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2nd Edition Baratheon Thread

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#1
Staton

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*sigh* Fine. I'll do it. We're awesome. We're the best. I mean our Faction symbol has a crown on it! We literally start the game being the King. It doesn't really get much better than that.

 
 
Total Cards: (60)
 
Faction: 
Baratheon
 
 
Agenda: (1)
 
Plot: (7)
 
Character: (31)
 
Attachment: (8)
 
Event: (9)
 
Location: (12)

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#2
sparrowhawk

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Show us your deck!!!



#3
Staton

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Show us your deck!!!

 

Edited. You could take out Calm Over Westeros for Heads on Pikes. I think that's just a preference choice.



#4
Wosho

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Why would You want to have HoP in control deck?



#5
scantrell24

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*Spikes
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#6
Staton

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Why would You want to have HoP in control deck?

 

Just because it's a really powerful card. The game is somewhat won or lost right now on really powerful unique characters. Having the chance to kill that character before it even hits the board is crazy strong. Plus, it has really good stats.



#7
Wosho

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I prefer plots that have an impact on board like Filthy Accusations.



#8
Staton

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Edited. You could take out Calm Over Westeros for Heads on Pikes. I think that's just a preference choice.

 

I prefer plots that have an impact on board like Filthy Accusations.

 

Sweet deal.



#9
sparrowhawk

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Looks good!

 

 

All Fealty are almost identical, mine posted here...

 

http://www.cardgamed...theon-analysis/

 

But there are differences.

 

 

Main positive:

I like that you have given up on Table and Throne and just let Followers be Stannis unlockers.

I am starting to suspect Table and Throne are for the Watch defence deck.

 

Other big difference:

Vanguard Lancers are awful but I now feel a necessary evil in Fealty to survive an Aggro onslaught.

In the same vein, Calm over Westeros is essential (I feel) - so please keep it over Heads on Spikes!

 

 

I am happy to move towards your build on those areas (2 less locations means 2 more characters).

Here's where I would like to argue that you move towards my build...

 

-1 Lightbringer

+1 Seal of the Hand

 

Yeah. Lightbringer is nice 1 cost repeatable kneel on claim soak in Fealty (with Mel in play).

Seal feels obvious (ideally Robert), especially since you should bait his Confiscate with a Milk,

Unique attachments = 1x in my books unless you have a very good reason (e.g. disposable).

 

-1 A Noble Cause

+1 Filthy Accusations

 

Fealty is enough economy for high end surely?

I don't like the low initiative either (Robert likes to go first).

Many decks run 2x Accusations and you play Stannis.

 

-1 Counting Coppers

+1 Summons

 

The deck needs Stannis and Mel before R'hllor.

Card draw is great but targeted card draw may be better here?

 

 

Robert likes to go first which means Stannis gets Milk to escape soft lock.

Cressen is pretty crucial Marshall action removal of Milk on your soft lock.

That's why I run x3, especially in the current meta with so many free kills.

 

 

Have you considered running without Wildfire? Maybe Calling The Banners for initiative + money? Or Power Behind The Throne for double Renown Intimidate? I haven't dared go without the safety net but I am unsure that it helps. If Aggro implodes you at the start, Wildfire isn't going to help. And whilst I appreciate a smaller board means more kneel impact, it also means GJ has better stealth, Targ burn has more impact on fewer targets, Lannister has Joffrey, Watch have Benjen, I just don't see it that effective (here anyway). I wonder if anyone else has played Bara without Wildfire? Be good to hear what the results were like.

 

 

Overall, consensus seems to be Core Bara Fealty is a Tier 1 deck (along with Targ and GJ in my opinion) and just goes to show that even fans of The Gentleman Bastards build great decks. Even if they seem to be married to Fealty...



#10
Gamaran

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Cant believe you arent running CotPT, steal 1 power and gain 2 per round makes it really hard for you to lose the game when you add to it the Iron Throne. I would cut a Littlefinger, a Boduguard and a Stannis (Stannis is a great support character for your other big guys, but doesnt provide enough control on his own to warrant a x3, especially since you arent running max Lightbringer).

 

I personally would also cut a Cressen, since you already have a Confiscation to remove on demand.

 

Also a Calling the Banners works better for me than Counting Coppers, with the Red Keep as long as you have the money you can reliably draw your cards if you have x3 Red Keep's. Also Summons sometimes works better since 3 cards and low gold might not really give you what you want, but Summons lets you tutor for Stannis or Meli if you have Robert on the board or Viceversa.

 

This is more of a taste thing, but im straying away from Wildfire, if the deck is doing good, i dont want to clear the board since Stannis and Robert have the board on lockdown, and if the deck is doing bad and you cant close, you often end up Wildfiring yourself.

 

With x2 Filth, instead of x2 Noble you could secure board control and slow down all the rush decks that can give Bara a hard time before they set up shop. I rarely find myself not being able to marshal a big guy i need.



#11
darkbladecb

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Have you considered running without Wildfire? Maybe Calling The Banners for initiative + money? Or Power Behind The Throne for double Renown Intimidate? I haven't dared go without the safety net but I am unsure that it helps. If Aggro implodes you at the start, Wildfire isn't going to help. And whilst I appreciate a smaller board means more kneel impact, it also means GJ has better stealth, Targ burn has more impact on fewer targets, Lannister has Joffrey, Watch have Benjen, I just don't see it that effective (here anyway). I wonder if anyone else has played Bara without Wildfire? Be good to hear what the results were like.

 

I am currently running Filthy x2, Counting Coppers, Summons, Wildfire, Confiscation, and A Noble Cause. I'm very tempted now to drop Wildfire and try Calm Over Westeros. The main plus of Wildfire, in my mind, is for if you have Robert out with either Lightbringer or Seal and can use it to limit the board, go first, and then kneel away. By the same notion, Stannis is essentially a Wildfire a turn by himself, so if he is in play, then Wildfire loses its impact. I can argue it both ways, and it's definitely something I need to test. Wildfire seems the most expendable plot, as I've been convinced by your pro-Calm argument.

 

I personally don't like the Painted Table mini-module in Fealty, simply because to make it work requires taking up one, maybe even two of my neutral Fealty slots for the Throne. With income, Milk, Bodyguard, and Littlefinger already taking up 13 to 14 of those, I personally prefer the second standing effect from Seal for consistency over the potential to get a two-card combo for maybe getting some extra power during dominance. It may be in the long term that this deck isn't claiming enough power and adding the Throne and the Table will be a way to do that, but I've not experienced that so far, so I'm not overly concerned. Seal and Lightbringer serve the same purpose, too (helping claim extra power), and I'd rather do it via additional challenges than passively through dominance. (Another quirky note: if you are winning and kneeling your opponent out, and they're not winning challenges, giving them dominance is a cheeky way to get a power to steal from them every turn.)



#12
Vanzig

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Too many games are lost if you don't have wildfire in your deck and stannis gets buried in your 60 cards. I will never leave wildfire out of any deck in core.



#13
ooo

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Too many games are lost if you don't have wildfire in your deck and stannis gets buried in your 60 cards. I will never leave wildfire out of any deck in core.

 

Basically this.



#14
szczudel

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Just because it's a really powerful card. The game is somewhat won or lost right now on really powerful unique characters. Having the chance to kill that character before it even hits the board is crazy strong. Plus, it has really good stats.

Keep thinking that way :) Especially in the first round so that it is easier to choke-rape you with Naval Superiority. 



#15
Staton

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Keep thinking that way :) Especially in the first round so that it is easier to choke-rape you with Naval Superiority. 

 

lol k.



#16
sparrowhawk

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Too many games are lost if you don't have wildfire in your deck and stannis gets buried in your 60 cards. I will never leave wildfire out of any deck in core.

 

Sorry Vanzig, but I respectfully have to disagree. It all depends on what deck you are playing (and sometimes even your confidence level, accepting that putting aside 1 plot for a safety net that may hurt you may win you 5% of games you would otherwise lose - but the alternate plot would win you a higher % of games you would otherwise lose).

 

Wildfire was never a great reset in 1.0 and with the changes in 2.0 (more costly units, reserve stuffs "wait for overcommit" game, intrigue weakened, attachments bounce), it's actually even worse. But it does allow for a "3 major characters at x3 with bodyguards" approach, The Three Towers build as I'm calling it. This was what underpinned Draft in 1.0 that also had Wildfire as default reset: you drafted around getting maximum use (non-kneeling and/or stand) out of 3 great characters that you upgrade with attachments (as targeted kill is rarer in a limited format).

 

I believe some decks need Wildfire (Lannister and Martell come to mind), even at x2. It helps some aggro builds like Greyjoy who love a smaller board (more stealth efficacy and unopposed) and the initiative is nice. Tyrell Jousting Contest builds can also gain from it - less characters means more efficacy for Highgarden. Although Jousting Contest is already punishing the swarm build so is it really needed (when Loras works fine in a crowd)?

 

Targ Fealty wants an ideal board of Dany + 3 Dragons + Drogo. Targ Lion adds even more combos in Drogo + Jaime, Illyrio + Tyrion. Targ has no draw outside 1 Insight, instead makes the game smaller with Plaza and undercosted military dudes (Jorah, Screamers) and burn. Why self-abuse with Wildfire? Yes, you have Fire and Blood to get back dead dragons. But does Wildfire get you back in the game?

 

Stark Fealty Murder plays 3x Ice, 3x For The North!, 3x Put to the Sword (use Ice +2 first for event), Winter is Coming (free) to do possible 5 kills in 1 attack. Having cleared his board, with your lack of intrigue to hit his hand and poor transparent plans card draw, why self-abuse with Wildfire?

 

Night's Watch All-Out Defence - here's an example of the strategy:

http://www.cardgamed...the-wall/page-2

It summons Aemon to instantly blunt Military attacks (and Ravens + Hunter to cycle immune Intrigue). This build of Night's Watch don't want a smaller board. It has too many moving parts already. A smaller board means more chance for stealth and unopposed. So just as Greyjoy can benefit, Night's Watch lose out from Wildfire.

 

In case this sounds clear cut, it all depends on the build. And your confidence to go without a partial reset that actually doesn't claw you back into the game if you have been imploded by hyper-aggro. What it does do in Intrigue strong builds is give the opponent "nowhere to hide" with his cards. Keep them in hand and they are intrigued away. Play them and you over-commit into Wildfire. As per the Lannister build in the thread where Magicdave asks for a Lannister gauntlet deck. That (and delay tactics of intrigue-strong Martel who may play x2 even) makes perfect synergetic sense to me.

 

Because I play a lot of Fealty Aggro (Wildfire usually bad, Fealty has more than 3 uniques duped, Aggro does not need a partial reset), I am personally moving away from Wildfire except if patently a benefit (Lannister, Martell). But I appreciate others would prefer to play this Plot (that the opponent will probably have as well, if you survive until turn 7). Personally, all it seems to do is punish an over-commit, it does not help me come back from a "nuts start" implosion. And if my opponent voluntarily over-commits, I guess I am confident enough to feel that I should be able to beat such an opponent without it. In many decks outside of Lannister or Martell, it seems to only punish poor play.

 

Now in my Bara Fealty deck that I linked in post #9 above, I do play Wildfire. Because sometimes you don't have Cressen (I play x3) to remove the Milk on Stannis and the enemy Horde will stand. Classic force the overcommit with entangling soft control then reset keeping your 3 key pieces.

 

However, purely as an example, here's a variant (being tested) where maybe Wildfire is possibly not needed. I will first list the changes...

 

-1 Wildfire Assault

+1 Calling The Banners

 

Your opening is often Calm over Westeros > Noble Cause > Calling The Banners. Summons and Confiscate are utility, 2x Filthy Accusations is after Stannis is in play.

 

-1 Painted Table

-1 Iron Throne

-2 Selyse Baratheon (she's not worth a bodyguard so dies with all dupes to Plaza)

 

+3 King's Hunting Party

+1 Rattleshirt's Raiders

 

Yes, I am testing the much-maligned Hunting Party. The thing is it defends against so many military attacks. And Fealty's 1 cost Ours is the Fury means it can help against any attack. The higher cost curve obviously requires Calling the Banners. It helps with Robert's Intimidate, it thwarts all these Put to the Sword and Dracarys you meet. The meta seems all about military. They are amazing in the mirror so that's 3 match-ups where they help (vs Bara, Stark and Targ). And whilst Greyjoy can stealth them, that's one other character not stealthed. Opening Calm (Military) then 2 economy plots to help set up, instead of being bullied by Aggro until you soft lock, why not just stall and resist them with these big dudes who help with board control? I'm testing them now (although I recently dismissed them in the Greyjoy thread, I feel Ours is the Fury gives them the edge in the very small choice Bara Fealty pool). For those who point at the bible CGDB card reviews, I only have 3 words to say: "Much And More"...

 

So taking on board Staton's idea of ignoring Throne & Table, I've deviated from what I felt was a pretty obvious standard Fealty build (that I posted in the post #9 link above) and I'm testing if Fealty and 2x economy plots can support this build...

 

Faction: Baratheon
 
Agenda: (1)
1x Fealty (Core Set)
 
Plot: (7)
1x A Noble Cause (Core Set)
1x Calling the Banners (Core Set)
1x Calm Over Westeros (Core Set)
1x Confiscation (Core Set)
2x Filthy Accusations (Core Set)
1x Summons (Core Set)
 
Character: (31)
3x Bastard in Hiding (Core Set)
3x Dragonstone Faithful (Core Set)
3x Fiery Followers (Core Set)
3x King’s Hunting Party (Core Set)
1x Littlefinger (Core Set)
3x Maester Cressen (Core Set)
3x Melisandre (Core Set)
1x Rattleshirt’s Raiders (Core Set)
3x Robert Baratheon (Core Set)
1x Selyse Baratheon (Core Set)
3x Ser Davos Seaworth (Core Set)
1x Shireen Baratheon (Core Set)
3x Stannis Baratheon (Core Set)
 
Attachment: (8)
3x Bodyguard (Core Set)
1x Lightbringer (Core Set)
3x Milk of the Poppy (Core Set)
1x Seal of the Hand (Core Set)
 
Event: (9)
3x Consolidation of Power (Core Set)
3x Ours is the Fury (Core Set)
3x Seen In Flames (Core Set)
 
Location: (12)
3x Dragonstone Port (Core Set)
3x The Kingsroad (Core Set)
3x The Red Keep (Core Set)
3x The Roseroad (Core Set)
 

One problem I see from removing Throne + Table is the Night's Watch All-Out Defence (like I linked in this post) may actually generate insurmountable Power gain (tempting Take the Black may be a save gold trap for your Seen in Flames). You would win the battles and lose the war. However, as I feel Hyper-Aggro are the most dangerous builds and therefore should be prevalent in the meta (unlike Night's Watch All-Out Defence), there is a meta-logic in testing a more Aggro-resilient version of Bara Fealty. That's the theory anyway (as unlike my prior successful Bara Fealty list, this hasn't been tested yet). I listed it just as an example of how a House build that normally has Wildfire could possibly skip it with a few deck tweaks. 

 

I predict that it won't be long before people start realising that Wildfire (in Core pool) is for certain builds only, certainly not all builds. It won't get you back in the game after an unfortunate Hyper-Aggro implosion, just punish a foolish over-commit. Against that opponent who is unnecessarily punished by it, you should be winning those games anyway.



#17
ojimijam

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Here is my favourite deck at the moment, Sparrow mentioned it somewhere above so i thought i would share it.
 
Total Cards: (60)
 
Faction: 
Baratheon
 
 
Agenda: (1)
 
Plot: (7)
 
Character: (30)
 
Attachment: (3)
 
Event: (12)
 
Location: (15)
 
The core of this deck is kneel with melisandre and plots, then keeping the board knelt and controlled with stannis and icon strip. Its a pretty slow deck (I havent won a game without an opponents gg in <7 plots) but once it gets going it can be pretty hard to deal with. Time to explain the deck and how i think it might be improved.
 
Plots:
Noble cause is the normal opening for the economy and getting down our guys. Vs stark or GJ where we expect sneak attack just open game of thrones. If naval superiority first turn is popular in your meta you can open calm over westeros. Summons is to find mel/stannis. Filthy is for the kneel, and confiscation the spot control (running multiples of cressen seems kind of grim to me). No wildfire because it hurts this deck and we regularly run so long that you have to play it. If the stall plots dont work and you get overrun then wildfire wont save you.
 
Characters:
Mel and stan x3 because they win it all. Big bob only needs to be at 2 imo, He is more there as a finisher/bonus than the main focus. Arriane/davos is a great way of keeping regular stand on the table. The unsung hero of this deck is caleotte, always happy to draw him, he just makes it so awkward for opponents.
 
Attachments:
Milk is great, lightbringer is a kneel and speeds up the games a bit. Seal of the hand is expensive. but if you REALLY wanted one why not.
 
Events:
We have the kneel and icon strip package (great control, confinement is genuinely excellent) and seen in the flames is soooo good. Tears of lys is for some spot control and works well against some cards that cause the decks issues (GJ and randyll). Hands judgement could maybe be cut, but with seen in the flames helping us know what they have we know what we need to cancel when, good when you know they can get the big mil challenge through but need to save stan or mel.
 
Locations:
Red keep is stellar, economy and the power gain module will eventually grind us a win.
 
Playing this deck takes patience, its about slowing the game down, concentrating on which targets to control and attacking their hand when you have the chance. Ive played it a bunch of times, its obviously vulnerable against an early GJ beatdown but honestly who isnt, and it can defend relatively well if we draw evenly. Targ is a pretty good matchup, we can keep dany pretty well controlled and our key characters dont challenge very often to be vulnerable to dracarys (which we can cancel, discard or keep the dragons knelt anyway).
 
Any questions i would be happy to answer. 

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#18
agktmte

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I've been theorizing about using a really low curve swarm deck. So here is a deck list that utilizes this strategy and design.

 

It is a Baratheon Banner of the Kraken deck playing a really low character cost curve and relying on The Red Keep and Counting Coppers to reload. I went 4-1 at my LGS (Covenant Store) last night (8/28/15) with the list, the loss was to Bara/Tyrell, though I won the rematch. I also beat Martell/NW twice and GJ/Martell once.

 

In the deck I used last night I had Calm Over Westeros (why? I don't know, I didn't have a better idea at the time) instead of Building Orders and I had two Throwing Axes (once again, thought I would throw them in, but they don't really do anything). So this list is presented with a couple modifications now that I have played several games with the original list.

 

Let's talk a little bit about the strategy:

 

In order to support flooding the board, you need lots of draw, so The Red Keep makes sense and Counting Coppers as well. Also, Summons and Building Orders work in this regard because not only can they help you find an important piece (Melisandre, Aeron Damphair, The Red Keep), but they also act as a "draw one card" plot.

 

Double Marched to the Wall is used because this deck's character quality is so much lower than the opponent's that it is a net advantage. And NO ONE expects two. It can be used when you expect your opponent to play Wildfire Assault to take each side down to two characters (which you then repopulate) or it can be used turns 1 and 2 to punish a slow start from your opponent.

 

Another option would be to cut one Marched to the Wall for a second Filthy Accusations. Since the plan is to capitalize on quantity over quality, you need to control the one or two really good characters your opponent has on the board. Which is why the Melisandre R'hllor package is used in the deck. Note that Lightbringer is in the deck only as a Melisandre trigger, so essentially you would pay 2 gold to kneel an opponent's character. Be sure to attach it on the Baratheon weenie you plan to kill or discard next so it returns to your hand!

 

It also has the Dominance winning Baratheon/Greyjoy package which enables you to grind out a game and just oppose all challenges and win Dominance. Chamber of the Painted Table acts as an accelerator and Aeron Damphair for recursion (as good as card draw).

 

 

Stag and Kraken Swarm
 
House Baratheon / Banner of the Kraken
 
Plots
1x A Feast for Crows (Core Set)
1x Building Orders (Core Set)
1x Counting Coppers (Core Set)
1x Filthy Accusations (Core Set)
2x Marched to the Wall (Core Set)
1x Summons (Core Set)
 
Characters
2x Maester Cressen (Core Set)
3x Melisandre (Core Set)
2x Selyse Baratheon (Core Set)
1x Ser Davos Seaworth (Core Set)
1x Shireen Baratheon (Core Set)
3x Bastard in Hiding (Core Set)
3x Fiery Followers (Core Set)
3x Dragonstone Faithful (Core Set)
3x Vanguard Lancer (Core Set)
3x Aeron Damphair (Core Set)
1x Asha Greyjoy (Core Set)
1x Maester Wendamyr (Core Set)
1x Theon Greyjoy (Core Set)
3x Iron Islands Fishmonger (Core Set)
3x Lordsport Shipwright (Core Set)
3x Salty Navigator (Core Set)
 
Locations
2x The Iron Throne (Core Set)
3x The Kingsroad (Core Set)
3x The Roseroad (Core Set)
3x Dragonstone Port (Core Set)
2x Chamber of the Painted Table (Core Set)
3x The Red Keep (Core Set)
 
Attachment
2x Lightbringer (Core Set)
 
Events
3x Consolidation of Power (Core Set)
3x Seen In Flames (Core Set)

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#19
ooo

ooo

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I guess what I'm not clear on is why flooding the board is good?  In Magic more creatures = more damage, but in AGOT there's a cap to how much you can damage your opponent (3 challenges).  In Magic a big creature can only block one small creature as well, while in AGOT you can multiblock the whole challenge with one big guy.

If you can support cheap creatures with cheap removal for their big creatures then you gain tempo and that's a win.  But unless you can do that then your numerical advantage can be blocked by simply having bigger characters.  



#20
agktmte

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Stealth and kneel get around the big characters. Your opponent likely only has one or two. Also, having more characters means that you can participate in more challenges. So the big character only defends or attacks one challenge, so you lose that one, big deal. You now have the big character out of the way so you can win the other two on attack (or all three if they attacked).

 

The important part of the strategy is to realize that in a Joust game there are at least 6 challenges that can be made. So if you have a lot more characters, then you can actually do something in all 6+ challenges.


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