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Bitterbridge Encampment

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Best Answer uBaHoB , 13 July 2016 - 06:57 AM

Reactions happen after the When revealed resolves:

RR page 26

 

III. Initiate When Revealed abilities. Any when
revealed abilities on plot cards that have just been
revealed must now initiate. If multiple players
have When revealed abilities on their plot cards,
the first player determines the order in which these
abilities initiate. Resolve each when revealed ability
before initiating the next.
Once these steps are complete, the players have
completed the process of revealing plots. If a player has
no cards in his or her plot deck, that player's used pile
now returns to his or her plot deck. (The just revealed
plot is not yet in the used pile and does not return at
this time.)
TIMING NOTE: Any reaction abilities that read “After
you reveal a plot card” or “After a player reveals a plot card”
may be initiated after the completion of the above step III.

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11 replies to this topic

#1
mplain

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gt09_bitterbridge-encampment.png

 

When exactly does this ability trigger? I imagine it's after both "When Revealed" abilities have resolved, correct?

 

An example situation: I reveal Calm Over Westeros, my opponent reveals Marched to the Wall, wins initiative and chooses me to go first. I choose to resolve Calm Over Westeros first. Can I then trigger Bitterbridge Encampment, to get an extra character out before Marched resolves?


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#2
uBaHoB

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✓  Best Answer

Reactions happen after the When revealed resolves:

RR page 26

 

III. Initiate When Revealed abilities. Any when
revealed abilities on plot cards that have just been
revealed must now initiate. If multiple players
have When revealed abilities on their plot cards,
the first player determines the order in which these
abilities initiate. Resolve each when revealed ability
before initiating the next.
Once these steps are complete, the players have
completed the process of revealing plots. If a player has
no cards in his or her plot deck, that player's used pile
now returns to his or her plot deck. (The just revealed
plot is not yet in the used pile and does not return at
this time.)
TIMING NOTE: Any reaction abilities that read “After
you reveal a plot card” or “After a player reveals a plot card”
may be initiated after the completion of the above step III.


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#3
NikolaP

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So, all When revealed are resolved, then Reactions?



#4
theamazingmrg

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So, all When revealed are resolved, then Reactions?


Yes.
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#5
mplain

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Another question.

Bitterbridge Encampment

Reaction: After a Summer plot card is revealed, kneel Bitterbridge Encampment. Then, each player may put a character into play from his or her hand.

 

I trigger Bitterbridge Encampment and kneel it (it's effect is not cancelled). How do we proceed with the post-Then aspect?

 

1) The first player puts a character into play, then the second player.

2) The first player chooses and reveals a character, then the second player, then players simultaneously put the chosen characters into play.

3) Each player secretly chooses a character and sets it aside (like plots), then players simultaneously put the chosen characters into play.

 

Here's the relevant RRG entry:

 

Priority of Simultaneous Resolution
 
If a single effect affects multiple players simultaneously, but the players must individually make choices to resolve the effect, the first player chooses first, followed by the other players in player order. Once all necessary choices have been made, the effect resolves simultaneously upon all affected entities.

 

This is the procedure used to resolve Wildfire and Marched. What bugs me is the absence of the word "choose" in Bitterbridge Encampment, while the quoted entry applies when the players "must individually make choices". One could argue that 'making choices' is not limited to something that has the word "choose", but we know where that line of thinking brought us last time, with Tears of Lys.


#6
steinerp

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It should be option 3.  Simultaneous resolution requires the choices to be made not the actual resolution aka putting into play



#7
A37N

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It should be option 3.  Simultaneous resolution requires the choices to be made not the actual resolution aka putting into play

What if a player doesn't want / can't put a character into play? How can he secretly choose?



#8
ktom

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So, all When revealed are resolved, then Reactions?

 

 

Careful here. All "When Revealed" effects on all plots are resolved, then Reactions to revealing plots can be triggered (no matter when a given the plot's "When Revealed" text resolved). However, reactions to triggering conditions created by the "When Revealed" effect itself would be triggered immediately after resolving the given "When Revealed."

 

 

Another question.

 

I trigger Bitterbridge Encampment and kneel it (it's effect is not cancelled). How do we proceed with the post-Then aspect?

 

1) The first player puts a character into play, then the second player.

2) The first player chooses and reveals a character, then the second player, then players simultaneously put the chosen characters into play.

3) Each player secretly chooses a character and sets it aside (like plots), then players simultaneously put the chosen characters into play.

 

Note that "make choices" is a little broader than "choose targets." 

 

The correct answer should be #2. The first player indicates his intention to put a character into play (by either revealing the character or declaring his intention to not put a character into play), followed by the other players indicating their respective intentions in player order, then the indicated characters enter play simultaneously.

 

It's like Arianne. You indicate your intention by revealing the character you intend to put into play, even though that character doesn't leave your hand for another 4-5 steps. You reveal the card in order for all players to ensure that all of Arianne's play restrictions are being met. The fact that Bitterbridge Encampment doesn't have any play restrictions on the character doesn't change the process -- after all, there could be an external effect imposing restrictions on the character entering play.


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#9
mplain

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Note that "make choices" is a little broader than "choose targets." 

 

The correct answer should be #2. The first player indicates his intention to put a character into play (by either revealing the character or declaring his intention to not put a character into play), followed by the other players indicating their respective intentions in player order, then the indicated characters enter play simultaneously.

 

It's like Arianne. You indicate your intention by revealing the character you intend to put into play, even though that character doesn't leave your hand for another 4-5 steps. You reveal the card in order for all players to ensure that all of Arianne's play restrictions are being met. The fact that Bitterbridge Encampment doesn't have any play restrictions on the character doesn't change the process -- after all, there could be an external effect imposing restrictions on the character entering play.

 

I don't understand. There is literally nothing in the RRG that in any form would say that "when an effect instructs you to put a card into play, you need to reveal it first". For Arianne and the like, the rules were interpreted as requiring to reveal a card to prove that you can actually resolve a triggered ability and change the game state, before your opponent gets to decide whether to cancel it. This makes sense. But this is not the case here. Why then is it "like Arianne"? What part of the rules would suggest, directly or indirectly, that I need to reveal the card before putting it into play, specifically as part of resolving the post-then effect?

 

I can see how "make choices" would be broader than "choose targets". Still, the quoted RRG entry only says that the first player needs to make choices, not that he needs to make [everything related to these choices] public knowlenge. Why can't the first player just announce that he intends to put a card into play, and set the chosen card aside, just like we do it with plots - why wouldn't this satisfy the rule from the quoted entry?

 

I guess the first player could put a dead character into play (another copy in the dead pile), see what his opponent did, announce his mistake, and try to put a different character into play. Revealing a character first would make sense then. But I really think this needs to be in the FAQ.

 

The process of "Initiating Abilities/Marshaling Cards" explained on page 10 of the RRG doesn't cover Resolving abilities (post-then effects and/or abilities initiated by your opponent), nor Ambushing.



#10
uBaHoB

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I guess the first player could put a dead character into play (another copy in the dead pile), see what his opponent did, announce his mistake, and try to put a different character into play. Revealing a character first would make sense then. But I really think this needs to be in the FAQ.

 

People are vigilant about that, if nothing else. Also if you retract your choice than they have the option to.



#11
NikolaP

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Careful here. All "When Revealed" effects on all plots are resolved, then Reactions to revealing plots can be triggered (no matter when a given the plot's "When Revealed" text resolved). However, reactions to triggering conditions created by the "When Revealed" effect itself would be triggered immediately after resolving the given "When Revealed."

 

Let me see if I got this. So, Bitterbridge's Reaction could be triggered after all When revealed effects resolve (since we don't have plot cycling yet all plots are resolved one after the other), but if let's say I have reaction to character leaving play, and Marched to The Wall's When revealed is resolved first, that Reaction should be triggered before next When revealed? 

I hope this sentence makes sense to you. :)



#12
Khudzlin

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It does, and it's correct.


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