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2nd Edition Tyrell Thread

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#21
Masus04

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Highgarden only works on defence.

 

Interesting question though, does Highgarden save characters from Dracarys! if I attack with them then remove them from the challenge in response to you targetting with Dracarys?  I don't know the AGOT timing rules well enough, but in Magic that would work as Dracarys targets a participating character, and they're no longer participating...

 

This would not work since highgarde is not a reaction to an event (cancel). every effect is resolved completely before the next can initiate. The exception are interrupts and reactions but those have certain triggers and can't be initiated without those triggers.

Highgarden as an (challenge) action can only be activated in action windows while it's your turn to play actions in those windows, so you would have to wait until dracaris is resolved and then activate it, therefore not being able to save your character.



#22
Masus04

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I've been tinkering with Night's Watch lately, so two printed Renown characters seems like a gold mine in comparison. :)

 

So is it worth bannering Lannister for Jaime/maybe Joffrey? Stark for Ned and Sansa?

 

Actually, Lannister could be really good, assuming an ambushed Widow's Wail will stand Randyll.

It does stand randyl as it "increases his STR" with a card effect.

 

The combination with lannister seems pretty strong both ways, it's just the focus of the deck that's changing (heavy intrigue vs balanced challenges and more str pump)



#23
ooo

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This would not work since highgarde is not a reaction to an event (cancel). every effect is resolved completely before the next can initiate. The exception are interrupts and reactions but those have certain triggers and can't be initiated without those triggers.

Highgarden as an (challenge) action can only be activated in action windows while it's your turn to play actions in those windows, so you would have to wait until dracaris is resolved and then activate it, therefore not being able to save your character.

Yeah I'm learning the timing is a bit different different to Magic.

Actions are like Sorceries in Magic whereas because they were happening outside Marshalling I was thinking of them as Instants.  You can initiate a stack with an Action but not respond to one.  Interrupts and Reactions can respond.

 

Right?



#24
widowmaker93

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Yeah I'm learning the timing is a bit different different to Magic.
Actions are like Sorceries in Magic whereas because they were happening outside Marshalling I was thinking of them as Instants.  You can initiate a stack with an Action but not respond to one.  Interrupts and Reactions can respond.
 
Right?


Correct. An Action is not something you can respond to another Action with. An action must fully resolve before another action can be triggered. It behaves much like a Sorcery in MTG. Interrupts and Reactions are your Instants. You can respond to Actions with them or other Interrupts and Reactions, among other things.
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#25
JTG81

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Yeah I'm learning the timing is a bit different different to Magic.

Actions are like Sorceries in Magic whereas because they were happening outside Marshalling I was thinking of them as Instants.  You can initiate a stack with an Action but not respond to one.  Interrupts and Reactions can respond.

 

Right?

 

Actions can only be taken during action windows provided in the timing chart. If the action states something like "Marshalling action" for example, it can only be done during the marshalling phase. Interrupts and reactions can be done at any time without the need for an action window. A reaction has to meet a trigger, for example when Queen of thorns wins an intrigue challenge her reaction occurs after the completion of step 4.2.2 during the challenges phase because reaction have to let the the triggering event to fully resolve before they can be taken. Interrupts work similarly to reaction in that they require a trigger except that they interrupt the trigger and can be taken before the triggering event fully resolves. Therefor a strong counter to Dracarys is The hands Judgement which interrupts and cancels the effects of an event played.



#26
JTG81

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Yeah I'm learning the timing is a bit different different to Magic.

Actions are like Sorceries in Magic whereas because they were happening outside Marshalling I was thinking of them as Instants.  You can initiate a stack with an Action but not respond to one.  Interrupts and Reactions can respond.

 

Right?

 

double post



#27
Masus04

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Thinking in MTG terms is probably not the besteht way to try and u der stand aGoT because the turn structure is a lot mkre complex with bith players alternativ in each phase. Your MTG Main phase is basically split up in at least one action window per phase, but most effects only trigger in the challenges phase, which is the "Main" (meaning most important) Phase of aGoT.
That is one of the most valuable parts of aGoT, the structure of the game makes it so much more diverse than other, older card games

#28
Barnie25

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Thinking in MTG terms is probably not the besteht way to try and u der stand aGoT because the turn structure is a lot mkre complex with bith players alternativ in each phase. Your MTG Main phase is basically split up in at least one action window per phase, but most effects only trigger in the challenges phase, which is the "Main" (meaning most important) Phase of aGoT.
That is one of the most valuable parts of aGoT, the structure of the game makes it so much more diverse than other, older card games


Care to back up your statement to what makes aGoT a better game in your mind? Seems a pretty strong and subjective statement.

#29
Masus04

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Not better, just more complex, more varied, which imo is a good thing, but that's highly subjective. I've plaid MTG, Yu-Gi-Oh etc, and they are all pretty similar. What makes aGoT different to me is that it relies on 6 phases instead of basically 2, even though only 3 are really interesting. Plots are a big thing here. I guess i just like the complexity, it makes you feel you have more possibilities.

Anyway, that's not the point of this thread

#30
JTG81

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So who is our best banner faction. Currently, I am bannered with Baratheon and I'm not liking it to much. I'm thinking I could switch it up and was wondering what other people are using.

#31
ojimijam

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I really like the lannister banner. More gold from tyrion, an extra stand on randyll from widows wail and some real rush potential with jaime. I think there cold be something with GJ just to push as many challenges through as possible with some high claim and just beat stuff into submission, not sure its any better than just playing GJ though...



#32
michaelius

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So who is our best banner faction. Currently, I am bannered with Baratheon and I'm not liking it to much. I'm thinking I could switch it up and was wondering what other people are using.

 

Try banner of the watch :)

 

3x John Snow, 3 x Longclaw and you have faster power rush in core set.


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#33
Barnie25

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I think that Lannister is probably the most obvious Banner as Ojimijam pointed out but I think the question is what are you trying to do with your deck? With Lannister you build a deck that has great late game potential and can really bully someone into submission with strong characters. But other more subtile combinations are also strong such as Barathion for more kneel or Greyjoy and Stark for rush.

 

Right now I would say that I like Lannister best but I am also willing to try a Stark banner for more standing in Eddard, stealth with Aria and safety with Bran.



#34
JTG81

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I want to try Targ as the strength buffs plus lowering strength seems pretty good but most of those burn cards are loyal it seems.

#35
sparrowhawk

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Still no deck lists on this House thread - so I'm going to make up for it big time with this 1 big post...

 

Tyrell, like Lannister, are a very good banner faction - either in a MIL/POW build due to the non-loyal renown of Loras and Randyll (where you can protect all your MIL/POW renown dudes with bodyguards and little birds) or in a Intrigue build like the Lannister Hand Kill Varys Reset archetype I attempted elsewhere that simply uses them as cheap claim (3 Gardeners, 3 Courtesans, Left, Right) and intrigue synergy augmenters (3 Informants, Margaery).

 

To me, in Core Set, there are 3 reasons to choose Tyrell as your main faction:

 

> Olenna's Cunning is the game's only tutor (of sorts), giving you 6 chances to draw...

> Mander which is a very good card draw, the +5 especially easy to get in defence with...

> Highgarden, the card that screams 2x Jousting Contest (echoing Loras' Joust ability).

 

---

 

And so, probably like everyone, I first went about creating "baseline" Fealty decks (for every House) to then try to improve upon with Banners. This was my initial (flawed) Fealty build...

 

Faction: Tyrell
 
Agenda: (1)
1x Fealty (Core Set)
 
Plot: (7)
1x A Game of Thrones (Core Set)
1x A Noble Cause (Core Set)
1x Calm Over Westeros (Core Set)
1x Confiscation (Core Set)
2x Jousting Contest (Core Set)
1x The Winds of Winter (Core Set)
 
Character: (30)
3x Courtesan of the Rose (Core Set)
3x Garden Caretaker (Core Set)
1x Left (Core Set)
1x Littlefinger (Core Set)
1x Maester Lomys (Core Set)
3x Margaery Tyrell (Core Set)
3x Olenna’s Informant (Core Set)
2x Paxter Redwyne (Core Set)
3x Randyll Tarly (Core Set)
1x Right (Core Set)
3x The Knight of Flowers (Core Set)
3x The Queen of Thorns (Core Set)
3x Wardens of the Reach (Core Set)
 
Attachment: (6)
3x Bodyguard (Core Set)
1x Heartsbane (Core Set)
2x Milk of the Poppy (Core Set)
 
Event: (9)
3x Growing Strong (Core Set)
3x Olenna’s Cunning (Core Set)
3x Tears of Lys (Core Set)
 
Location: (15)
3x Highgarden (Core Set)
3x Rose Garden (Core Set)
3x The Kingsroad (Core Set)
3x The Mander (Core Set)
3x The Roseroad (Core Set)

 

The first thing you notice when playing Fealty is that Tyrell lack the depth of characters - they even have to play their armies (which aren't that bad as there are 9 Reach draws, can be as high as 8 STR vs. Martell long game - alas they game end with Intrigue).

 

Depending on set up and match-up, A Game of Thrones or Calm over Westeros are often first plots, although having Olenna for A Noble Cause (and ideally bodyguard) is a potential explosive opening - a nice play is to trigger her to bring Paxton then play Tears of Lys with no gold. Winds of Winter is to leverage Informants. Whilst the Fealty makes Olenna and Paxton ok cost, they are too expensive with Banners.

 

But overall, Fealty just felt bad for this House because of the need for low cost character depth in an aggro meta (especially as their motto has no loyal discount). Fealty is not recommended (in this case) - at least until the pool deepens when it could be quite decent.

 

---

 

My next attempt was the obvious choice when you have a crucial 2 cost event - everyone's favourite dwarf (and 9 other cards). I inserted the usual 12 Lannister module and tweaked the build accordingly...

 

Faction: Tyrell
 
Agenda: (1)
1x Banner of the Lion (Core Set)
 
Plot: (7)
1x A Noble Cause (Core Set)
1x Calm Over Westeros (Core Set)
1x Confiscation (Core Set)
1x Filthy Accusations (Core Set)
2x Jousting Contest (Core Set)
1x Marched to the Wall (Core Set)
 
Character: (30)
3x Courtesan of the Rose (Core Set)
3x Garden Caretaker (Core Set)
1x Joffrey Baratheon (Core Set)
3x Lannisport Merchant (Core Set)
1x Left (Core Set)
1x Littlefinger (Core Set)
3x Margaery Tyrell (Core Set)
3x Randyll Tarly (Core Set)
1x Right (Core Set)
3x Ser Jaime Lannister (Core Set)
3x The Knight of Flowers (Core Set)
1x The Tickler (Core Set)
3x Tyrion Lannister (Core Set)
1x Wildling Horde (Core Set)
 
Attachment: (8)
3x Bodyguard (Core Set)
1x Heartsbane (Core Set)
3x Milk of the Poppy (Core Set)
1x Widow’s Wail (Core Set)
 
Event: (7)
3x Growing Strong (Core Set)
3x Olenna’s Cunning (Core Set)
1x Tears of Lys (Core Set)
 
Location: (15)
3x Highgarden (Core Set)
3x Rose Garden (Core Set)
3x The Kingsroad (Core Set)
3x The Mander (Core Set)
3x The Roseroad (Core Set)
 

Marched to the Wall is there just as a possible cheap shot opener (replacing A Game of Thrones as now weaker intrigue vs Fealty). Without Informant, I swapped Winds of Winter for the spot control (and +1 gold) of Filthy Accusations. Despite my dislike of economy "no other effect" plots. there were plenty of Nobles to justify the fast-deploy benefit of A Noble Cause.

 

The only problem I had with the build (like with so many Banner Lion builds) is it felt rather obvious. There was also a vulnerability to Wildfire Assault killing uniques as so many are duped in this "no mid cost" build (treat bodyguards as 1 cost claim). The challenge control was strong and I toyed with the idea of Seal of the Hand but I think the abundance of Confiscate in the meta put me off. Probably a mistake skipping it.

 

---

 

And so, in my quest to explore the old 1.0 archetypes (like Lannister Reset Control), I tried something different and attempted Rush. Now both Control and Rush require card pool depth (variants of Aggro is the default in a small pool). But I felt that the tutor ability of Cunning to find missing pieces like Longclaw or Heartsbane or rush Locations was worth exploring.

 

This time I went for 3 characters who accrue Renown (Loras, Randyll + Jon with Longclaw ideally) who are all great with Jousting Contest. These were the only dupes - the rest were non-duped add to board presence (with NW undercosted characters). Wildfire may be right after discarding a (knelt) Builder to stand Highgarden during a Jousting Contest (or to stand Mander, Wall or Castle Black), kill Benjen etc. Its high strength-to-cost characters (and 1x Iron Throne) seem suited to test A Feast for Crows as a finisher (4 reserve), especially combined with a Cunning to find your 1x Superior Claim (using NW Power > cost characters).

 

Faction: Tyrell
 
Agenda: (1)
1x Banner of the Watch (Core Set)
 
Plot: (7)
1x A Feast for Crows (Core Set)
1x Calm Over Westeros (Core Set)
1x Confiscation (Core Set)
1x Filthy Accusations (Core Set)
2x Jousting Contest (Core Set)
1x Wildfire Assault (Core Set)
 
Character: (33)
1x Benjen Stark (Core Set)
3x Courtesan of the Rose (Core Set)
3x Garden Caretaker (Core Set)
1x Ghost (Core Set)
3x Jon Snow (Core Set)
1x Left (Core Set)
1x Littlefinger (Core Set)
1x Maester Aemon (Core Set)
1x Margaery Tyrell (Core Set)
3x Randyll Tarly (Core Set)
3x Ranging Party (Core Set)
1x Right (Core Set)
1x Ser Waymar Royce (Core Set)
3x Steward at the Wall (Core Set)
3x The Knight of Flowers (Core Set)
3x Veteran Builder (Core Set)
1x Wildling Horde (Core Set)
 
Attachment: (5)
1x Heartsbane (Core Set)
1x Longclaw (Core Set)
3x Milk of the Poppy (Core Set)
 
Event: (4)
3x Olenna’s Cunning (Core Set)
1x Superior Claim (Core Set)
 
Location: (18)
1x Castle Black (Core Set)
3x Highgarden (Core Set)
3x Rose Garden (Core Set)
1x The Iron Throne (Core Set)
3x The Kingsroad (Core Set)
3x The Mander (Core Set)
3x The Roseroad (Core Set)
1x The Wall (Core Set)
 
Now sadly, this abomination is not as consistent as the duller Banner Lion build with Tyrion. It's just listed as something different (Jon feels so good Jousting and you find Longclaw with Cunning). The economy is sadly far too shaky. But I include it simply as my first attempt at Rush to help incite ideas in others (as I don't think I've seen Banner Watch).
 
 
(For all builds) Props to: Istaril on Beyond the Wall (Highgarden + Jousing Contest), JCWamma (Jousting Contest + Highgarden + Mander on defence)
 
 
As always, feedback welcome (alternative builds listed/explained even more welcome). And still no Targaryen, Lannister or Night's Watch threads...

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#36
Barnie25

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Ok so I will also contribute to this tread after having testing the Tyrells quite a bit
 
My list is as follows and may contain some different choices that differ from others:
 
 
 
 
Total Cards: (60)
 
Faction: 
 Tyrell
 
 
Agenda: (1)
1x Banner of the Lion (Core Set)
 
Plot: (7)
1x A Noble Cause (Core Set)
1x Confiscation (Core Set)
1x Filthy Accusations (Core Set)
1x Wildfire Assault (Core Set)
1x Jousting Contest (Core Set)
1x The Winds of Winter (Core Set)
1x A Feast for Crows (Core Set)
 
Character: (31)
2x Courtesan of the Rose (Core Set)
3x Garden Caretaker (Core Set)
2x Lannisport Merchant (Core Set)
2x Left (Core Set)
1x Littlefinger (Core Set)
3x Margaery Tyrell (Core Set)
2x Paxter Redwyne (Core Set)
3x Randyll Tarly (Core Set)
1x Rattleshirt’s Raiders (Core Set)
2x Right (Core Set)
2x Ser Jaime Lannister (Core Set)
2x The Knight of Flowers (Core Set)
3x Tyrion Lannister (Core Set)
1x Wardens of the Reach (Core Set)
1x Olenna’s Informant (Core Set)
1x The Queen of Thorns (Core Set)
 
Attachment: (7)
2x Bodyguard (Core Set)
1x Heartsbane (Core Set)
2x Milk of the Poppy (Core Set)
2x Widow’s Wail (Core Set)
 
Event: (7)
2x Olenna’s Cunning (Core Set)
1x Put to the Sword (Core Set)
2x Treachery (Core Set)
1x Growing Strong (Core Set)
1x Tears of Lys (Core Set)
 
Location: (15)
3x Highgarden (Core Set)
2x Rose Garden (Core Set)
3x The Kingsroad (Core Set)
3x The Mander (Core Set)
3x The Roseroad (Core Set)
1x Western Fiefdom (Core Set)
 
 
 
Out of the Lion banner we get, in my mind, four really strong elements to add to our faction.
 
-Tyrion
He is probably the best character in the core set being extremely efficient and deadly. He allows us to play strong events while spending our initial income on characters.
 
-Jaime
` A big intrigue hitter and our secondary main hitter after Tarly, his ability to stand while attacking with renown makes him a strong addition to our roster.
 
-The Willows Wail
This little bugger serves his main purpose as a way to untap Tarly in a pinch but forcing through a smaller character while having big hitters on standby for later challenges can give your opponents quite some headaches, especially when combined with a two claim plot.
 
-Treachery
This card is really good, it gives us a cancel that can help us pull out unfavorable situations or ensure a strong attack not being thwarted.
 
 
The 'odd' choices
 
-Queen of Thorns
I run a single copy of the Queen of Thorns because she gives me the ability to overcome some of the 'dead dupes' threats while being able to strongly impact a game where you draw her at the right time.
 
-Put to the Sword
Together with the Tears of Lys, this gives me the ability to get rid of power characters such as Danny and such, I used to run two copies and no tears, I still don't know which is correct.
 
- A single Growing Strong
I am not a big fan of the card, why? In a Tyrell NA this card can shine both on offense and defense but in this deck the Willow's wail is just better as it provides permanent buffs to not only Tyrell but to any character.
 
- The Winds of Winter
I know a lot of people don't like this card but I have been winnnig most of my games on the back of this card. I play this card in all my decks that can hit hard on multiple fronts. Imagine a board state where both you and your opponent understand that he will play wildfire, say its plot 4. For this deck its not terribly difficult to power through two challenges in a single turn. He plays wildfire and marshalls a character, we do the same. If you can get a Militairy and Intrigue challenge in he will lose 50% of his board and a substantial part of his hand. This card has never let me down. Play his card when you expect your opponent to go for a high initiative plot and unoppose all but militairy challenges and hit back with impunity.
 
I have been fairly impressed with the deck, it has really strong setup potential. A lot of decks have trouble handling Tarly and Jaime together on the first plot, the will bully your opponent into submission or force them to handle with them while you build your board. It has less explosive power as say Greyjoy or Stark Kill but it has a strong midgame with lot of power characters.
 
Just my 2cts

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#37
Barnie25

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Nobody interested in Tyrell? I understand sadly. I was running them with good success when I first started out but now that I seem to have lost faith in them. Olenna is utterly crippled by Milk, Tarly will get Milked or Kneeled in most games and even though Left and Right are decent I would wish they were just generic bicons.

#38
Vanzig

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Nobody interested in Tyrell? I understand sadly. I was running them with good success when I first started out but now that I seem to have lost faith in them. Olenna is utterly crippled by Milk, Tarly will get Milked or Kneeled in most games and even though Left and Right are decent I would wish they were just generic bicons.

http://www.cardgamed...inations/page-2
My opinions on this are in another thread, I'm not sure which is more PC, pasting a link to the threads or copy-pasting the whole rant.

The tl;dr is "Tyrell fealty is subpar and is waiting on some chapter packs to be viable.
- It's not good enough to have only 2 unique combat characters with more than 2str. Particularly when dead pile exists and things like Heads on Spikes.
- Grandma Tyrell is excessively vulnerable to milk unlike a 6str tricon like Tywin or Euron.
- Left+Right are excessively vulnerable to wildfire assault because they take extra space to pretend to be one mid-size character but taking 2 board spaces up.

Tyrell-fealty Could become quite competitive with extra chapter packs, I don't think it currently is.



#39
ingsve

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One of my biggest problem with Tyrell Fealty is that they lack offensive utility. Their main mechanics are strength boosts which helps them win challenges but it doesn't really mess with the opponent that much. The only real exception to that is Olenna's Informant who grants an additional challenge so that could be devastating with the right setup.

 

I guess the point might be that since Tyrell has the STR boost they have an easier time utilizing PTTS and PTTT but then you have to worry about fitting things into the 15 neutral slots. So I wouldn't be surprised if Tyrell lags behind for a while until they can get a few more mechanics to help on offence.



#40
szczudel

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I call it "nasty cards" factor. Tyrells, except Higharden, do not have such. They can pump and win challenges thus It is not so difficult for them to trigger Put to the Sword/Torch. However since this is not they core mechanic it forces you out of playing Fealty.

They most nasty card is Olenna's Informant - she can devastate enemy, but to use it effectively - a nice, medium gold double claim plot should be available. Winter is coming is something that feels like win-more plot. When you have all your pieces on board you can finish the enemy off it is rather hard to throw it and at the same time put in play Tarly and his sword.

 

I enjoy playing Tyrells but have impression they are not as powerful as factions that have strong "nasty cards" factor. Basically I put them higher only on NW.