286 replies to this topic

[klaus]

We can use this thread to discuss all the decks using the Greyjoy Faction ! (probably a lot of decks right now).

 

Currently, I have approx 40+ games with them on OCTGN. And they are my favorite faction in theme, style of play, and lore. I will be talking of course from my perspective on these games only because i'm new to the Got experience (not new to lcg, i come from netrunner).

 

General

 

First, I would like to say, Greyjoy is, if not first, one of the higher factions in terms of effectiveness. I would rate them tier 1 from the core experience.

 

Pros

-Lots of Stealth

-Good traits in general(Pillage, renown)

-Great 7 cost char

-Way to deal with enemy locations and attachments (We do not sow, Lordsport Shipwright)

-Great Sinergy between their cards (Stealth + effects when unopossed, ships and Drowned, etc)

 

Cons

- Few Intrigue Chars

 

 

Can't really think of any other particular weakness on this faction.

 

Characters

Asha is my favorite character right now. Running 3 of her is a must. Her ability allows you to stand her when she wins an unnoposed challenge, that means more challenges to win. Asha with little bird helps her get that third challenge, and saving her from tear of lys.

Euron is one of the best 7 cost in the game. Tricon with high strength. Renown and Pillage. Plus an ability that lets you take control of enemy locations. Getting an additional Kingsroad, or getting to use your own Casterly Rock is amazing, and a little sad for your opponent.

Balon is the main target for milk of the poppy in this faction. His ability lets you get so many unopposed challenges. You can even put Kraken to stealth those really strong Characters. Or use Throwing axe if a same strenght enemy wants to opposed you. Nobody opposes the Lord Reaper of Pyke !

You also get two more Stealth characters in this faction (Theon and Meister). A character with pillage to help Euron. You got Alannis for some annoying hand reduce effect and Aeron that helps you put characters in play from the dead pile (That's amazing btw).

 

Locations

The big location, Kraken, gives you card drawn and a help in power claim when you're close to the finish line. That alone would've been great. But if you have balon, he gets stealth. I would say 3 cost is actually not expensive at all.

 

Iron Fleet gives you more str, 2 if you are the first player (As Greyjoy you always want to be the first player). You can splash 3 of these in your deck, at 0 cost is never bad to draw these babies. Also, you want them in play for your drowned men.

 

Events

Risen allows you to save a character and give him 1 more str. Is always great to have an unexpected save on hand. Also you can make balon almost unopossable by anyone. Zero cost btw.

 

Kraken Grasp on theory is pretty good. You can remove the str of a defending char on a challenge. However is a 5 str or lower char. I know that sounds pretty good, however in all my games i haven't used it at all. With balon and lots of stealth, you never seem to need it. Still an awesome event and is a zero cost too.

 

We do not sow is really a versatile event. You get to remove a Wall, or an annoying Plaza for just 1 gold. You get to remove milk from your characters. You get to choose a location that you can steal later with euron. 3 of these cards on your deck is the perfect amount.

 

Attachment.

I really believe Throwing Axe is an Overkill. Another help to get an unopposed challenge out of fear of getting your defending character killed. You almost never get to use it, but having it on a big character gets the effect you need.

 

Banners

I haven't tested everyone, so i would love to get feedback on these.

 

Stark:  You get Arya, another stealth, and Sansa with an intrigue icon and a strong ability. However all the other military chars is not something you need. Also, just one usable event (just for starks). In my opinion the starks are not really a good banner house.

 

Tyrell: Good Banner. Margaery is Amazing in any faction. And left and right helps you with the defense. Also the events in this house are fun to play.

 

Lannister: All the green icons you need. Also cancels and remove characters that annoy.

 

Baratheon: My favorite banner so far. You get the melisandre team (Rhllor's), all have green icons btw, and get to kneel any char that stops you from getting those unopposed challenges. Also get another stealth with davos, who you can keep returning to your hand if you go all crazy on attack and don't want to def mil challenges.

 

Playing Against

 

Greyjoy: I Would say is pretty much who can get his table running the fastest. We have a pretty strong start so is all on the draw + plots.

 

Lannister: You really need to milk tyrion and get rid of cersei fast. They can ruin your hand if you don't get kraken early. Always remember about tear.

 

Targaryen: They have been my strongest enemy. They have a good set of icons among their chars. Daenerys messes up with balon str and burns are of course strong against any faction. Put to the sword from very early has been my only solution against them (Use it on dragons or whoever is on the table, they all so strong).

 

Nightwatch: Not a big deal, Berjen and ghost really troublesome for the stealth, however, most of their chars are really low on str, so balon is your main char in this matchup. Just keep them kneel with filthy accusations and make sure to get the wall kneeled every turn.

 

Martell: Viper with green challenges and Dorans game can't get really annoying. There is really no way to opposed that kind of play in late game, so you have to start strong and snowball from there. No need to fill table, just make sure to kill a lot of chars and don't let them fill theirs. We do not sow is a great tool in this matchup.

 

Tyrell: I didn't think left and right were good. But the fact that they dont have to kneel to defend makes them so strong against you. Also queen is probably going to win every int challenge so you need to get her out of the game fast. Growing strong will mess up your challenges, so you need to be aware of that every time.

 

Baratheon: The kneel is strong. I don't run any way to stand up my characters, so i guess that would be a counter play i should try. Robert is in my opinion the best 7 cost, however you can stealth him so put to the sword will be your friend here too. I think you have to really build a game plan on your deck for this matchup.

 

Stark: Easy so far. They can outrun you on military, however stealth is way too strong. If we are talking both fealty, i don't see any problem on this match up.

 

Plots

Confiscation: You will get milked everytime.

Filthy Accusations: Kneel someone you can't stealth or a big guy you can't out Balon.

Head on Spikes: Please use it on any faction.

Marched to the wall: Very strong for me if i get a good early game. Helps you get control on the table and has a big initiative.

Sneak Attack: Amazing to get first player and if you have a good challenge you can't fail. (Easily a 5 claim Pow challenge with renowns, and kraken if you get unopposed).

 

Those are my favorite to use, the others depend on the kind of deck and banner i'm using.

 

Hope to hear what you think about the Lords of the sea !

[Sokhar]

Great post. How about a deck list?

[klaus]

Currently using this:

 

http://thronesdb.com...iew/51/greystag

 

Seen In Flames is a really strong card, plus a r'hllor so i wanted to give it a try. Removed one Iron Fleet Scout and one We Do Not Sow from my usual 3 on both. Also thinking if King's Hunting Party is worth the deck space.

 

Would love to hear some feedback !

[scantrell24]

My favorite agendas for Greyjoy are

 

1. Fealty - Risen, Throwing Axe, Scout, and Aeron are better with all Greyjoy characters

2. Baratheon Banner - Intrigue icons and kneel pair nicely with Greyjoy's stealth, as klaus noted

3. Tyrell Banner - Rush hard with 2-3x Superior Claim

4. Lannister Banner - Tyrion + Put to the Sword, plenty of Lords/Ladies for Joffrey

5. Martell Banner - Dornish Paramour is great

[szczudel]

Cheap, cheap, cheap and oh yeah, cheap.

That is how I see GJ. If you are looking for easy mode - this is faction for you.

[mnBroncos]

Greyjoy with lannister is my best deck. I'm around 10-1 with it.

[ZackyMidnight]

Wonderful job. We now have gj and Martell but would love to see all factions with posts like this.

[Solaris]

Wonderful job. We now have gj and Martell but would love to see all factions with posts like this.

I would love to see a Stark thread, but I can see why we don't have one yet because they're probably one of the worst factions coming out of the Core.

[maxchaos]

I would love to see a Stark thread, but I can see why we don't have one yet because they're probably one of the worst factions coming out of the Core.

Well, I wipe the enemy board turn 1 and onward in 75% of my games with Stark so far. So I don't know where did u get that idea...

[ooo]

I can tell you where the Greyjoy weakness is, and it's a big one.

Greyjoys are bullies.  When they're winning their cards get better and they win more, but when they're losing a lot of their cards become worse and do little to avoid the game slipping away.  Greyjoy both win and lose games in a snowball fashion.

[sparrowhawk]

@klaus

Firstly, I would like to thank you for a great opening post. And for creating a thread where Greyjoy can be discussed. I would have responded earlier but tonight was Netrunner night here (UK). I will discuss some of your points later in this post but first...


----

Cheap, cheap, cheap and oh yeah, cheap.
That is how I see GJ. If you are looking for easy mode - this is faction for you.

I appreciate from your language that you are not a native English speaker. So I would like to think that you are not naturally rude but instead this is a breakdown in communication.

Your response says winning playing Greyjoy is "easy mode" - so it is beneath you? Are you acquainted with Sirlin's book "Playing to Win"? If not, here is a link to a summary.

http://www.sirlin.ne.../playing-to-win

To explain the relevance, anybody who derides a way of winning as "cheap", "too easy" etc is simply handicapping themselves by imposing some higher standard that they are going to play to. In gaming circles, this type of player is known as a "scrub".

So if you continue to denigrate the poster's way of winning as "easy mode" and beneath you, apart from being incredibly rude to everyone who posts on this thread (because we are all playing "easy mode" according to the great gaming guru - you), you are also displaying classic symptoms of being a scrub, of being someone who imposes silly standards on himself and thereby ends up left behind when it comes to understanding the evolving game better.

Now, as I said, I would like to excuse your incredible rudeness as just a language issue. But it's ironic that (if you read the link), the cry of every scrub is ... "cheap".

Winning is winning and there are no points for style. Nobody cares as long as you played within the game's rules and conducted yourself in a manner that you are proud of. Calling everyone who plays Greyjoy "playing on easy mode" will not help you become a better player. Maybe you don't need to improve. Me, I like to both learn and share my learnings without being derided as playing on "easy mode".

Ask yourself this: is the hobby enriched or lessened by klaus starting this post and making the effort with that opening post? Better or worse? Now ask yourself this - have you contributed positively or negatively to the hobby with your post? It's SO easy to deride people's enthusiasm. Why not do something positive and start a thread on one of the "hard mode" factions that you feel is worthy of your attention and expertise?

As I said, I'm sure this was just an error in translation and the rudeness of your comment was never intended.


----

Well, I wipe the enemy board turn 1 and onward in 75% of my games with Stark so far. So I don't know where did u get that idea...

Wow! You board clear 75% of your games in turn 1. From this, I can only assume 1 of 6 things:
1. You are an amazing Thrones players
2. You are consistently lucky with openings like (set up) Rob + Knight + (turn 1) Sneak Attack + Ice + Put to the Sword + Winter is Coming = 5
3. Your opponents are beginners to the game
4. They are incredibly unlucky, opening 1 character (after mulligan) that you Marched to the Wall then killed the rest with usual murder tricks
5. There is a bit of exaggeration involved here
6. The game is broken

I personally think it's the last one. Based on this (shaky) anecdotal evidence, the game is broken! It's obvious that Stark is overpowered if it can board clear 75% of the time. (Obviously the 25% was when their turn 1 plot was "A Game of Thrones"? Though Calm over Westeros and False Accusations also causes turn 1 board clear problems.) And to think Greyjoy is "easy mode"! Yet here's a House that can consistently board clear in turn 1. Wow.

Though what happens when your Stark meets a deck like this?


Faction: Greyjoy

Agenda: (1)
1x Fealty (Core Set)

Plot: (7)
1x Confiscation (Core Set)
1x Filthy Accusations (Core Set)
1x Marched to the Wall (Core Set)
2x Sneak Attack (Core Set)
1x The Winds of Winter (Core Set)
1x Heads on Spikes (Core Set)

Character: (30)
1x Aeron Damphair (Core Set)
1x Alannys Greyjoy (Core Set)
3x Asha Greyjoy (Core Set)
3x Balon Greyjoy (Core Set)
3x Black Wind’s Crew (Core Set)
3x Euron Crow’s Eye (Core Set)
3x Iron Islands Fishmonger (Core Set)
3x Littlefinger (Core Set)
3x Lordsport Shipwright (Core Set)
1x Maester Wendamyr (Core Set)
3x Salty Navigator (Core Set)
3x Theon Greyjoy (Core Set)

Attachment: (6)
3x Throwing Axe (Core Set)
3x Bodyguard (Core Set)

Event: (9)
3x We Do Not Sow (Core Set)
3x Put to the Sword (Core Set)
3x Risen from the Sea (Core Set)

Location: (15)
3x Great Kraken (Core Set)
3x Iron Fleet Scout (Core Set)
3x Sea Tower (Core Set)
3x The Kingsroad (Core Set)
3x The Roseroad (Core Set)


A deck that is cheaper, faster, more efficient, bypasses your best defences, has almost as many kills and is more resilient with its saves? Is it still a 75% turn 1 board clear record? So just maybe this is all a case of who you are playing against?

So just maybe Solaris has been facing Quality opponents? And you haven't? Because do you honestly think the designers would release a game which had a consistent 75% turn 1 board clear?

I suspect this was just an exercise to say "look Solaris, I am a better Stark player than you". You may well be. You may not. None of us know the quality of the opposition faced by either of you. But by proudly quoting a 75% turn 1 board clear record, many people would think that your quality of opponents may not have been great...

Then again, you may well be right - you have broken the game. Congratulations.


----


@klaus

So getting back to the subject of your excellent post that contributes positively to the hobby, I found myself in agreement with most of what you wrote. A few points to add (and slightly disagree in places)...

Risen by the Sea (vs Bodyguard)
Any good player will attack you in Intrigue first (to possibly take Risen out of your hand) before Military. Now it is true that they have to trigger Tears of Lys before claim - but you can't save the poison until end of challenges after claim. So Risen may be cost 0 but it is a less stable defence than a cost 1 Bodyguard (that protects every unique except Wendamyr and stacks now). And the latter also saves against control decks that run Varys (this is sadly rare in a Core aggro meta that focuses on board control via Military). So why do I run Risen in the build above? Because Risen is golden against burn that eats through dupes and Bodyguard and Targ is stronger than Intrigue in the meta. Because Risen can raise you to STR 1 so that the terminal effect no longer applies. As you point out, Targ is a horrendous match up (my first game ever, I was burnt to cinders) so that is why I've changed the deck to include Risen.

Kraken's Grasp / Throwing Axe
I used to play Kraken's Grasp but like you, I realised it was "Win More" because I play 3x Throwing Axe. Grasp is also card disadvantage as, unlike a kill or save card, it's pure tempo and challenge maths that it alters, enabling unopposed. It's also a dead card if he wins initiative. So I replaced them for the telegraphed Put to the Sword (who cares if it's telegraphed if the option is to block with big dude who dies to Throwing Axe or block with small dude and Scouts pump you to +5). But Throwing Axe is (in my less than humble opinion) invaluable GJ tech to force the +5 maths or unopposed. It's something you threaten but rarely use without a good target, requires subtlety as opposed to the "I kill your biggest dude" of Ice. If he has just a big dude and a chud and he blocks your claim 1 military with a chud, of course kill the chud then claim 1 on the big dude. But often, the Axe is there as an enabler to get you the unopposed (or the +5 for Sword). Now I am talking about running x3 in the above Fealty build where 25 characters are Ironborn. In banner builds, you run less I guess.

We Do Not Sow
I particularly like an Axe on a Shipwright (Ironborn with intrigue). He's not going to block with Tyrion, is he? So I get unopposed, play We Do Not Sow and remove the Milk on my Balon, who now attacks (note that a Milked Balon with Kraken would still have Steath). However, the top target for We Do Not Sow is their card draw location. It is glorious when Euron takes control of the Mander or the Red Keep. MTG equivalent of this amazingly versatile card was "Disenchant" (which removed 1 of 2 card types). I really don't recommend you go down to 2 copies in your deck linked.

Iron Fleet Scout
Again this is a card you have dropped down to 2 copies in your deck linked. I really don't recommend it. It gives great set ups (free card draw) and creates amazing challenge maths issues. It is also invaluable against Targ when you are first player (most of the time) as it then protects you from Dracarys (but not if going second). One trick i have done is to seem like I have forgetten the Dany or Unsullied effect. I use Iron Fleet Scout as if I was protecting myself against Dracarys then when they play it, I play Risen. Of course, this doesn't work against players who know I wouldn't make such a mistake, so only really works once against a new opponent. Note also there is an action window after declaring Balon to pump him to unblockable.

Moving to your deck, I suspect your meetings with Targ may have convinced you to play Hunting Party, But it is honestly a limited card because of its single icon. I understand that there must be a Hyper Aggro meta out there to force you to play such a one dimensional card. But if you want to find room for that 3rd Scout and Sow that you dropped, look no further than the Hunting Party (and reduce your cost curve too). I see why you have such a card in your deck but I don't think you need it against Targ, you just need to be aware of Targ tricks (put Bodyguard on Alannys in anticipation of Plaza etc, going first you need to anticipate the threats the opponent can marshall on you afterwards, that's why you have no defence vs Varys beyond dupes and Bodyguard as he won't play him if you saved 2 for Sword).

Anyway, that's my feedback on your excellent post. I am no expert so it's just my unqualified opinion.


----


Now here is a question I want to ask the forum: when you trigger Kraken, when do you collect cards and when do you collect power? My rule of thumb is as follows:

1. going first
{a} if I have at least X cards in hand (X = opponent's total intrigue claim inc. possible informant) and my power is not >10, I take the card (unless I have so many cards in hand that I don't need it)
{b} if I have no cards in hand, I take the power unless the opponent poses no intrigue threat

2. going second
{c} I take the card unless my power is >10 when I take the power

So what do other people do when they trigger Kraken? It's annoying that you like to go first but your card draw can then be intrigued. It is however good that FFG have designed a skillful card draw engine that has a decision point (as opposed to the randomness of Winterfell).

I like decision points and, because Stealth adds to your decisions in a game, I think that is why I am enjoying Greyjoy so much. However, I can't help but feel the game is too heavily slanted to the turn 1 momentum and that there needs to be a comeback mechanism for players who aren't just one-box casual gamers, some meta-changer that gets released in the first pack (like Plascrete, Howard and Clot in Netrunner). I would be happy if this "who gets off the blocks fastest" meta is changed in Pack 1. Please.

But that's a whole another thread...

[Sokhar]

That whole post was basically another thread. Damn dude! :-p

[szczudel]

@hawk. I guess you are an American because you obviously are in love with what you are saying, this is easily recognizable by how you are saying those things.

 

What I wrote is what i meant. GJ out of CS is cheap, no point in denying that.:

-events that cost nothing and flip board situation,

-shitload of stealth, 

-Euron and Damphair abilities.

GJ cheapness is objective assessment of their potential.

 

Make no mistake, defeating GJ is 100% possible with every faction, but you must be blind not to recognize their advantage over any other faction. now, what I like to do when I see someone setuping GJ (or Bara) is to take my deck (I even call it anti-GJ/Bara) with Naval Superiority and choke them to death. It is priceless, you should experience it sometime. It is so effective that it even teaches people not to use NS vulnerable plots as openings ever again. Then you can choke those same people on second round - pure fun I'm telling you.

 

About all this scrub mumbo-jumbo. Now, try to imagine there are people that play for fun, solely. They want to play, play spectacularly. Wining is secondary goal for them. I could read only half of that article, I stopped at justifying cheats. I could not read it anymore after this point. I remember Uncharted 2 multiplayer, "Temple" map. I remember some French (who else obviously) guys cheat jumping into a column and shooting everyone out of it while being immune to any gun, not to mention they were not visible except their guns. 

There are rules of play, made in order to create decent experience for every player. If you are calling me a scrub for calling such behavior by name then I do not have to feel offended by your calling me names.

I am not as you refereed "handicapping" myself, I just set myself goal a little bit higher. When I play against cheap faction/mechanic I know I need to be the one flexible. But when you loose because in opening hand someone, without any gold, is using twice Risen from the sea on your double claim after perfect choke - I call it by name: cheap it fu%$ing is.  

 

 

There is only one hard-mode faction at the moment in my opinion. Night's Watch. I will not post a thread about it because after intensive testing, research my verdict about it can be only one - randomness influences outcome so much that it is too early to call it stable. This randomness does not involve opponent you are playing but resources you might lack, i.e. Roseroads not appearing early in game. 

[klaus]

So getting back to the subject of your excellent post that contributes positively to the hobby, I found myself in agreement with most of what you wrote. A few points to add (and slightly disagree in places)...

Risen by the Sea (vs Bodyguard)
Any good player will attack you in Intrigue first (to possibly take Risen out of your hand) before Military. Now it is true that they have to trigger Tears of Lys before claim - but you can't save the poison until end of challenges after claim. So Risen may be cost 0 but it is a less stable defence than a cost 1 Bodyguard (that protects every unique except Wendamyr and stacks now). And the latter also saves against control decks that run Varys (this is sadly rare in a Core aggro meta that focuses on board control via Military). So why do I run Risen in the build above? Because Risen is golden against burn that eats through dupes and Bodyguard and Targ is stronger than Intrigue in the meta. Because Risen can raise you to STR 1 so that the terminal effect no longer applies. As you point out, Targ is a horrendous match up (my first game ever, I was burnt to cinders) so that is why I've changed the deck to include Risen.

Kraken's Grasp / Throwing Axe
I used to play Kraken's Grasp but like you, I realised it was "Win More" because I play 3x Throwing Axe. Grasp is also card disadvantage as, unlike a kill or save card, it's pure tempo and challenge maths that it alters, enabling unopposed. It's also a dead card if he wins initiative. So I replaced them for the telegraphed Put to the Sword (who cares if it's telegraphed if the option is to block with big dude who dies to Throwing Axe or block with small dude and Scouts pump you to +5). But Throwing Axe is (in my less than humble opinion) invaluable GJ tech to force the +5 maths or unopposed. It's something you threaten but rarely use without a good target, requires subtlety as opposed to the "I kill your biggest dude" of Ice. If he has just a big dude and a chud and he blocks your claim 1 military with a chud, of course kill the chud then claim 1 on the big dude. But often, the Axe is there as an enabler to get you the unopposed (or the +5 for Sword). Now I am talking about running x3 in the above Fealty build where 25 characters are Ironborn. In banner builds, you run less I guess.

We Do Not Sow
I particularly like an Axe on a Shipwright (Ironborn with intrigue). He's not going to block with Tyrion, is he? So I get unopposed, play We Do Not Sow and remove the Milk on my Balon, who now attacks (note that a Milked Balon with Kraken would still have Steath). However, the top target for We Do Not Sow is their card draw location. It is glorious when Euron takes control of the Mander or the Red Keep. MTG equivalent of this amazingly versatile card was "Disenchant" (which removed 1 of 2 card types). I really don't recommend you go down to 2 copies in your deck linked.

Iron Fleet Scout
Again this is a card you have dropped down to 2 copies in your deck linked. I really don't recommend it. It gives great set ups (free card draw) and creates amazing challenge maths issues. It is also invaluable against Targ when you are first player (most of the time) as it then protects you from Dracarys (but not if going second). One trick i have done is to seem like I have forgetten the Dany or Unsullied effect. I use Iron Fleet Scout as if I was protecting myself against Dracarys then when they play it, I play Risen. Of course, this doesn't work against players who know I wouldn't make such a mistake, so only really works once against a new opponent. Note also there is an action window after declaring Balon to pump him to unblockable.

Moving to your deck, I suspect your meetings with Targ may have convinced you to play Hunting Party, But it is honestly a limited card because of its single icon. I understand that there must be a Hyper Aggro meta out there to force you to play such a one dimensional card. But if you want to find room for that 3rd Scout and Sow that you dropped, look no further than the Hunting Party (and reduce your cost curve too). I see why you have such a card in your deck but I don't think you need it against Targ, you just need to be aware of Targ tricks (put Bodyguard on Alannys in anticipation of Plaza etc, going first you need to anticipate the threats the opponent can marshall on you afterwards, that's why you have no defence vs Varys beyond dupes and Bodyguard as he won't play him if you saved 2 for Sword).

Anyway, that's my feedback on your excellent post. I am no expert so it's just my unqualified opinion.
 

 

Thanks for the feedback !

 

I like your take on bodyguard, and how risen is of course vulnerable in hand. But as you say, that +1 str is really good for the rest of the game. So far i'm playing the risk, maybe i'll try to play the safe route later and see if it pays.

 

I want to play 3 iron scouts, but my experience in lcg makes me wanna be really strict with my limits on card types. I mean already 14 locations seem like a lot. Should i play 15 locations ? should i remove one kraken ? one of the economy ones ? I don't know.

 

Hunting party has been only succesful on helping me get those put to the sword, even when im behind. So i would say is my only comeback right now. Yet, I would be willing to trade those 2. Again, i'm not sure if i want to include more events, i like the amount of chars right now. Maybe some Lordsport Shipwright could find a way in my game plan.

 

I do have to admit i need to play a smarter game against targaryen. Probably the 3 ships will help me with that, so the third will find its way back sooner or later.

 

 

Now here is a question I want to ask the forum: when you trigger Kraken, when do you collect cards and when do you collect power? My rule of thumb is as follows:

1. going first
{a} if I have at least X cards in hand (X = opponent's total intrigue claim inc. possible informant) and my power is not >10, I take the card (unless I have so many cards in hand that I don't need it)
{b} if I have no cards in hand, I take the power unless the opponent poses no intrigue threat

2. going second
{c} I take the card unless my power is >10 when I take the power

So what do other people do when they trigger Kraken? It's annoying that you like to go first but your card draw can then be intrigued. It is however good that FFG have designed a skillful card draw engine that has a decision point (as opposed to the randomness of Winterfell).

I like decision points and, because Stealth adds to your decisions in a game, I think that is why I am enjoying Greyjoy so much. However, I can't help but feel the game is too heavily slanted to the turn 1 momentum and that there needs to be a comeback mechanism for players who aren't just one-box casual gamers, some meta-changer that gets released in the first pack (like Plascrete, Howard and Clot in Netrunner). I would be happy if this "who gets off the blocks fastest" meta is changed in Pack 1. Please.

But that's a whole another thread...

 

I have to say, I always play kraken the same way you do. However, if i see i can set myself on 10 points at the end of that turn, i would push for those power, because i know a really good sneak attack would take me to the win on the next turn. (I have seen games where i start one turn on 6 power, next turn i win). Maybe is risky play, and an experienced player will know what challenges he can make to stop you, however i'm enjoying all the back and forth, and the responses people find to those turns.

[ooo]

You play 3x Iron Fleet Scout, and feel sorry it couldn't be 6x.
 

[Masus04]

@hawk. I guess you are an American because you obviously are in love with what you are saying, this is easily recognizable by how you are saying those things.

 

What I wrote is what i meant. GJ out of CS is cheap, no point in denying that.:

-events that cost nothing and flip board situation,

-shitload of stealth, 

-Euron and Damphair abilities.

GJ cheapness is objective assessment of their potential.

 

Make no mistake, defeating GJ is 100% possible with every faction, but you must be blind not to recognize their advantage over any other faction. now, what I like to do when I see someone setuping GJ (or Bara) is to take my deck (I even call it anti-GJ/Bara) with Naval Superiority and choke them to death. It is priceless, you should experience it sometime. It is so effective that it even teaches people not to use NS vulnerable plots as openings ever again. Then you can choke those same people on second round - pure fun I'm telling you.

 

About all this scrub mumbo-jumbo. Now, try to imagine there are people that play for fun, solely. They want to play, play spectacularly. Wining is secondary goal for them. I could read only half of that article, I stopped at justifying cheats. I could not read it anymore after this point. I remember Uncharted 2 multiplayer, "Temple" map. I remember some French (who else obviously) guys cheat jumping into a column and shooting everyone out of it while being immune to any gun, not to mention they were not visible except their guns. 

There are rules of play, made in order to create decent experience for every player. If you are calling me a scrub for calling such behavior by name then I do not have to feel offended by your calling me names.

I am not as you refereed "handicapping" myself, I just set myself goal a little bit higher. When I play against cheap faction/mechanic I know I need to be the one flexible. But when you loose because in opening hand someone, without any gold, is using twice Risen from the sea on your double claim after perfect choke - I call it by name: cheap it fu%$ing is.  

 

 

There is only one hard-mode faction at the moment in my opinion. Night's Watch. I will not post a thread about it because after intensive testing, research my verdict about it can be only one - randomness influences outcome so much that it is too early to call it stable. This randomness does not involve opponent you are playing but resources you might lack, i.e. Roseroads not appearing early in game. 

 

I just like the part where you assume you know better than everybody else, including the developement team that worked on this game for months if not years. And if there is only one faction that is not overpowered ("hardmode"), doesn't this mean the game as a whole is pretty well trimmed and you just feel this one faction is a bit weaker than the rest?

 

Well, enjoy yourself hating.

[Wosho]

Actually Sparrowhawk i have got the same results with my Stark murder deck.

I only lost one game vs another Stark who murders me faster.

And it was like 20 games on octgn so i dont think all those ppl were bad.

Starks are not worst faction in core set.

[szczudel]

@Masus. Point me to that fragment. Because I have missed it.

 

GJ in game is surely based on what it is in books. Bunch of sickerpunching, hit-and-run, "we used to be great" wanabes lords. I think that design team did fantastic job when creating faction character. 

[sparrowhawk]

Actually Sparrowhawk i have got the same results with my Stark murder deck.

I only lost one game vs another Stark who murders me faster.

And it was like 20 games on octgn so i dont think all those ppl were bad.

Starks are not worst faction in core set.

 

No, I suspect Night's Watch are (sadly, as they are the most innovative design).

Although with combo-control, it's always one card away from being NPE broken.

 

Firstly, I don't want this reply to sound confrontational. I've been finding myself in agreement with most of what you have posted on this forum.

 

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It's good to hear you have had success with Stark. Just out of curiosity - what are your records with the other Houses? If they are similar, then maybe you are just a good player?

 

I know Stark players are incredibly touchy about their House (see another thread about Stark & Lannister gauntlet) but my question is simply this: "why would I choose the combo mega-kill potential of Stark over the consistent efficiency of GJ?"

 

Stark have the advantage of 2 extra military claim in Winter is Coming (cost 1 loyal) and Ice (cost 3 loyal), latter fully targeted kill.

But Ice can only kill on Knights (cost 2) or Ned (cost 7) or Rob (cost 6) or Arya with dupe (cost 3) - not many targets for it really.

In addition, Ned & Rob have no intrigue so are often targeted for Tears when going second (carrying Ice, that's 9-10 gold down).

Admittedly Ice and For the North help trigger Put to the Sword - but that's a lot of moving pieces that you need for a 5 kill attack.

 

Now GJ have got Axe (cost 1) which is more about block deterrent, but can be used for claim raise, even in non-military attacks,

To get Put to the Sword's +5, they have Stealth (repeatable) and 0 cost Iron Fleet Scouts (repeatable).

However, they also have 0 cost buff saves in Risen from the Sea! That's a cancel of one of Stark's expensive extra kills.

 

So then it comes to set up and initiative?

GJ has far cheaper cards hence a better set up than Stark.

And GJ have Salty Navigator for initiative edge in a Sneak Attack opening.

 

And then we have the poor locations Stark has, the poor card draw.

 

Looking at (just as an example) the Greyjoy Fealty build I listed above, it seems to me that it would be very hard for Stark (look at its cost structure) to undercut GJ set up and start.

 

Now I don't doubt you have had great success so far on OCTGN with Stark. But for anyone thinking "which Aggro build should I play?", it's hard to justify choosing the clunkier more expensive less focused Stark pool over GJ. In my analysis anyway.

 

It doesn't mean that Stark can't win - of course they can. I just feel the GJ deck above has the edge on cost efficiency, speed, agility and resilience.

 

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What this does prove (that Sakhor saw right through) is that my whole post above was actually my not-so-subtle attempt to influence the forum to accept Valar. Because currently it is all about random opening draws and who gets the best start. Is that a game?

 

I loved Thrones 1.0 because it taught you RESTRAINT. Games like Conquest are all about just playing as many cards as possible. Thrones 1.0 was different, it was subtle, playing less was often better. How amazing a game is that? To be like Doran, playing The Long Game. There were mind games with counter plots and game clocks with self-abuse for running the reset - it was such a SUBTLE game with Valar in the game. What have they done to The Beautiful Game that they have removed that whole layer of cleverness? Please, say it ain't so!

 

This thread has become derailed by this Stark sidetrack. But when a game boils down to 2 players flopping out their decks on the table and deciding who has got the bigger one, that's a pretty sad spectacle for a "game", isn't it? There's got to be more subtlety than just momentum and combo kill draws - surely?

 

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Let's bring this back to GJ.

 

So anybody want to share a GJ Banner build? MBroncos mentioned Banner Lion, one of the best Banner Houses. Here. Tyrion helps you get Intrigue unopposed vs intrigue weak houses and you don't lose the momentum of saving 2 for Put to the Sword (so telegraphed). Widow's Wail is lovely on Balon (or Asha as 4 STR makes you a target of Confinement / Consolidate / Dracarys). The only problem is finding good 12 cards that fit here. I reckon this will be awesome with a few good non-loyal Lion cards (despite the fact that so much GJ synergy only works with GJ cards).

 

Tyrell gives you more power gain rush in Loras and Randyll as well as intrigue in Courtesans. But so many high end characters feels rather shakey in cost curve. Also Loras doesn't work with Stealth really.

 

Martell are great because Paramours clear the way for unopposed and the Knights are the best 2 costers in the game. Edric also helps push unopposed and Dawn can be placed on any character. You don't need to build it to go second.

 

Klaus has already championed the Stag Banner and I champion Fealty. Does anyone want to champion other Banners for GJ decks? Give a deck list and explain the pros and cons of their choice?

[Wosho]

I am not making any notes about my winning percentage. Its my personal feeling about specific deck, with this i win more then with another one.

I played with all houses and the most succesful one is Starks murder and Martell controll.

I think i have lost only a couple games, i am new to Agot, played just couple of 1 ed games, and couple more with HBO version.

But i also played warhammer invasion, netrunner and conquest so i am not new in card games topic.

I dont know if i am already a good player couse octgn has various skilled players and there a lot of beginners trying game right now, will have to wait till some real life tournaments begin.

When i was playing starks most opponents starts with calm over westeros. I was countering it with sneak attack and winter is coming. That means that opponent had two casualties in first turn. Depending on rest of the board i used marched to the wall as next plot or storm of sword/winds of winter to finish him off.

I am not saying that it will happen 100% of time, its what i have experienced with my murder deck.

Sorry for small offtopic i just dont agree that starks are the worst house in coreset.

In my opinion good player can win with every house, but some houses are easier to play then others. Baratheons vs Night watch for example.

 

The card thats making a diffrence imho is winter is coming, couse in case of GJ you are halted with calm of westeros and later with game of thrones. So thats probably two turns when You are not killing anyone. And then its not that easy when opponent has build his board.

I played only a couple games as GJ and to me they are less consistent then starks. But Asha with little bird is so much fun

I am playing GJs as location control choke, try to kill at least one char every turn, discard any gold/card providing location and slowly finish him off

Sorry for my english.