43 replies to this topic

[TassLehoff]

Sorry for the offtopic, but what do you mean that 2nd edition rules killed melee?

 

In first edition, we have real support title, if you support a player who's unnop a challenge you can defend for him.

There is also many card with cross table effect, and plot with deal effect.

Now it's a joust with 4 players...

 

 

 

What can we here in America do to help out our French allies again?  Let's not start waiving the white flag yet.  When is your event?  Is there still time to get a kit shipped? Can we do a letter writing campaign or something?

 

One of the more unfortunate parts of this is that it seems melee is more well liked in Euro than in USA, but USA got prizes for it anyway.

 

Thanks for your support, our event will be the 19 to 21 August.

Normaly we can get the joust kit in time, but with only playmats for a top8 on a tourney with more than 150 players...

 

For the moment FFG we don't have the joust kit so they can ship the melee kit in the same time if they want.

[YEEZUS]

Is there melee at Gencon?  If I do well and get extra prizes perhaps some of those could make their way overseas

[LoneElfRanger]

Is there melee at Gencon?  If I do well and get extra prizes perhaps some of those could make their way overseas

Yes, there's a Melee event at Gen Con. Not sure what the prizes are, but the information is probably out there.

[TassLehoff]

Yes there is a melee side at Gencon.

It's kind to trying helping us, but it's the FFG job to send us gift (not realy a gift because we pay the full price of the kit), not your's

[TassLehoff]

Yes there is a melee side at Gencon.

It's kind to trying helping us, but it's the FFG job to send us gift (not realy a gift because we pay the full price of the kit), not your's

[xchan]

In first edition, we have real support title, if you support a player who's unnop a challenge you can defend for him.

There is also many card with cross table effect, and plot with deal effect.

Now it's a joust with 4 players..

 

I see! That was a cool feature then! Any reason why they removed it on 2nd Edition? Did it cause some kind of collusion?

 

Regarding the other complain, I think it's more due to the lack of cards than anything else. There are certain cards already that work better for melee; although seeing how are they treating the melee in the competitive tournaments, I'm affraid they might be the last ones. Which would be a shame, as I love melee.

[TassLehoff]

And you know, when we said it's the french national, don't think Edge (our local retailer/translator) or Asmodee organise our national, it's completly false.

 

We (me an Katagena) organise the event by ourself, we buy the kit from Edge at full price and Edge pay the flight to the world championship for the (now, before overall) joust champion.

 

We make gift for all players, this years there will be one custom playmat by player, 2 real dice token and some other stuff.

 

It's a lot of work and we are tired to be **** by FFG. For your information the last years we give the ticket to world championship to the overall champion, but this year without overall we need to send both joust and melee champion, so we gather money to pay the travel for the melee champion (because we are sur ffg/edge/asmodde don't want to pay antoher travel).

Now we learn melee is a side, no melee national champion, and no way to send the melee champion to world cahmpionship because it's a side... So we can pay the travel to the melee champion, but he can't participate at world championship...

 

Sorry for my english

[America]

I'm not "tell a country what to do" guy, but maybe you guys could kick in a few extra Francs and use that money to send the winner to Worlds. Also, with the extra funds, you could make your own playmats.

[saintsup]

I'm not "tell a country what to do" guy, but maybe you guys could kick in a few extra Francs and use that money to send the winner to Worlds. Also, with the extra funds, you could make your own playmats.

You really don't know there are no ´Francs' anymore for more than ten years ?

[Khudzlin]

The only European country still using Francs is Switzerland... Also, you seemed to have overlooked that Worlds is completely booked: the problem is not paying travel to Worlds for the Melee champion, it's that there's no spot reserved for them at Worlds.

[Timmy]

I'm not "tell a country what to do" guy, but maybe you guys could kick in a few extra Francs and use that money to send the winner to Worlds. Also, with the extra funds, you could make your own playmats.

 

As Khudzlin said, the problem is not to pay the travel for the melee champion : this is already granted.

The two real problems are actually :

1/ will the french melee champion be given a spot reserved for worlds and by this. We are not even begging for a bye, but just the single opportunity to register and participate at first ? It doesn't seem right to pay for a plane ticket for a champion without being sure this champion will be able to defend our colours.

 

2/ how can FFG explain / justify that US national side melee event is granted it's own promo Kit and not others melee nationals. Attendance ? Come on !

 

 

We are all thrones lovers, the situation is actually the following : more than 150 players already registered for the french national in august, 100 already signed in for the melee. Can we consider this as a "side event" ? For what it's worth, i am considering it a plain event, deserving its own kit and a spot granted for registering the champion to worlds.

 

 

And to be more than complete : every single player attending the french nationals will get his own playmat. this is clearly not a matter of money any more. Every single player will get a nice welcome package. But we still need a couple of things from FFG to properly crown our own melee champion

 

 

One last thing : I have read that north america regional champions do have a spot reserved for Worlds. Why do European / Asian Regional winners are not getting their own ?

[America]

Forgive me trying to solve your melee problems.

Hot take - if this thread won't take down competitive melee, I don't know what will

[Oldachab]

We love that game in Europe, and both melee and Joust.

 

We love Martin's novels and their "taste"

 

And absolutely nothing is nearer to Martin's work than the Melee. At a melee table you can argu/lie/betray/kill/make oher kill each other...

 

FFG please, don't burry Melee alive. It's living great in Europe. WE really love this game, but we feel betrayed.

[marduk]

I'd just like to say that the players who expressed their concern in this thread do not represent Europe as a whole. The melee format isn't very popular in Europe and it would be deceiving to pretend that there is a continent-wide outrage. Most people over here don't care about melee at all. I know this sounds harsh, but that's the truth.

 

With that said, I don’t see why FFG wouldn’t send some prizes for the French Melee Championship. What’s the worst thing that could happen? At worst, there won’t be an increase in players and at best more people will show up to the event and contribute to the success of the game.

Although I can understand why there would be no entry ticket for Worlds if FFG only holds a Melee tournament as a side event... that would just be silly.

[Mog]

Marduk, yes it's a silly thing melee being a side. You don't sell a game, write that the game is made for 2+ players and make melee a side event.
And yes Europe is not as fond of melee as we French, but they play it. Many event of the european circuit has melee on schedule.
And i think i got something here. Melee rules in 2nd ed was made for people who don't like it to play it, but they don't... And the ones who liked it, cannot play it like before. But they play it anyway and then FFG say : Don't play it, or just for fun you know.
I know we have a crush for melee in France but being objective here, FFG does everything wrong for the format to live on.

Sorry for my english...
Omelette du fromage

[Sulpures]

Feel sorry for your hard work, dude. FFG really does an awful job in relies and supports.

[fruszu]

Good luck with your melee French Nationals.

I love that format. The most "game" memories I have from Thrones are melee ones. We in Poland are referring to the past melee plays, jokes, sentences all the time. I also have a really warm feelings for the Melee at Stahleck. And the French players are among the best ones I met at the Melee tables (both, in competitive and social way). I think the AGoT in a multiplayer format offers you such a wide array of emotions, that it would be just sad to loose it. And it requires a great competitive player skill too. 

 

What I don't like is that I really don't know, if Melee is supported by the FFG or not (the FFG prize support is the other thing, the Gods of SWAG cries when they see almost the same playmats once again and really poor kits with official prizes). I don't think dividing the community for the Joust players, Melee ones, Overall lovers, etc. is a good thing. I think we all play The Only Game That Matters because we love the game design, the story behind it, and most important: the people we meet. I don't really think of the AGoT as the Melee or Joust game - I understand the differences and I want to play them both. Hope to see most of you guys on Fracas and Stahleck.

[Scottie]

Marduk, yes it's a silly thing melee being a side. You don't sell a game, write that the game is made for 2+ players and make melee a side event.
And yes Europe is not as fond of melee as we French, but they play it. Many event of the european circuit has melee on schedule.
And i think i got something here. Melee rules in 2nd ed was made for people who don't like it to play it, but they don't... And the ones who liked it, cannot play it like before. But they play it anyway and then FFG say : Don't play it, or just for fun you know.
I know we have a crush for melee in France but being objective here, FFG does everything wrong for the format to live on.

Sorry for my english...
Omelette du fromage

The player count on box doesn't mean anything as far as seperate OP system is concerned. The box gaureentees no tournament system at all.

I fully understand why FFG doesn't want to support Melee, tournament wise, as anything but a side event. It removes expectations in regards to how balanced melee is and how the tournament format is structured. From what I know Melee has been a thorn in FFGs side when it comes to making it work in a tournament format. If they don't want to put in the effort to do so, then calling it a side event is just being accurate.

What I don't support is providing better OP support for Melee in one country but not another. If they had a prize kit for Melee at one Nationals it should be available at other ones.

[Timmy]

Scottie :

 

Then why selling this game as a multiplayer game ? Why including melee rules and cards inside the core box instead of making them an "alternative" format  taking the form of a downloadble PDF on FFG website.

 

Truly, this is hard to understand. Is it a 2 players games or a multiplayer game ? I do believe, for what's it worth, it is both, but FFG does nothing to make it so. And how can a company sell a game for 2 to 4 players without at no point supporting the OP as much as for 2 players. Don't tell me this is not a competitive game. Frankly said, given the regularty of melee players, we can't agree on that point. the game is different, i concede that point, but this is no way means the melee format is not competitive. The competitiont merely focuses on different aspects of the games.

 

100 % agreed with you on your second part

[Scottie]

It is both a 2 player and multiplayer game, but that doesn't mean FFG is at all inclined to support OP for both or even either format. Companies sell games all of the time with absolutely no OP support, tournaments are after all not the only place people play games. Plenty of games only support OP for certain configurations of players, despite the game being otherwise playable for different configurations. Even look at some of FFGs own line. Imperial Assault is marketed for between 2-5 players, and yet it's OP only supports an alternative 1v1 format. Just because a game has rules to allow a certain format does not mean it will be an equally supported format from an OP perspective. Does the game come with functional rules that allow it to be played with the advertised number of players? If yes then then nothing has been falsely advertised.

I'm not sure why you are going on about whether Melee can be competitive or not, as I said not word one on that subject. I get that you are unhappy that FFG is not supporting Melee as it is Joust, but I would appreciate not having words put in my mouth. I in no way stated to you that I did not consider Melee competitive.

FFG does not seem inclined to suport Melee in the same manner as Joust when it comes to OP. I can see why as Melee introduces a number of other variables that make creating and executing OP more difficult then Joust. Whether you consider Melee play competitively or not, this you can't deny. It is a harder format to balance, it is a harder format to structure and score, and it is certainly a format that creates situations that are difficult to govern within player etiquette rules. Those are all reasons that could cause FFG to not want to put forth the effort required to support Melee as they do Joust. Thus it becomes a side event, not equal to Joust in there view, and ultimately not requiring the effort from them that they would otherwise be expected to give.