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Treachery - What can it cancel?

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Best Answer Grimwalker , 17 August 2015 - 02:37 PM

I think this is a language barrier issue. The event technically says "Interrupt: When the effects of a triggered ability would initiate, cancel those effects." but with a built in limitation on which Triggered Abilities it can hit: Character, Location, or Attachment.

 

"Triggered Ability" is defined in the Rules Reference Guide: 

 

Triggered Abilities
A triggered ability is any ability with a boldface
precursor followed by a colon and the rest of the
ability. This incudes actions, phase specific actions,
interrupts, reactions, forced interrupts or reactions,
and when revealed abilities.
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22 replies to this topic

#1
klaus

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Interrupt: When the effects of a triggered character, location, or attachment ability would initiate, cancel those effects.

 

Maybe my english is rusty, so i want to be sure i understand.

 

Treachery reads, the effects of a triggered character. I'm thinking the likes of Margaery Tyrell, who has an Action she can Trigger (Challenges Action: Kneel Margaery Tyrell to choose a character. Until the end of the phase, that character gets +3 STR.).

 

However could this card also cancel a Reaction (who i guess is also a triggered by some state) like Arya stark (Reaction: After Arya Stark enters play, place the top card of your deck on her facedown as a duplicate.) so she would marshall without the dupe ?  Or even an interrupt like Davos? (Interrupt: When Ser Davos Seaworth is killed, return him to your hand instead of placing him in your dead pile.)

 

Thanks for the help !



#2
Staton

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Yes, a triggered ability is anything with a bolded word in front of it. "Action:" "Challenges action" "Reaction" etc.


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#3
Grimwalker

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✓  Best Answer

I think this is a language barrier issue. The event technically says "Interrupt: When the effects of a triggered ability would initiate, cancel those effects." but with a built in limitation on which Triggered Abilities it can hit: Character, Location, or Attachment.

 

"Triggered Ability" is defined in the Rules Reference Guide: 

 

Triggered Abilities
A triggered ability is any ability with a boldface
precursor followed by a colon and the rest of the
ability. This incudes actions, phase specific actions,
interrupts, reactions, forced interrupts or reactions,
and when revealed abilities.


#4
klaus

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I missed that definition of triggered abilities on rulebook. Thank you for the response guys !


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#5
FallenOn3

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so with treachery u can cancel ser davos ability and he dies? i guess it also works on ser jorahs forced interrupt to gain a traitor token after he wins a challenge?



#6
Khudzlin

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Yes to both (though even if Davos' interrupt goes through, he's still killed, he just goes to hand instead of the dead pile).

 

 

Triggered Abilities
A triggered ability is any ability with a boldface precursor followed by a colon and the rest of the ability. This incudes actions, phase specific actions, interrupts, reactions, forced interrupts or reactions, and when revealed abilities.



#7
kryckan

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I just want to make sure I get this right, in the challange phase; my opponent triggers Arianne´s action but I play Treachery to stop it.

 

No character is put into play and Arianne stays on the table, correct?

 

Can my opponent initiate her action again later in another action window or is it stopped by the "Limit once per phase"?

 

 

Arianne Martell: Action: Put a character with printed cost 5 or lower into play from your hand. Then, return Arianne Martell to your hand (cannot be saved). (Limit once per phase.) Treachery: Play only if you control a unique character. Interrupt: When the effects of a triggered character, location, or attachment ability initiate, cancel those effects

 

Thanks in advance from a very new player to thrones



#8
istaril

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You have it right. If it is cancelled, the effect stops there (costs remain payed). If Arianne said "Return her to your hand TO..." she would bounce out regardless of whether you cancelled her, but as the returning to hand is a consequence of the first effect, treachery prevents everything.

 

Which would make it easy to re-initiate her, but, as you say, the Limit 1 / phase prevents you from initiating the ability more than once per phase. Treachery locks her to to the board (for that phase).



#9
BaraBob

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Could Trechery then be used on the Gold Cloaks at the end of phase to stop them being discarded if they had been put into play through Ambush?

 

"Forced Interrupt: When a phase ends in which Gold Cloaks entered play using ambush, discard it from play (cannot be saved)."

 

Treachery is not saving the character, but rather cancelling the forced interrupt.



#10
istaril

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Yes. It's not a stellar use of Treachery, as you wind up paying 3 gold and 2 cards to get a middling bicon, but there are situations in which it will be the right play.


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#11
szczudel

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If treachery cannot stop Kneeling the wall (Forced reaction) why can it prevent Forced interrupt?

 

Edit: I must have mistook it for Catelyn. Still, it is rather strange.



#12
ktom

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Edit: I must have mistook it for Catelyn. Still, it is rather strange.

 

It's not really strange at all.

 

Catelyn's effect cannot be readily compared to cancels like Treachery. This is because Catelyn creates a play restriction that stops opponents from triggering abilities in the first place while cancels stop an ability from resolving after it is triggered. It really is apples-and-oranges.

 

The harder part, really, is that even though they count as triggered abilities, Forced effects are not considered to be triggered by players. This is because the players have no choice in whether to trigger them or not. It's the fact that the player is not triggering the Forced Effect that prevents Catelyn from stopping their initiation.

 

Forced Effects in 2.0 are like passive effects in 1.0.


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#13
szczudel

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I played a little 1st ed, but I find it a very accurate comparison to 1st ed passives.

 

One just has to appreciate how game got more transparent and intuitive with Forced ... and costant abilities.

 

I generally do not like Treachery because it messes up with your on board resources (abilities). One thing is an deadly event and another cancelling Aemon or Ghaston Grey. I would probably had different attitude towards it if this event was in any other faction (except Bara and GJ).

I embrace my hater's hate toward this card with pride :)



#14
CthulhuDad

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What happens if I 'Treachery' Varys, is he still removed from the game?

Thanks in advance

#15
ktom

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Yes. Treachery only cancels the effect, not the cost.

It's the old "Do X to do Y" thing. You still have to pay the "X," but the cancel stops the "Y" from happening.

Since Varys is "Remove Varys from the game to discard all characters," removing him is a cost (X) which still must be paid even though the effect of discarding everything (Y) is canceled.



#16
kevinwh

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Can trechery stop the use of a duplicate on a character in play?

#17
istaril

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Can trechery stop the use of a duplicate on a character in play?

 

No, for two reasons. 

 

1) "Duplicates, rr p7" (emphasis mine) specifically state they cannot be cancelled.

 

A duplicate grants its controller the following triggered

game ability: “Interrupt : When the overlapping unique

card would leave play, discard this duplicate to save that

card. (Cannot be canceled.)”

 

 

2) Treachery's text reads 

Interrupt: When the effects of a triggered character, location, or attachment ability would initiate, cancel those effects.

 

 

This does not include "game abilities"


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#18
ocedy

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I would like to chime in with a related question:

Can one Treachery the reaction on pleasure bark. I would argue no, since the bark is immune to basically everything, but I'm not 100 percent sure. Thank you for your time

#19
istaril

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Immunity, rr p9. The card is immune to card effects, but its effect is not - so you can cancel it with treachery.

 

Only the card itself is protected, and peripheral entities associated with an immune card (such as attachments, tokens, abilities originating from an immune card, or duplicates) are not themselves immune.

 



#20
migelpig

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If Unsworn Apprentice (Challenges Action: Unsworn Apprentice gains a challenge icon of your choice until the end of the phase. (Limit once per phase.)) gets cancelled can you trigger it's effect again?

 

Basicly is the Limit once per phase part of the effect?