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Ours is the Fury--any challenge type?

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Best Answer istaril , 21 August 2015 - 08:14 PM

Yes. Having the right icon is only a requirement for "declaring" a character as an attacker or defender in a challenge. If a card effect makes them participate ("Ours is the Fury", or the text on Jon Snow), there is no requirement for them to have the correct icon.

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12 replies to this topic

#1
TheOldMan

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Only during a challenge in which you are the defending player.

Action: Choose a
kneeling [Baratheon] character you control.
That character is now participating as a defender.
If you win this challenge, stand that character

 

Can you have him participate as a defender even if he doesn't have the challenge icon of the attacker?  ie Can I use a character without a MIL icon to defend against a MIL attacker?



#2
istaril

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✓  Best Answer

Yes. Having the right icon is only a requirement for "declaring" a character as an attacker or defender in a challenge. If a card effect makes them participate ("Ours is the Fury", or the text on Jon Snow), there is no requirement for them to have the correct icon.



#3
TheOldMan

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Yes. Having the right icon is only a requirement for "declaring" a character as an attacker or defender in a challenge. If a card effect makes them participate ("Ours is the Fury", or the text on Jon Snow), there is no requirement for them to have the correct icon.

I don't see where you get that from the rules, or your first sentence.  However I thought maybe you could use a defender without the challenge icon and I wanted to make sure I was interpreting correctly.

 

Edit: Well now I think I get it.



#4
istaril

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A couple of relevant entries to help:

Challenge Icon:  These icons appear on most character cards and indicate which challenge types the character may be declared for as an attacker or defender.

 

Participating: Once a character is participating in a challenge, losing the challenge icon of that type does not remove

the character from the challenge.
 
Throw in some of the other entries on Attacker/Defender, and it's pretty clear that a) you can be an attacker/defender without the relevant icon, you simply won't be *declared* (in the declare attackers/defenders) as such B) A card effect can make you participate (see Jon Snow), or C) a card effect can even allow you to declare a character as an attacker/defender without the icon (see Obara Sand).

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#5
imrahil327

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Ah, sunglasses smiley guy...the bane of people trying to list alphabetically. B)


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#6
andrewaa

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A couple of relevant entries to help:

Challenge Icon:  These icons appear on most character cards and indicate which challenge types the character may be declared for as an attacker or defender.

 

Participating: Once a character is participating in a challenge, losing the challenge icon of that type does not remove

the character from the challenge.
 
Throw in some of the other entries on Attacker/Defender, and it's pretty clear that a) you can be an attacker/defender without the relevant icon, you simply won't be *declared* (in the declare attackers/defenders) as such B) A card effect can make you participate (see Jon Snow), or C) a card effect can even allow you to declare a character as an attacker/defender without the icon (see Obara Sand).

 

Since Obara is 'declared' as a defender, she can be bypassed by stealth, while Jon Snow cannot, right?



#7
istaril

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Well, Jon Snow's ability only works to bring him in as an attacker... 

 

But yes, in that Stealth prevents declaration but not participation (so wouldn't stop someone from participating with Ours is the Fury, but would stop Obara).



#8
FallenOn3

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quick question about ours is the fury.... u can play ours is the fury on a character that is already participating as a defender so that he stands if u win that challenge? or u can only target characters that are not already participating?



#9
Grimwalker

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Yes. The only requirement for its targeting is that the character be knelt. If that goes off successfully, then two effects happen. One, they'd now be participating in the challenge; if they already are, this part fails. Two, if you win the challenge, stand that character. There is no word "then" between the two effects which would make the second dependent on the first clause executing successfully.

(I'm actually not sure whether it would technically be unsuccessful under the rules framework, but to answer your question to the fullest I assume not.)



#10
keranov

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quick question about ours is the fury.... u can play ours is the fury on a character that is already participating as a defender so that he stands if u win that challenge? or u can only target characters that are not already participating?

I believe you can do that, since the only requirement is "Choose a

kneeling [Baratheon] character you control". Any character which is under your control and is kneeling is eligible to be chosen. However, you will gain much more value for the 2 gold paid if you use it on a character which was already used to defend a previous challenge.



#11
keranov

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Sorry for 2x post. 


Edited by keranov, 24 August 2015 - 01:33 PM.


#12
ktom

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(I'm actually not sure whether it would technically be unsuccessful under the rules framework, but to answer your question to the fullest I assume not.)

 

It would not be successful because a character can only participate once. There is no change in game state by making a character that is already participating, participate a second time.

 

So if you use Ours is the Fury on a character that is already defending, there is no change in the game state from the first part of the ability. There is a change in the game state, though, by creating the conditional "stand" effect. This is what allows you to play the card in this situation -- beyond the fact that the already-defending character matches all the targeting requirements - the game state changes by creating the lasting effect.

 

That's important because the rules say that if using an ability does not change the game state in any way, you cannot use the ability. (Grimwalker is correct that if the word "then" appeared between the "defend" and "maybe stand" parts of the ability, you could not play event; the failure of the "defend" part would "then" stop the "maybe stand" lasting effect from being created, and there would be no change in the game state - making it illegal to trigger the ability.)



#13
Grimwalker

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Thanks, Ktom, you hit exactly what I was asking.