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Grigory Maksim deck thread

Grigory Maksim

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157 replies to this topic

#21
palpster

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Right now I would rate this the weakest of the AM Warlords to be honest. Not far behind Straken, but not even close to Coteaz and Worr. Of course that could change when we see more of the Deathworld cycle.

Main reason being that I don't want to play the likes of Troop Transport as a shield most of the time. And to add other supports just because they are shields seems a poor choice. AM has a lot of good events that I'd rather include for their ability while also being shields if the need arises.

His sig unit is awesome though.
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#22
Kaloo

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Main reason being that I don't want to play the likes of Troop Transport as a shield most of the time. And to add other supports just because they are shields seems a poor choice. AM has a lot of good events that I'd rather include for their ability while also being shields if the need arises.

 

This is a mistake I've seen several people make when deckbuilding: taking cards for the sake of having more shields is not a good idea. Yes, shields are needed, but the use of the card in question is far more needed, hence why Doom Siren never sees play. The fact that he can use his supports as shields does not mean that he should every time he's attacked. The decision to shield is the no different than before; is the loss of this card worth the prevention of damage? Would you rather keep the Troop Transport in hand and lose the battle, or have the choice of throwing it to win the battle? There have been countless times that I've thrown a Preemptive Barrage or Archon's Terror as a shield, not because I wanted to but because it was the right move at the time, and the same can apply here.

What his ability does is give you the choice to shield more attacks, which is a good thing, but it definitely does not mean you shouldn't take other great non-support cards either. The Maksim deck I was testing has only 3 more supports than my Worr deck with a few less events and/or units, which means that whilst I fully intend to play every single one of those cards I now have the option to shield with more of my deck.

Sure, a lot of decks have existed with a similar number of shield cards (read: no supports other than the sig), but supports generally have better effects than events, so adding versatility to them is quite strong indeed.

I actually think that Maksim is very strong indeed, but I wont cast definite judgements just yet until the warlord's released (along with whatever other cards are released beforehand). Based on playtesting, however, everything about him and his squad is strong, whilst his attachment is mediocre (but still decent). A few more tanks would definitely help, however


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#23
Kaloo

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With the abundance in command available to AM I may skip promotions. This would clear up much needed space for more events.

I run pretty light on attachments in general out of this faction but....is it finally time to seriously use dozer blades?

 

I dropped Promotions in AM a long time ago. Seems to have done pretty well for me >.>

The problem with Dozer Blades is that they are essentially conditional double shields that are also a deploy stall, ignore Armourbane and pair up with Iridial. At least in Starblaze they link up with Tau'va (which isn't easy to run in Starblaze), but they're worth considering only when there's an abundance of targets and you can guarantee card draw, which is hard in an expensive deck. Still, probably worth it with 12 vehicles (ideally all tanks) that are cost spread
 

 

I think this guy will be good and fun, but I think he'll still be second banana to Worr. I think he's a little trick heavy and I think Worr will do everything he can, just better.

 

My breakdown is this:

 

1. Worr

2. Maksim

3. Straken

4. Coteaz

 

My reasoning is Worr is still top dog, and Maksim is a close second with decent cards, but not enough to jostle Worr.  Sraken at least has some damage and can put out some hurt. Coteaz is still too trick dependent/combo heavy to not be ruined by various events.

 

Maksim is more consistent than Worr on non-green planets, whilst losing out to Worr on greens. Which is better overall, however, remains to be seen, but I've got the inclination that Maksim will overtake thanks to the increasing amount of swarm controll we've been seeing.

 

Without going into the specifics, how are we looking at building this?

 

I'm thinking 25-26 units, 3 Promotions, 3 Barrages, 4 signature cards makes 14-15 card slots spare.

 

To Arms and Bolster the Defences look like strong events, but I'm thinking at least 10 additional supports would be sensible, and maybe as high as 12. We can squeeze things further if we like, but I'm not sure thats sensible.

 

I'd drop Promotions for 3 more command units and go up to 13 supports. Also, whilst the Imperial Bunker does sort-of help fund the expensive things, the return on investment is too slow to be worthwhile. Take 1 maybe since it's at least a recyclable shield, but don't bother with 3.



#24
Jreilly89

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With the abundance in command available to AM I may skip promotions. This would clear up much needed space for more events.

I run pretty light on attachments in general out of this faction but....is it finally time to seriously use dozer blades?

I actually run 3x Dozer blades in my Gorzod deck and I think it's great not only as a shield, but for making some nasty vehicles. Gorzod's sig with his support out suddenly becomes a 2/7 or a 4/7 when your opponent has Initiative.



#25
Jreilly89

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Cool, I would have said Worr is ahead of Coteaz by a margin, who in turn is just ahead of Straken. I've not worked out where Maksim sits yet, but I'm thinking its somewhere between Worr and Coteaz.

 

Essentially my core logic is this:

Main advantage is being able to use Supports as shields. 

The size of this advantage is dependent on how much better Supports are than attachments/events in strength, if we treat them as 1-shielders.

Right now, though AM has some excellent supports, there's a load of 2-shielders of high quality in AM, and a lot of decent 1-shielders too. Therefore right now, the advantage gained from replacing Events/Attachments with Supports is minimal.

You think Coteaz is ahead of Straken? For what reason?

My thinking is Straken's ability is always on, and although Worr can make more from them, Straken runs a very similar token swarm build that Worr does. While Coteaz runs something similar, he really has to focus heavily on planets and spreading thin often hurts him.



#26
Jreilly89

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I dropped Promotions in AM a long time ago. Seems to have done pretty well for me >.>

The problem with Dozer Blades is that they are essentially conditional double shields that are also a deploy stall, ignore Armourbane and pair up with Iridial. At least in Starblaze they link up with Tau'va (which isn't easy to run in Starblaze), but they're worth considering only when there's an abundance of targets and you can guarantee card draw, which is hard in an expensive deck. Still, probably worth it with 12 vehicles (ideally all tanks) that are cost spread
 

 

 

Maksim is more consistent than Worr on non-green planets, whilst losing out to Worr on greens. Which is better overall, however, remains to be seen, but I've got the inclination that Maksim will overtake thanks to the increasing amount of swarm controll we've been seeing.

 

 

I'd drop Promotions for 3 more command units and go up to 13 supports. Also, whilst the Imperial Bunker does sort-of help fund the expensive things, the return on investment is too slow to be worthwhile. Take 1 maybe since it's at least a recyclable shield, but don't bother with 3.

While I agree Maksim is more consistent than Worr, don't forget: Worr can make any non-green planet green with his events, effectively removing that weakness.

 

It'll be interesting to see this shake out, but I think Maksim will need some serious card power to jostle Worr off the top spot.



#27
Grimbo

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I actually run 3x Dozer blades in my Gorzod deck and I think it's great not only as a shield, but for making some nasty vehicles. Gorzod's sig with his support out suddenly becomes a 2/7 or a 4/7 when your opponent has Initiative.


Pretty sure you can't run dozer blades in Gorzod :)
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#28
Jreilly89

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Pretty sure you can't run dozer blades in Gorzod :)

Por que? Because they're an event? If so, I've been running illegal decks  :wacko:



#29
refbot

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no, because the only non ork cards you can run in gorzod are common AM and SM VEHICLES

 

 

it says it on the warlord somewhere



#30
estyles

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no, because the only non ork cards you can run in gorzod are common AM and SM VEHICLES

 

 

it says it on the warlord somewhere

 

Aha, but only on the front.  If you build your decks using his bloodied side and only flip him over Hale when the game starts, I'm pretty sure that's legal (but no Ork Wolf Predator then).

 

 

(No, I don't really think that.)


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#31
refbot

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its honestly a way better ability that way if you start him bloodied. then you can add dozer blade and make your gorzod deck shine



#32
Solaris

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If they give Maksims more cheap tank units, I think he might be more viable, but having to pay 5-6 resources for non-sig tank units makes his ability too situational to be useful. But I'm already looking forward to Maksims even though I think Gorzod is still better than him and can make better use of vehicle units.



#33
Grimbo

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I'm not sure who will be better between the two(and no j don't think talking Gorzod is a thread hijacking) :P

Gorzod will always have cheaper units, but limited to no control options.
Maksim will have a tougher resource curve but an embarrassment of AM support and event riches for back up.

Who knows, maybe he will get a bonesinger level type card to assist.
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#34
Asklepios

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You think Coteaz is ahead of Straken? For what reason?

My thinking is Straken's ability is always on, and although Worr can make more from them, Straken runs a very similar token swarm build that Worr does. While Coteaz runs something similar, he really has to focus heavily on planets and spreading thin often hurts him.

 

8 HP, 8 cards, 8 resources. That's pretty much it. Straken has got a better sig event, sig squad. Coteaz has a better sig support and sig attachment. Straken does more impressive Barrages. Coteaz is more resilient. But an 8/8 start is a huge thing, significantly increasing the quality of first turns.


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#35
Asklepios

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Anyway, thinking on Maksim, I'm still convinced tank synergy can be almost ignored. Its all about supports and shields, and the deckbuilds that allows.

 

I'm wondering if a 3 depot approach with something like 18-19 supports. Could work.


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#36
MadMagician

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I think this is the list I'm going to test initially; Barring any cool synergistic cards releasing between now and then.

Grigory Maksim

Army (28)

3x Enginseer Augur (Core Set)
3x Iron Guard Recruits (The Scourge)
3x Leman Russ Battle Tank (Core Set)
3x Leman Russ Conqueror (The Final Gambit)
4x Maksim's Squadron (Slash and Burn)
3x Mordian Hellhound (Core Set)
3x Rogue Trader (Core Set)
3x Sanctioned Psyker (Core Set)
3x Void Pirate (Core Set)

 

 

Attachment (1)
1x Searchlight (Slash and Burn)

 

 

Event (5)
3x Backlash (Legions of Death)
2x Keep Firing! (Slash and Burn)

 

 

Support (16)
3x Catachan Outpost (Core Set)
1x Cathedral of Saint Camila (Wrath of the Crusaders)
1x Clearing the Path (Slash and Burn)
1x Imperial Bunker (Core Set)
3x Inquisitorial Fortress (The Scourge)
3x Promethium Mine (Core Set)
3x Rockcrete Bunker (Core Set)
1x STC Fragment (Legions of Death)



#37
MrWizard

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Barring any cool synergistic cards releasing between now and then.


I like the idea of Vostroyan Officer and Land Raider at the same planet..

Also, I think Gregory is best placed to make good use of STC Fragment x3.

#38
phillosmaster

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I'm late to this discussion but the argument above about including other supports just because they are shield is missing the point.  Maksim can include supports more easily because they now have no downside.  Unique supports can be 3x now to maximize the probability of appearing early game.  Those extras aren't dead draws.  Supports drawn during the command phase can assist in the upcoming combat.  Supports with limited that you can't use this turn can still have a game effect.  It basically removes the chief problem with supports.  The fact that sometimes they are just a dead draws.  Something like STC Fragment for example that is both limited and unique is pretty hard to run 3x to ensure you get it as early as possible.  Sure it's helping your cost curve, but at the expense of it being multiple potential dead draws.

 

That said how many supports can an AM warlord afford to run is a hard question.  Especially if these Maksim decks are running STC fragments and elite tanks.  Things like Fall Back and Backlash now are also competing for space. 



#39
Grimbo

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That said how many supports can an AM warlord afford to run is a hard question. Especially if these Maksim decks are running STC fragments and elite tanks. Things like Fall Back and Backlash now are also competing for space.


How many supports? Well if we go 27 units, 3 attachments(sig and 2 dozer blades yea), you would have a 10/10 or 11/9 event to support spread which sounds fair to me. Even something like 8 event/12 supports sounds viable but might be too predictable. 8 events would be 2 signature, 2-3 fall back/backlash combo and one other.

At that point you are playing a version of Gorzod.

But anyway I think there is room for all this mess.

#40
Ultramarine

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If they give Maksims more cheap tank units, I think he might be more viable, but having to pay 5-6 resources for non-sig tank units makes his ability too situational to be useful. But I'm already looking forward to Maksims even though I think Gorzod is still better than him and can make better use of vehicle units.

 

With STC fragments a lot of those tanks become 3-4 cost which is a lot more reasonable.  He can also use Standard Bearer and Flank 'Em which gives your deck more combat tricks.