control focused because think every card game needs control to be viable option for a good card game.

And no kneel (especially one or two cards max turn) is not control

#14
widowmaker93

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My only complaint about not having valar is makes it impossible for a real control deck right now. I hope we get more ways to play control focused because think every card game needs control to be viable option for a good card game.

And no kneel (especially one or two cards max turn) is not control

 

Well obviously more control effects will come. I mean do you really think Dracarys and Plaza are the only burn effects that Targ will be getting? Or that Stark isn't going to get some more kill? It'll come guys we just have to be patient. :)



#15
mnBroncos

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Oh I know just wish was a way to play control deck with just core. But probably for the best of fresh game.

#16
widowmaker93

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Oh I know just wish was a way to play control deck with just core. But probably for the best of fresh game.

 

Well Baratheon with the full Melisandre suite and Lightbringer on Robert Baratheon is the only way to really play any sort of control right now.

 

Speaking of that...who else is super excited that Baratheon has all the kneel?!


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#17
RobbyStark

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I hate the stupid, broken, necessary evil state of the game without Valar.

 

I get why we don't have it (yet?) but I'm already sick of the race to get your big guys out, then the cat and mouse of Confiscation vs. Milk that follows.

 

about that "mouse and cat race"

 

with valar it would still be a race, but a most boring one. it would just be whoever drew the dupes and bodyguards


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#18
widowmaker93

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with valar it would still be a race, but a most boring one. it would just be whoever drew the dupes and bodyguards

 

I love that dupes(and attachements) have real value now! When my opponent dupes a unique character now it just makes me want to cry(unless I'm playing Targ then I don't care). Love that feeling.



#19
kizerman86

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But we have dupes and bodyguard in 1st edition, too.  There are just better options than 2 and 3 copies of each unique, better 2 claim plots to punish the hand (below reserve), etc....

 

I'm not saying we need Valar *now*, I'm saying I want Valar *and the cardpool to support it* now.

 

I know, I'm being unreasonable, I just can't wait for this game to hit its stride!!


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#20
widowmaker93

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I still don't think Valar is needed and I would love for the designers to just push more targeted kill and discard effects than to give us an easy button board wipe. I hope they at least let the card pool grow and then make a determination on whether the game needs it later on down the line. Even bringing back old school control plots like Winter Storm or First Snow of Winter(the discard version not that LCG crap) would be preferable to Valar.


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