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imperial fist and adaptive strategy


Best Answer dbmeboy , 04 January 2016 - 06:35 PM

To answer this question requires a breakdown of the the elements of a card ability. This gets technical, so please bear with me.
 
A card ability is made up of multiple elements which include (but are not necessarily limited to) the following:
 
-Triggering Condition: This appears in Reactions and Interrupts to tell you when you can trigger that card ability.
-Conditional requirement/restriction/permission: This is something that generally starts with “if” or “while” that tells you a condition that must be met or must be true in order to initiate the card ability or must happen for the ability to successfully resolve.
-Cost: Any cost you are required to pay in order to resolve the card ability successfully.
-Effect: What the card ability does if it successfully resolves. (Generally, anything that is not a triggering condition, a conditional requirement/restriction/permission, or a cost is considered the effect.)
 
-Adaptive Strategy (0522) reads: “After a fate card effect resolves, resolve that effect again as if that card were in your edge stack.” 
-This tells you to resolve only the “effect” again.
 
-The Imperial Fist (0885) reads: “If you control a participating unique [IMPERIAL NAVY] unit, move up to 2 damage from a friendly objective to a target enemy objective.” 
-This card ability is composed of two parts: a “conditional requirement” and an “effect.” Adaptive strategy only copies the effects of a card ability. Because of that, it can successfully copy the effects of The Imperial Fist, because “If you control a participating unique [IMPERIAL NAVY] unit” is part of the “conditional requirement,” not the “effect.”
--
Erik Dahlman
LCG Developer
Fantasy Flight Games
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33 replies to this topic

#21
dbmeboy

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Yes, that combo is definitely true (though in that case, this ruling shouldn't be a surprise since you'd be copying an effect where you met the conditional requirement).

Edit: well that was an unfortunate time for a new page. Above response is to using Secret Informant and Adaptive Strategy to resolve IHYN from your own edge stack a total of 3 times if you win the edge battle.

#22
theChony

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Yes Yodaman, that's how it would work.

 

It got clearer for me, I thought LS could trigger fate cards that never were supposed to go off. I'm ok with this.

 

Edit: this makes Commando Raid much stronger with IHYN. Possibly broken?



#23
dbmeboy

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Again, I'm waiting for official clarification on whether either card can copy an effect that didn't meet the conditional requirement the first time, but I'd say I'm 99% sure that the answer wI'll be that they cannot. That would mean that AS can turn Fist or IHYN back at the DS player, but only if the DS player successfully resolved them first.

Fun combo that is definitely possible though: AS can copy a DS Target of Opportunity (will still damage the engaged objective). Maybe useful to trigger Prep for Evac?

#24
Boreas

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So with...

 

"Action: Discard a fate card from your hand to resolve its effect, if able. (Limit once per turn.)"

 

Can I discard IHYN to "destroy a target participating enemy unit" anytime (during battle)?

 

How does it work with Secret Objective?


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#25
Queklaine

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Hehe.  I knew this ruling would open up a whole new can of worms if it went this way.  I was only thinking of imperial fist and princes scheme when I started this.  I have you now is a much bigger problem if this is how its ruled.  Being able to trigger these fate cards without meeting there prerequisits is not good for the future.  This is how games can get broken and ruined.  There are too many smart people that play these games and find ways to exploit these kinds of rulings.  I understand why it was ruled this way.  I think its bad for the game and I just don't agree with it.



#26
dbmeboy

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So with...

 

"Action: Discard a fate card from your hand to resolve its effect, if able. (Limit once per turn.)"

 

Can I discard IHYN to "destroy a target participating enemy unit" anytime (during battle)?

 

How does it work with Secret Objective?

Yes, Commando Raid does work that way with I Have You Now. Toggle has it right below.  Because Commando Raid says "ability" instead of "effect" it copies the entire ability, including conditional requirements.

 

Secret Objective looks to me like it won't do anything (if you're playing it while the defender).  You're not currently engaged with anything so you cannot engage a different objective instead.



#27
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The quoted text for Commando Raid is incorrect (and it is in the text version on CGDB at http://www.cardgamed...ando-raid-r1169).  The actual card says "ability" not "effect".

 

ffg_SWC22_132-1.png


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#28
chiller087

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Hmmm...the rulebook says:

 

"All card abilities fall into one of the following types: Constant Effects, Actions, Traits, Interrupts, Reactions, and Keywords."

 

Which one of those would cover fate cards?



#29
dbmeboy

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Also confirmed that in order to resolve an effect "again" or an "additional time" the effect must resolve a first time.  So you can't Adaptive Strategy a I Have You Now that failed for instance.



#30
dbmeboy

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Hmmm...the rulebook says:

 

"All card abilities fall into one of the following types: Constant Effects, Actions, Traits, Interrupts, Reactions, and Keywords."

 

Which one of those would cover fate cards?

Fate cards live in their own special world, but if forced to classify them I would say constant effects.  They're most similar to other "constant" effects that have an initiation point (eg core Leia).



#31
PBrennan

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Erik's note is careful to exclude (from effects) only conditions that pertain to the ability as a whole. It's probably important to note that conditions can still be part of an effect. For example, if an ability said:

 

"While X, do Y. If the Balance of the Force is with the dark side, do Z instead."

where Y might be deal 1 damage to something, and Z is deal 2 damage instead.

 

Here, the condition is "While X" and the effect is "do Y. If the Balance of the Force is with the dark side, do Z instead."



#32
Jarratt

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Also confirmed that in order to resolve an effect "again" or an "additional time" the effect must resolve a first time. So you can't Adaptive Strategy a I Have You Now that failed for instance.


Well it would have been amazing and really dumb if you could.

I'm pretty unclear on the use of resolve though. Isn't resolving a card completing the steps to an outcome, regardless of whether that outcome was successful or not.

I have you now still gets resolved, it just doesn't do anything. Do they have a clearer definition for resolve somewhere?

#33
dbmeboy

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Well it would have been amazing and really dumb if you could.

I'm pretty unclear on the use of resolve though. Isn't resolving a card completing the steps to an outcome, regardless of whether that outcome was successful or not.

I have you now still gets resolved, it just doesn't do anything. Do they have a clearer definition for resolve somewhere?

The effect of I Have You Now does not resolve because the conditional requirement was not met.  Resolving an effect is roughly synonymous to having the effect do something (if another card effect alters how the effect resolves, the effect did still resolve).



#34
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