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No Middle Ground - seismic meta shift?

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124 replies to this topic

#41
theamazingmrg

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As with any card - your mileage may vary.  I've used Wolfswood quite a bit and it'd a great supporting card.  Nothing to build a deck around but a card I'm very rarely unhappy to see.

 

Just because you have issues with trait-themed decks doesn't mean the cards that support them are bad.  In the case of Dothraki Sea, the release of Aggo may just be enough Dothraki to make it useful.  Time will tell.

 

As for the Lanni Jumper deck - it's already powerful.  Anyone who has been able to use The Hound more than once in a challenge phase can tell you that.  Obviously the deck needs a solid core of stable characters to build around but the Ambush characters are the icing on the cake.



#42
sparrowhawk

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Unfortunately not, attackers/defenders are declared all at once. You could go power with dany, mil with horas, int with dany though so you still get multiple uses.


Thanks for the clarification.

He makes Dany into a non-kneeler in that Power challenge with him. With Power Behind The Throne on him, you would actually gain 2 stands benefit from the plot. He's strong...

#43
sparrowhawk

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As with any card - your mileage may vary. I've used Wolfswood quite a bit and it'd a great supporting card. Nothing to build a deck around but a card I'm very rarely unhappy to see.

Just because you have issues with trait-themed decks doesn't mean the cards that support them are bad. In the case of Dothraki Sea, the release of Aggo may just be enough Dothraki to make it useful. Time will tell.

As for the Lanni Jumper deck - it's already powerful. Anyone who has been able to use The Hound more than once in a challenge phase can tell you that. Obviously the deck needs a solid core of stable characters to build around but the Ambush characters are the icing on the cake.


Yeah, I most definitely have issues.

I'm just surprised that Wolfswood ALREADY sees play prior to this pack. Slots are tight. I guess 3 gold to threaten Warm Rain is a decent represented threat too, though telegraphed due to lack of other ambush options. If the stars align...

As for the Lanni Jumper deck, nobody says the Hound is weak (and I wrote that I'm currently refining a tempo GJ Lion that may play him x3). What I can't stomach is 3x Hear Me Roar and 3x Never Bet (or whatever the numbers are) taking up non-set up card slots. At least Gold Cloaks can be set up even if awful then. In the spectrum of high variance to low variance decks, the Lanni Crossing version (so no Rose Bear mitigation with Tickler, Gregor and Bet) seems to be breaking the scale on high variance. My friend (SC winner so a decent player) played the Lanni Crossing jumper deck in testing and I won 3-0 with 3 different decks. So I wasn't impressed.

If we had Enemy Informer from 1E (kneel target when comes into play), then yes I'd start considering them. But whilst I appreciate that card advantage is often sacrificed for tempo, 2 cards for 1 challenge win seems a steep situational price for me. Unless you are playing with and against 2 claim when it's a wash.

As I said, I have issues. I have detailed my criticisms of the deck with the current pool. Its victory is to me emblematic of the high variance in the game.

#44
cml

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I'll reply to Sparrowhawk's analysis of the Lanni jumper deck in the deck thread so as not to hijack this post further.  Suffice it to say, I disagree.  But to get back on topic...

 

The card in this pack that might subtly impact the meta in a big way are the Red Cloaks.  Lannister's main (only?) weakness is that their weenies were somewhat lackluster.  I don't care about the ability here - adding a 2 cost, 2 str bicon shores that weakness up significantly.  I think Lannister Fealty gets a lot better from this pack.  It also opens up more banner options, as the Lannister player doesn't have to care about importing good low cost characters as much.  For instance, off the top of my head I think Banner of the Kraken becomes more appealing.


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#45
Serazu

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It also opens up more banner options, as the Lannister player doesn't have to care about importing good low cost characters as much.  For instance, off the top of my head I think Banner of the Kraken becomes more appealing.

 

 

I'd personally never pick the Cloaks over the Shipwrights, unless anywhere I went I stumbled upon a Blood of the Dragon. And even then, I'd still think long and hard before abandoning the Shipwrights.


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#46
cml

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I'd personally never pick the Cloaks over the Shipwrights, unless anywhere I went I stumbled upon a Blood of the Dragon. And even then, I'd still think long and hard before abandoning the Shipwrights.

 

I don't see the two as mutually exclusive.  The Gold Cloaks would replace the Salty Navigator that you might have had to run to keep your curve down.  (Or the Burned Men, depending).  And that also helps smooth out your icon spread.


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#47
DoctorRiptide

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I'll reply to Sparrowhawk's analysis of the Lanni jumper deck in the deck thread so as not to hijack this post further.  Suffice it to say, I disagree.  But to get back on topic...

 

The card in this pack that might subtly impact the meta in a big way are the Red Cloaks.  Lannister's main (only?) weakness is that their weenies were somewhat lackluster.  I don't care about the ability here - adding a 2 cost, 2 str bicon shores that weakness up significantly.  I think Lannister Fealty gets a lot better from this pack.  It also opens up more banner options, as the Lannister player doesn't have to care about importing good low cost characters as much.  For instance, off the top of my head I think Banner of the Kraken becomes more appealing.

 

An interesting interaction between Lannister and Kraken banner, Newly Made Lords have the Lord trait, so if you pack in a Joffrey, he can wrack up power when they die (since after they nuke a location, they're more or less claim soak anyway). 


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#48
Serazu

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I don't see the two as mutually exclusive.  The Gold Cloaks would replace the Salty Navigator that you might have had to run to keep your curve down.  (Or the Burned Men, depending).  And that also helps smooth out your icon spread.

 

Wait. Is anyone really playing the Navigator in Banner of the Kraken builds?



#49
cml

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Wait. Is anyone really playing the Navigator in Banner of the Kraken builds?

 

I've seen it occasionally.  Haven't delved into Kraken banner too much myself.



#50
Alexfrog

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Just quoting this particular part to highlight a disagreement - I think Lanni Crossing, especially the jumping one, gets better with First Snow.  You're more likely to have dupes out than your opponent, you can leverage your large characters (which are better in Lannister than in any other house), you eliminate most of their claim soak, and you can jump in Burned Men / Gold Cloaks for claim soak, and the Hound for challenges wins as well.

 

I don't see any way that Lanni Crossing is hurt by this.

It might just get better yeah.  I'm not sure.  But crossing definitely rewards you in those games where both players have like 7 guys out.  First Snow reduces that.  I at least think it helps lanni/banner decks more than lanni.crossing.



#51
keithsboredom

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Whenever I think of Targ, I can't help but feel FFG forgot to print "Without attachments" at the end of the first sentence of Dracarys!

 

Then they just went with it after they noticed their printing mistake.

it's probable they had this at first and targ simply wasn't strong enough when it had that limitation 


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#52
Alexfrog

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Wait. Is anyone really playing the Navigator in Banner of the Kraken builds?

He can be ok if you are going with an Aeron/Risen from the Sea route on your kraken banner, possibly because you want to protect yourself from military claim destruction. 



#53
JoeFromCincinnati

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it's probably they had this at first and targ simply wasn't strong enough when it had that limitation 

 

Maybe. But If that were the case, I would argue, in an attempt to balance the card, they made it one of the most powerful cards in the game haha.


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#54
xchan

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While I agree that Attainted is always useful, stripping Catelyn's Intrigue icon is less useful than it would be in any other faction because of Starks ability to bypass the declaration of attackers or defenders.

 

That's not entirelly true. To bypass the declaration of attackers and defenders, they need to control a character participating in the attack in the first place. Since Catelyn is usually their only INT icon character, they can't fullfill that. So I would say that against Starks, Attained is even more useful, because it has the potential to completelly shut them down of a challange type for the rest of the game.



#55
theamazingmrg

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Most Starks run Sansa as well. And Luwin crops up occasionally. Septa Mordane and Osha will be joining the cardpool in the very near future. They have the other icons, just not the str to win with them.
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#56
kizerman86

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I was able to test out Martell/GJ with 3x Condemned, 1x Fishing Net, and a huge focus on POW challenges w/ Stealth and High Initiative to go 2nd and hit back harder on power challenges with Sunspear, Superior Claim, Clash of Kings, Sneak Attack, etc....

 

It's great.  Condemned just hampers your opponent's ability to win power challenges on both attack and defense so much it's unreal. You only need a few good turns to close the game, and Condemned makes sure the opportunity is there.  


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#57
Shadowist

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Played a few games with blood of the dragon out of Targ/Rose - I don't think it's quite there yet, maybe fealty can use it but there aren't enough easily triggerable burn effects to make it work, 1.0 had hatchlings and forever burning to hit characters with outside challenges, people just avoid blocking or attacking when they see daenerys or unsullied (which can be argued is good too) but isn't on the same level as it was in 1.0.


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#58
PatrickHaynes

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I was able to test out Martell/GJ with 3x Condemned, 1x Fishing Net, and a huge focus on POW challenges w/ Stealth and High Initiative to go 2nd and hit back harder on power challenges with Sunspear, Superior Claim, Clash of Kings, Sneak Attack, etc....

 

It's great.  Condemned just hampers your opponent's ability to win power challenges on both attack and defense so much it's unreal. You only need a few good turns to close the game, and Condemned makes sure the opportunity is there.  

Were you main house martell or GJ?



#59
kizerman86

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Martell, for Ghaston on a problem character (and I get back the Condemned if already attached to them), Doran's Game for a bit of reach, but mostly for TRV.

 

GJ is probably just as good if not better, but losing Ghaston hurts when you lose on defense so much if your opponent gets out early bombs/renown.



#60
bored2excess

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I was able to test out Martell/GJ with 3x Condemned, 1x Fishing Net, and a huge focus on POW challenges w/ Stealth and High Initiative to go 2nd and hit back harder on power challenges with Sunspear, Superior Claim, Clash of Kings, Sneak Attack, etc....

 

It's great.  Condemned just hampers your opponent's ability to win power challenges on both attack and defense so much it's unreal. You only need a few good turns to close the game, and Condemned makes sure the opportunity is there.  

 

I've been building a power challenge/dom tech Bara Banner Sun deck that runs Condemned, to help fuel the red keep and moon boy and keep the opponent from taking an early edge, I agree that it can be a surprisingly effective nuisance, especially when players aren't too concerned about power icons until the endgame. Will have to see if the dominance theme survives the Stark box for mine, though.