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The 2nd Edition Stark thread

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#221
daviduk2000

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I've been playing stark fealty for about 2 months now. 3rd place 3time now haha 1 Store champ 2 winter kits.
Anyway I run two sneak attacks and if it looks like I can win a mil victory based on the board and my hand I'll almost always open sneak attack (I run 2) however depending on how my opponent marshals this turn I have actually occasionally changed my mind to a intrigue challenge even sometimes using a winter is coming to make it 3 claim. Knowing that my opponents options have just become very limited because my opponent tried to flood to board to help mitigate my military challenge and then I discarded 3 of there hand is actually sometimes more effective to me and makes my future plot choices much easier.
So I don't find it too hurtful when my opponent plays game of thrones. But then that also depends on wether I can win it or not which I don't actually find too difficult myself. But my meta tends to main greyjoy and targ.

#222
Primpod

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I just top 4'd at nottingham store championships with essentially the deck below, only swapping a confiscation for a marched. It's really fun. The only other player playing stark as either main house or agenda top 8'd as well. I found it was most succesful when you just keep a bit of pressure on and slow down, building a critical mass of combat tricks. Got steamrolled by a lanni/rose at the end.

 

http://thronesdb.com...ment-winner-1.0


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#223
sparrowhawk

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Thought I'd share this... This is a "Stark Gauntlet Deck" for The King's Peace meta that all these Tyrell/Rose Rush decks have got to be able to beat to be tournament credible.

 

 

STARK KNIGHTS & WOLVES
Pool: cards to The King's Peace
Total Cards: (60)
 
Faction: Stark
 
Agenda: (1)
1x Fealty (Core Set)
 
Plot: (7)
1x A Storm of Swords (Core Set)
1x Confiscation (Core Set)
1x Marched to the Wall (Core Set)
1x Naval Superiority (Core Set)
2x Sneak Attack (Core Set)
1x The Winds of Winter (Core Set)
 
Character: (36)
3x Arya Stark (Core Set)
3x Bran Stark (Core Set)
2x Catelyn Stark (Core Set)
3x Direwolf Pup (Core Set)
3x Grey Wind (Core Set)
3x Hedge Knight (The King's Peace)
3x Robb Stark (Core Set)
3x Ser Rodrik Cassel (The King's Peace)
3x Summer (Core Set)
1x Syrio Forel (The Road to Winterfell)
3x Tumblestone Knight (Core Set)
3x Vanguard of the North (Core Set)
3x Winterfell Steward (Core Set)
 
Attachment: (4)
3x Ice (Core Set)
1x Lady (Taking the Black)
 
Event: (12)
3x For the North! (Core Set)
3x Put to the Sword (Core Set)
3x The Hand’s Judgment (Core Set)
3x Winter Is Coming (Core Set)
 
Location: (8)
3x Heart Tree Grove (Core Set)
3x The Kingsroad (Core Set)
2x The Roseroad (Core Set)

 

 

Story: I got my The King's Peace pack yesterday, quickly cobbled together this deck and played against a recent Store Champ winner (so a good player) who was also at the store and wanted to play the Flavour of the Month, Tyrell Crossing. All the games ended with no opposing characters (although in one game, he did get to 14 power before I imploded him).

 

All I did was build Super-Aggro because generally, that is the archetype that beats Rush. Just because people sniff at Sneak Attack openings doesn't mean it's not effective (when did you last see A Game of Thrones in a plot deck?) and it's often brutal. Lady Sansa's Rose being on the character makes the Aggro match-up worse (maybe go Weenie Knight Swarm with Superior Claim?).

 

Confiscate will remove Mare In Heat that can hold off your Ice Wielder (you have 12 cards that can host). For the North! and Ice help buff Roderick from burn. Yes, it's only got Catelyn x2 as its only intrigue icons! It's a pure "Achieve Board Control" deck (like the old Braids or Smokestack decks in Magic) and once you have imploded them off the board, the power will follow, just like the 1E Siege of Winterfell decks.

 

I know it's a casino deck that will meet its counter decks (like Here to Serve Aemon) but anyone not too confident who is happy to roll the match-up dice and opening draw dice and play a simple deck (you rarely try to play Put to the Sword turn 1 but wait until the board is less cluttered unless an obvious opening exists - and beware Milk on Arya and Brothel Madam marshalled after you and try to cancel Growing Strong), this deck may be the answer as I suspect it's more likely to win than lose in the new meta, a good meta-call when everyone wants to play Tyrell Rush.

 

Also Roderick was amazing (and along with Tumblestone, buffs your Hedge Knights), immune to Milk from Control decks too.

 

So before you get too excited with your Tyrell/Rose Rush build, test it against this and see if it can cope (Jousting Contest x2 is your friend, as is Highgarden, although Ice can be triggered in defence).

 

I'm not saying it's tier 1 (I'm sure it can be improved), just an extreme example of an archetype you must test against in your gauntlet.



#224
Solaris

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^ Im going to have to try your deck out since Stark is my favorite faction. I enjoy my current deck but it also lost to a Targ Fealty deck so I'm looking for improvement.

Btw, would a Stark Crossing deck work? I'm thinking about building one but I'm looking for some ideas on how to build it and make it competitive against Lanni and Targ in the meta right now.

#225
sparrowhawk

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^ Im going to have to try your deck out since Stark is my favorite faction. I enjoy my current deck but it also lost to a Targ Fealty deck so I'm looking for improvement.

Btw, would a Stark Crossing deck work? I'm thinking about building one but I'm looking for some ideas on how to build it and make it competitive against Lanni and Targ in the meta right now.

 

I've made a few changes to the build to better guarantee that explosive start and to keep the pressure on.

-3 Eddard Stark (inefficient 7 for STR5 with no Fealty discount, minor hurt to Roderick and for hosting Ice)

+3 Vanguard of the North (4 for STR4, synergy with A Storm of Swords and Naval Superiority plots below)

-1 A Noble Cause (when do you play it? there is no long game, low initiative, max cost is now 5 with fealty)

+1 Naval Superiority (as military pressure tests gold flow, initiative 7 War plot, avoid overcommit to Wildfire)

 

I've edited the list above to incorporate these changes and the deck seems to play really well with them now.

 

 

As for Stark Crossing, I believe Stark cannot choose the agenda due to lack of intrigue icons in their pool and you need to attack in all 3 challenges. Hopefully the new deluxe will change this.



#226
CptPugwash

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A  Stark Crossing might work.

x2 Storm of Swords in case you can't drag out Catelyn, Sansa.or Maester Luwin.

Storm of Swords should do a trick if you have either the Vanguard or a Kennel Master out, as it should be nigh on impossible for your opponent to defend 2 Military Challenges and with a reasonable amount of luck you could get both through.. 


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#227
Skelton

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Stark Crossing made top 8 in Stoke. Losing out to Targ burn in the final match. He had terrible draws for a few turns but otherwise he may have gone undefeated.

#228
sparrowhawk

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A  Stark Crossing might work.
x2 Storm of Swords in case you can't drag out Catelyn, Sansa.or Maester Luwin.
Storm of Swords should do a trick if you have either the Vanguard or a Kennel Master out, as it should be nigh on impossible for your opponent to defend 2 Military Challenges and with a reasonable amount of luck you could get both through..


That's clever. I hadn't thought of that! Serves me right for posting in a house I rarely play. I'm gonna go back to my beloved Lannister with my tail between my legs...

Yep, Stark Crossing seems fine. Got that wrong. Would be interesting to see a list. I assume there are Little Birds as well to pad out the intrigue and protect vs Tears?

#229
Stormborn

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The Winterfell Kennel Master is great for messing up your opponents challenge maths. You are running the direwolfs anyhow. If worse comes to worse, you can always eat him with Greywind and use Robb to stand everyone.
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#230
sparrowhawk

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The Winterfell Kennel Master is great for messing up your opponents challenge maths. You are running the direwolfs anyhow. If worse comes to worse, you can always eat him with Greywind and use Robb to stand everyone.


Thanks. Yes, I can appreciate they are good, the ability was great in 1E. For a more controlly subtle build. This build is as subtle as a brick.

The concept is simply: if I can inflict 10 military claim (including 1 Marched) in the first 5 plots plus add-ons from Winter is Coming, Ice and Put to the Sword (in order of difficulty), say another 5 casualties in those 5 turns, then very few decks can survive such an onslaught (fails to Here to Serve Aemon). It really is "Route 1" Winning Ugly (opposite of my "win with flamboyance" preference of Lannister/Martell control in 1E) but it can be incredibly effective, especially in a Rush meta which has a tendency to fold to Aggro (but win vs. my beloved Control who fails to take control before they win).

There should be no stigma playing Super-Aggro as the Maesters have explained in their articles as, in its way, it is striving for the ultimate form of Control, total board presence - which is exactly what Intrigue Reset Control decks strive for. There is something incredibly satisfying in facing no characters, far more than "I got my Renown/Stealth characters and you didn't so I out-raced you for the win" (at least for my tastes, I accept others like to race).

As such, there's no need to spend 2 on Kennel Master that adds no military to your board (beyond Lady on Catelyn). It is crucial I simply can force those early military double claims with the most explosive set ups possible and the deck has been tuned to just achieve this one myopic objective. Along with "keep the squeeze on" War plot of Naval (denied income is the same as military claim when you don't pressure their hand) and the utility of Confiscation (Ice is mainly play and use unless you need temporary protection vs burn or you suspect Treachery and have no money to use the cancel in hand), the game is simply "Implode them or go home".

I think a different more subtler deck that plays Jousting Contest (Kennel Master like Jon Snow is great with it) would welcome the Kennel Masters. In Baralai's 3x Lady Bologna 38 player winning deck on ThronesDB, they ARE the deck (that is a Rush archetype, not Aggro). I believe the Kennel Masters are very good in decks built to exploit them.

Remember this is...

(A) a Gauntlet deck - when creating a gauntlet deck, you create an extreme example of an archetype with lots of redundancy because you want to encounter the card synergy and test yourself against the strategy.

(B] a good deck for someone who feels he's not as good as the best players to play in the current meta - because when the cards come out right, nobody can stop it (and it's not that high variance, the best option to take if you admit to yourself you are at a lower skill level currently).

That's not to say there is no skill because how you set up and play depends on match-up (when to expect Calm, avoid tentpoles or setting up Ice if that deck runs Filthy, play tentpoles vs Dany, keep 1 money spare vs Lion's madam - and at worst "represent" Winter or cancel Treachery Ice, expect control to Poppy Arya so don't tempo loss saving for the Sword, buff Roderick with For the North! right after declaring when facing burn, be wary of Growing Strong so overcommit, when to expect Tears and acceptable losses etc). One of the key decisions seems to be when to focus on Knights and when to focus on Wolves. There is plenty of skill in playing Super-Aggro. But it's also one of your best bets in a tournament as a skill equaliser because if you get a nuts draw, it's Goodnight Vienna, no matter the quality of the opponent. And in this Rush meta, the canny player chooses Aggro...

Anyway, thanks for feedback (didn't mean to reply at such length, boring train journey) and I look forward to plenty of cleverer builds that have Kennel Masters (like Baralai's). But clever isn't what this gauntlet deck is about, it's just about maxing on a single-minded strategy.
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#231
Nestalim

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I believe Kennel Master is better in a more midrange version of a Stark deck, as his ability gets better turns after turns. I love that card, because he made challenge phase very... Challenging.

 

When Nymeria will be out, the card will be really a thing.


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#232
CptPugwash

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So  I tried a Stark war at the crossing deck last night without much success i'm afraid. It suffers on 2 main points.

 

Firstly the plots that are best suited to this deck although having high initiative have crap economy all are either 3 or 4. You can't even run sneak attack in this deck which is a big drawback when compared to a fealty deck.

 

Secondly Bran, the steward, and the kennel master are all 1 power monocons which as well as being the least useful icon for this deck , means you can't even do a chud first attack with them. By the time you've thrown in enough intrigue icons, (none of which have a military icon) to cover all 3 challenges for the non-storm of swords turns, you're eating into the slots for the principal element of the deck which is kill.    

 

Don't get me wrong, i'm sure the deck can work really well but it is highly reliant on having a good set-up and opening draw as opposed to most decks which just don't want a bad set-up.

 

The deck desperately wants Military/Intrigue Bi-cons - hello Arbor knights for stark.  



#233
VonWibble

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I suspect you won't get those types of cards until House Bolton returns as a theme.

#234
Solaris

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I suspect you won't get those types of cards until House Bolton returns as a theme.


Will we get those traitorous Boltons in the next cycle?

#235
VonWibble

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If I were guessing, no, based on the books. I think they would appear in the 3rd cycle.

A mix of Umber, Karstark and Mormont would form more of the focus for cycle 2. Plus Osha.

Edit -maybe not Osha given she is in the Stark box!

#236
Stormborn

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You can do a challenge with a 1 str person in a LotC deck. You just won't win.

#237
sparrowhawk

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So here's the thing... Everyone is raising their curve upwards because of First Snow.

 

So who gains? Old Skool Stark Murder built to withstand First Snow and Sneak Attack first!

 

 

"Because subtle is for Martell players..."

 
House Stark
Fealty
 
Packs: From Core Set (3) to No Middle Ground
 
Plots
1x A Storm of Swords
1x Confiscation
1x Marched to the Wall
2x Sneak Attack
1x The Winds of Winter
1x Wardens of the North (No Middle Ground)
 
Characters
3x Arya Stark
3x Bran Stark
3x Catelyn Stark
3x Grey Wind
3x Robb Stark
3x Summer
3x Tumblestone Knight
3x Vanguard of the North
3x Winterfell Steward
3x Ser Rodrik Cassel (The King's Peace)
3x Hodor (No Middle Ground)
3x Wildling Scout (No Middle Ground)
 
Locations
3x The Kingsroad
3x The Roseroad
3x Heart Tree Grove
 
Attachment
3x Ice
 
Events
3x Put to the Sword
3x The Hand's Judgment
3x For the North!
3x Winter Is Coming
 
 

It's a perfectly valid meta-call deck. Obviously runs out of steam with the old curves of chuds. But nowadays...

 

And an absolutely ridiculous build of x3 every card. Though my OCD is in heaven...

 

Got to test it!



#238
Solaris

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Great idea! However, the deluxe edition will be giving Stark decks great characters who will be immune to First Snow like Blackfish. I can't wait to see how Starks will be improved after WotN.

#239
Alexfrog

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The big box has me thinking Stark Fealty will be quite strong now, with great Direwolf tricks and an excellent Eddard.  And NYMERIA.  What a beast.  Initimdate is strong, especially when you are Stark and can attack with two big guys, trigger Winterfell Castle, and give them +2 and win by a lot.  Nymeria lets you intimdate two characters per phase, its absurd. 

 

 

Stark always had a good early game, with kill potential.  If they now have a good late game too with Eddard, Robb, Nymeria, its quite scary.  They also received multiple card draw sources in Ser Roderick and The Blackfish. 

 

 

Crossing is an option too, but its hard to find Intrigue icons, and there are actually a number of good loyal characters now at cost 6, that you really want to reduce to 5 to make them much easier to play with typical plots. 



#240
stevehouston

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The big box has me thinking Stark Fealty will be quite strong now, with great Direwolf tricks and an excellent Eddard.  And NYMERIA.  What a beast.  Initimdate is strong, especially when you are Stark and can attack with two big guys, trigger Winterfell Castle, and give them +2 and win by a lot.  Nymeria lets you intimdate two characters per phase, its absurd. 

 

 

Stark always had a good early game, with kill potential.  If they now have a good late game too with Eddard, Robb, Nymeria, its quite scary.  They also received multiple card draw sources in Ser Roderick and The Blackfish. 

 

 

Crossing is an option too, but its hard to find Intrigue icons, and there are actually a number of good loyal characters now at cost 6, that you really want to reduce to 5 to make them much easier to play with typical plots. 

 

Glad to hear Stark as potentially becoming Very Scary and thereby joining the other Very Scary houses: Lanni, Bara, Greyjoy, and Targaryen.

 

I love that AGOT feeling when you see what your opponent is playing and go well this is going to suck. The game is in a good spot when over half of the factions can inspire that reaction.