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Hero's Beginning / Imperial Bureaucracy


Best Answer medfreeman , 01 November 2015 - 11:06 PM

Hi,

 

- What happens to the remaining cards when objectives are destroyed?

They are discarded.

Although the official answer hasn't been published to Official Rules Clarification section, Einherjar has received one from ffg.

http://www.cardgamed...nside/?p=189656

 

- What happens to the remaining cards when objectives is blanked by IE Tarkin's ability?

My opinion is that the cards would stay, but couldn't be used in an edge stack for the duration of the phase. Editors Note: Cards already stacked can be used in edge battles because the effect that allows you to do so is part of the lasting effect of the Reaction which has fully resolved.

Since the text putting them 'here' has already resolved, i'd say that blanking it wouldn't affect the cards already placed.

Although the attached cards ruling requiring a constant valid attachment state exists, i can't see how it could affect the cards under the objective as long as 'here' is in play, but i could be wrong.

 

- Same questions for the cards put at this objectives by Chain Reaction's reaction to the objective's reaction.

From my understanding of the previous question about Imperial Bureaucracy and Chain Reaction (http://www.cardgamed...chain-reaction/) and my previous opinion,

i would say that the cards wouldn't be discarded when the objective's text is blanked by tarkin, and that the cards could be played in an edge battle during the phase where tarkin has blanked the objective's text, since Tarkin couldn't possibly also blank the 'copy' of the lasting effect created by Chain Reaction

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16 replies to this topic

#1
Caal

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Both cards read :

Reaction: After this objective enters play, look at and place the top 3 cards of your deck facedown here. When a friendly player would place a card in an edge stack, he may choose one of these cards and place it in the edge stack instead.

I can't find answers to those questions (looked back 4 pages of rule threads) :

- What happens to the remaining cards when objectives are destroyed?
- What happens to the remaining cards when objectives is blanked by IE Tarkin's ability?
- Same questions for the cards put at this objectives by Chain Reaction's reaction to the objective's reaction.

Sorry if it has already been answered.

#2
medfreeman

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✓  Best Answer

Hi,

 

- What happens to the remaining cards when objectives are destroyed?

They are discarded.

Although the official answer hasn't been published to Official Rules Clarification section, Einherjar has received one from ffg.

http://www.cardgamed...nside/?p=189656

 

- What happens to the remaining cards when objectives is blanked by IE Tarkin's ability?

My opinion is that the cards would stay, but couldn't be used in an edge stack for the duration of the phase. Editors Note: Cards already stacked can be used in edge battles because the effect that allows you to do so is part of the lasting effect of the Reaction which has fully resolved.

Since the text putting them 'here' has already resolved, i'd say that blanking it wouldn't affect the cards already placed.

Although the attached cards ruling requiring a constant valid attachment state exists, i can't see how it could affect the cards under the objective as long as 'here' is in play, but i could be wrong.

 

- Same questions for the cards put at this objectives by Chain Reaction's reaction to the objective's reaction.

From my understanding of the previous question about Imperial Bureaucracy and Chain Reaction (http://www.cardgamed...chain-reaction/) and my previous opinion,

i would say that the cards wouldn't be discarded when the objective's text is blanked by tarkin, and that the cards could be played in an edge battle during the phase where tarkin has blanked the objective's text, since Tarkin couldn't possibly also blank the 'copy' of the lasting effect created by Chain Reaction



#3
Bungo

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As there isn't a paragraph break in the text the "When..." part of the text is part of the lasting effect created by the reaction.

 

Blanking the objective's text after the reaction has resolved won't do anything to affect the ability.



#4
dbmeboy

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Yep, the effect allowing the cards to remain at the objective is part of the lasting effect of the Reaction (which has already resolved).  Blanking the Reaction after that point does not undo the lasting effect.



#5
medfreeman

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You mean that tarkin blanking the objective's text will not even prevent the cards under it to being used during an edge battle ?

#6
dbmeboy

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You mean that tarkin blanking the objective's text will not even prevent the cards under it to being used during an edge battle ?


Ah, yes. Missed that section in your original post. I'll edit it to be correct.

#7
medfreeman

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Thank you ! I also stroke the last line through, since it's now irrelevant, as you specified that even with the objective's text blanked by tarkin, the cards can be played during an edge battle.



#8
dbmeboy

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Sounds good.

 

Tarkin is very good, but he doesn't stop every trick  :) .



#9
Boreas

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(3.7) Lasting Effects Any effect that modifies a card or the game state for a specified duration of time is known as a ‘lasting effect.’

 

 

I can't see any 'specified duration of time' written on Hero's Beggining.

 

Tatooine.
Reaction: After this objective enters play, look at and place the top 3 cards of your deck facedown here. When a friendly player would place a card in an edge stack, he may choose one of these cards and place it in the edge stack instead.



#10
Saibot

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Wouldn't attachments and pilots (or at least Hoth Luke and Wedge) have some leverage with Tarkin being their state a lasting effect of their deployment? 

 

And, if not, could we just make a poll or something to make FFG rule that a deployment condition is not checking all the time so attachments on other cards are not discarded if blanked?



#11
Boreas

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I think that there isn't any Lasting Effect here.

 

The Lasting Effect needs  'specified duration of time', e.g. 'Reduce the cost of the next Capital Ship unit you play this phase by 2.'



#12
medfreeman

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@Boreas I think you should probably submit this to FFG, requesting a detailed explanation, so we're settled once and for all.



#13
dbmeboy

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I've already submitted it.  I suspect the result will be clarification of the lasting effect definition to cover effects with an indefinite duration.



#14
dbmeboy

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Q:

What happens to cards stacked at Hero's Beginning if the objective is "blanked" by Tarkin?

 

A:

Nothing. The Reaction from A Hero’s Beginning sets up a lasting effect that persists until the objective leaves play that allows the LS player to use the cards placed at that objective to be used in edge battles. That Reaction has fully resolved before Tarkin’s card effect would blank the objective. The objective being blank does not remove the ongoing lasting effect.

--
Erik Dahlman
LCG Developer
Fantasy Flight Games


#15
Boreas

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That's not what the rules say. But Erik has the last word.

 

 

The Reaction from A Hero’s Beginning sets up a lasting effect that persists until the objective leaves play that allows the LS player to use the cards placed at that objective to be used in edge battles. 

 

 

 

No, there isn't anything like that written on this card.



#16
dbmeboy

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Here's the thing: this was never really a question about how Tarkin was going to interact with Hero's Beginning.  At the time Tarkin blanks it, the Reaction has finished resolving.  If that weren't the case, then the game would never be able to move on beyond attempting to resolve the Reaction.

 

This was really just a question of whether I personally had improperly used the term "lasting effect" to describe something that wasn't technically a lasting effect, or whether the definition was intended to include indefinite duration effects but imprecisely worded.  Again, it doesn't really matter because it's not the category "lasting effect" that makes Hero's Beginning keep working after Tarkin blanks the objective.  It keeps working because that's how the timing structure of the game works.  "Lasting effect" is a term defined purely to allow the description of a category of effects that act just like Hero's Beginning: they create an effect that persists beyond the resolution of the ability. 

 

If you want to exclude Hero's Beginning from the category because the definition talks about a specified duration instead of an indefinite duration, I guess you can do that.  I'm not aware of any actual rules significance of the term anyways.  Just be aware that things that are true about how the game interacts with lasting effects will also be true about how the game interacts with Hero's Beginning.


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#17
Jarratt

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So hang on. Tarkin blanks Hero's Beginning and you can still toss the cards in edge. Crazy.
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