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Sell me on this Game


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18 replies to this topic

#1
Ironswimsuit

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I'm torn on this game.  I like the prospect of a new LCG. LotR was disappointing, so the chance to get a newer game system is appealing. I like the idea of a character driven game with ways to enhance the characters. MECCG had this on a party level. The idea of doing this over the course of several games kinda turns me off. Board game campaigns tend to bore me.  The concept of meet target number to advance game is fine, but I don't know about the chaos bag. Overcommit to advance part of game feels less attractive.  I like horror, but I can only handle Lovecraft in small doses. I really don't understand his lasting popularity outside of people enjoying the idea of Lovecraft stories more than the stories themselves.  I'm also more of a kinesthetic learner, so the articles aren't doing much for me right now.

 

What are the big reasons you all are getting into the game. How will you go about introducing it to potential players?

 

Thanks,



#2
dboeren

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I have limited time to play games away from home, so I'm interested in solo play LCGs.  LotR didn't really wow me but I feel like FFG has learned a lot and making many improvements in this game.  I like the idea of campaign play and evolving the deck including having to put in the bad cards.  While a bag of tokens is physically more cumbersome than a die, it allows so many more cool mechanics that I feel it's good move.  You can add/remove tokens from the bag.  You can lock tokens to prevent them from going back in the bag.  You can redraw omitting a token and then put it back in the bag.  You can draw multiples and pick one.  All things that don't work well with dice.

 

I'm not planning on introducing it to people much as my main goal is for solo play.

 

I like the theme and having a single Investigator instead of 3x heroes in LotR, taking the emphasis away from hero combos and having more control over faction mixing.  I also like custom cards for each Investigator (like a mini version of Conquest's sets), giving them extra theme, although I'd have preferred a few more cards - hopefully this is compensated for with the smaller decks.

 

Smaller decks are such a huge benefit compared to LotR where the player card pool grows so slowly due to half of each pack being the quest cards.  Now we get player cards 50% faster which is great if you're into deck design.  Also, the quest card sets are much better in this game as they are more tightly themed and there are more small sets instead of a few large ones.

 

Just signs of learned lessons all over the place, plus the campaign stuff is all new and will open up even more room for cool quests which have already been improving in LotR.

 

So yeah, very high expectations for this one but with my usual caveat that it takes a full year to really tell how a new LCG is going to end up because the core doesn't have enough card pool to give a good feeling for it.  Maybe that's slightly different with a co-op LCG though?


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#3
MagnusArcanis

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The rough, basic pitch:

Arkham Horror is a lovecraftian themed co-op adventure crawl-style(ish) board+card game where the decisions you make affect the outcome of the scenario and impacts the following scenarios in small campaigns that roughly contain 9-ish individual stages. During which their characters (character’s deck) advance not only in story, but for better or worse, add and/or upgrade cards in their deck.



For me, that sounds like a good time and worth checking out. It seems to be packaging things in a unique way that you don’t often/ever experience with other games. So cross comparing with existing titles is difficult.



Normally I’d ask you what you didn’t like about lotr, but this game intends to grant you a completely different experience. So I suggest treating it as such.



Upgrading your character’s deck over several games in a board game style campaign being a turn off for you is rough thing to sell around. I could spew some things at you like… Technically you don’t need to that as the quests are supposedly going to be playable individually, also support players coming in with fresh decks, and you always have the option of not spending your XP. Which is frankly pretty impressive, not sure how they’re going pull all that off. Still, a lot of this stuff will be decided by the play group you’re in. If you don’t have a group, then you can play it however you want. Still, those elements you dislike are some of the game’s most defining features. So this may not be the game for you.



That being said, things like overcommit to advance could be an issue, but seems like some classes if not entire strategies of the game will be around skill tests (ie allowing you to modify your result after you pull from the bag). So, like me, you’ll probably find those classes/strats more to your liking. So I wouldn’t worry about it. Besides, I imagine the game will be mostly balanced towards taking a risk on pulls. Otherwise… not much point to them.



As for lovecraft, I think you hit the nail on the head. It’s not the particular stories that drive its lasting popularity, but their concept. Which, I certainly don’t expect us to be adventuring through lovecraft books, but adventures in a world based on lovecraftian concepts. Which is far more intriguing to my anyway.



The big reasons for me getting into this are…

- I enjoy co-op games. Especially co-op card games. There are so few co-op card games, much less ones I can actually sink my teeth into. So hoping this will be one of those games.

- This looks to be a campaign game I can enjoy with a regular group/friend(s). Which hasn’t been always been an easy task.

- (there’s also that small chance that some of my or other champion art could get re-used… would be amazing and fun to see)

- Decent chance I’ll get to re-use/continue to use some of the Cthulhu LCG swag and game upgrades from other games.

- Perhaps most importantly, I have a high regard for the people in charge of this game. A good chunk of them come from the best parts of Lord of the Rings, a game that continues to surprise me with their quest design. Say what you will about the game itself, but some of the game’s designs that came out of that sandbox are impressive. Now they’re basically being given their own, brand new sandbox to play in… I can’t wait to see what they’ll do with it.



The theme is great and all but is secondary to me. I could take or leave campaign mode too, but I do enjoy the “acquire stuff and level up” aspect of gaming and I wish that was done more in LoTR. And I know I’m going to have a love/hate relationship with that Bag of

Still, more than enough for me to give it a shot.
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#4
Minute

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Tentacles
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#5
Vlad3theImpaler

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I'm torn on this game.  I like the prospect of a new LCG. LotR was disappointing, so the chance to get a newer game system is appealing. I like the idea of a character driven game with ways to enhance the characters. MECCG had this on a party level. The idea of doing this over the course of several games kinda turns me off. Board game campaigns tend to bore me.  The concept of meet target number to advance game is fine, but I don't know about the chaos bag. Overcommit to advance part of game feels less attractive.  I like horror, but I can only handle Lovecraft in small doses. I really don't understand his lasting popularity outside of people enjoying the idea of Lovecraft stories more than the stories themselves.  I'm also more of a kinesthetic learner, so the articles aren't doing much for me right now.

 

What are the big reasons you all are getting into the game. How will you go about introducing it to potential players?

 

Thanks,

Honestly, if you aren't interested in the mechanics or the theme, maybe this just isn't the game for you.  If you're not interested in Lovecraftian horror, campaign games, or the way skills work with the chaos bag (which I have no idea why it seems to be such a turn-off for so many people) I'm not really sure what the game has to offer you. 

 

What specifically did you find disappointing about the LotR lcg?

 

As for Lovecraft, I'm a pretty big fan of his works, not just the idea of them.  I think several of his works that don't get talked about as much are actually some of the best.  The Outsider and the The Curse of Yig are a couple particularly good ones.


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#6
ErsatzNihilist

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I'm with Vlad on two things:-

 

1. This game probably isn't going to be worth the money for you.

 

2. The Outsider is an amazing Lovecraft story. Probably my favourite.


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#7
Ironswimsuit

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The two aspects of LotR LCG I didn't like when I played were the feast or famine feeling of resource gathering/management and combat. My games generally tended to be win big or lose hard.

 

The reason the chaos bag could be a turn off is the idea of pointlessly high variance. Card gamers like to reduce chance as much as possible to make decks which can at least semi-consistently meet their goal. The chaos bag feels like a big middle finger to this key aspect of card gaming, especially when half of the card game experience is building decks. This is fine in a board game. Arkham LCG is a board game disguised as a card game, perhaps disguised too well.

 

Maybe the campaign aspect won't be so bad since I hear the deck sizes are smaller. Tweaking decks between games is fun until analysis paralysis sets in and slows everything down. If I liked solo play, I could control this, but I like co-ops with other people present.

 

The Outsider is the one story I can think of that doesn't follow the usual Lovecraft formula. It's great. I got bored with his other stuff since it's all basically the same. The generally depressing tone of all the stories makes me wonder where the fun comes from, but that's just my normal reaction to grimdark. Fine in small doses.



#8
dboeren

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In a competitive LCG, your opponent is the source of unexpected problems.  I think you would find that if a co-op LCG had too little variance it would quickly become boring.  LotR uses an unknown amount of threat coming off the deck in the questing stage and unexpected shadow effects in the combat stage as its source of variance.  This game uses a token selection.  I'm not sure we can conclude yet that one is higher variance than the other.  What we do know is that you can plan more for Arkham Horror because LotR has different shadow effects and threat numbers with every quest set so these can change considerably from one game to another.  The chaos bag contents can change too but not as much of a full switch.  In return, you can alter the bag independent from the quest cards and have mechanics to interact with its contents.  In that sense, Arkham Horror is lower variance from a deck design point of view, but may or may not be during actual play.

 

Still, games are personal preferences.  If you don't like it, then you don't like it no matter how good others think it is.  Best I can offer is that you give it a try playing someone else's copy when it comes out and see what you think.


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#9
GreatGopher

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The two aspects of LotR LCG I didn't like when I played were the feast or famine feeling of resource gathering/management and combat. My games generally tended to be win big or lose hard.

 

The reason the chaos bag could be a turn off is the idea of pointlessly high variance. Card gamers like to reduce chance as much as possible to make decks which can at least semi-consistently meet their goal. The chaos bag feels like a big middle finger to this key aspect of card gaming, especially when half of the card game experience is building decks. This is fine in a board game. Arkham LCG is a board game disguised as a card game, perhaps disguised too well.

 

Maybe the campaign aspect won't be so bad since I hear the deck sizes are smaller. Tweaking decks between games is fun until analysis paralysis sets in and slows everything down. If I liked solo play, I could control this, but I like co-ops with other people present.

 

The Outsider is the one story I can think of that doesn't follow the usual Lovecraft formula. It's great. I got bored with his other stuff since it's all basically the same. The generally depressing tone of all the stories makes me wonder where the fun comes from, but that's just my normal reaction to grimdark. Fine in small doses.

 

Since I'll probably end up as the one providing all the cards, my plan for cooperative deck-building in between scenarios will be to provide a small "shop" of 15-20 cards per player (rather than letting them access the whole damn collection). It should be enough to let everyone feel like they're personally impacting their experience without taking an hour per round.

 

I was a little on the fence about the chaos bag as well, mostly for the reasons you mentioned. I understand that we need some random factor preventing challenges from being simple math, but on the other hand it will feel bad to lose a close campaign due to an "auto-fail" tentacle. On the other other hand, there are definitely some cool card designs out there involving chaos token interaction. I guess we'll just have to see how much control we feel like we have over challenge outcomes.

 

One thing's for sure - digging your hand slowly through a chaos bag and bracing yourself as you feel the token that will decide your fate is absolutely going to be a more ominous and dramatic moment than rolling a die would be. I think that will help contribute to the horror immersion!

The two aspects of LotR LCG I didn't like when I played were the feast or famine feeling of resource gathering/management and combat. My games generally tended to be win big or lose hard.

 

The reason the chaos bag could be a turn off is the idea of pointlessly high variance. Card gamers like to reduce chance as much as possible to make decks which can at least semi-consistently meet their goal. The chaos bag feels like a big middle finger to this key aspect of card gaming, especially when half of the card game experience is building decks. This is fine in a board game. Arkham LCG is a board game disguised as a card game, perhaps disguised too well.

 

Maybe the campaign aspect won't be so bad since I hear the deck sizes are smaller. Tweaking decks between games is fun until analysis paralysis sets in and slows everything down. If I liked solo play, I could control this, but I like co-ops with other people present.

 

The Outsider is the one story I can think of that doesn't follow the usual Lovecraft formula. It's great. I got bored with his other stuff since it's all basically the same. The generally depressing tone of all the stories makes me wonder where the fun comes from, but that's just my normal reaction to grimdark. Fine in small doses.

 

Since I'll probably end up as the one providing all the cards, my plan for cooperative deck-building in between scenarios will be to provide a small "shop" of 15-20 cards per player (rather than letting them access the whole damn collection). It should be enough to let everyone feel like they're personally impacting their experience without taking an hour per round.

 

I was a little on the fence about the chaos bag as well, mostly for the reasons you mentioned. I think it will come down to whether or not our losses feel 



#10
HappyDD

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The Outsider is the one story I can think of that doesn't follow the usual Lovecraft formula. It's great. I got bored with his other stuff since it's all basically the same...

Do you mean tone, flowery language that fails to make a punchy point half the time, dated terms that were old when he wrote them down? 

 

Or do you mean content? I'd say the former is true, the later is a very generous interpretation of "the same". 

 

Either way, Lovercraft is just the window dressing. From what I can tell this system could have used any sort of context, horror or otherwise, but I understand theme matters. 



#11
Toqtamish

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I'm getting it for the solo play options. I really don't care for Lovecraft's writing and the only way I have been absorbing any of it is with the HP Lovecraft Literary podcast and the FFG Arkham Horror books. 



#12
Minute

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One thing's for sure - digging your hand slowly through a chaos bag and bracing yourself as you feel the token that will decide your fate is absolutely going to be a more ominous and dramatic moment than rolling a die would be. I think that will help contribute to the horror immersion!


Now I really want a custom chaos bag with creepy **** in it. Something to make the inside moist, maybe with fake eyeballs and stuff.
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#13
Carthoris

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Now I really want a custom chaos bag with creepy **** in it. Something to make the inside moist, maybe with fake eyeballs and stuff.

 

I think I can imagine how to design this: Rubber worms (fish lures?) sewn into the bag inside, so that as you reach in, you're grabbing tokens from among tentacles. 



#14
mic

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just a question, will you need to buy more than one core copy of this game? thanks



#15
Libor

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It was comfirmed, that 2 copies will be enought to have a full play set.

 

But I will for sure wait how necessary it will be when first deluxe will be here so soon with five more investigators. I have no problem with having 3 core sets of other games but I never purchased second copy of Lord of the Rings due to the great amount of encounter cards that will be completely wasted. It will be the same here, I won´t buy second copy of both scenarios for full price if I´ll need only few investigator cards. I will simply proxy what I will need.

 

For the first question - as a lot of others I think about this game simply because I like card games and this one offers the possibility to play solo. Another reason is I play Lord of the Rings, like that game very much and believe that this one will be as great as LotR.


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#16
dboeren

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I think I can imagine how to design this: Rubber worms (fish lures?) sewn into the bag inside, so that as you reach in, you're grabbing tokens from among tentacles. 

 

At Halloween they sell all sorts of little plastic or rubber spiders, bats, skulls, snakes, eyeballs, etc...



#17
DarthMonkey

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I tried LoTR LCG and didn't get into it.

 

The main thing I like about Arkham over Rings, is the change from group of heroes to single character. Having a group of characters per player adds a disconnect from the action, for me. Having once ongoing character per player, helps for me to make it more about the players working through the stories and fighting to survive.

 

The blurring between LCG and RPG element.



#18
Skelton

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I'm a huge fan of Lovecraft, the Cthulhu mythos and generally anything that's a little darker in tone so this is an easy pick up for me. I loved the co-op nature of LotR but didn't care too much for the source material so this is an easy sell for me. I think one of the biggest draws is the campaign. having what is essentially a Call of Cthulhu rpg in the form of cards is a huge boon, even if it is simplified version of the Chaosium game. Finding players for that was hard but finding them for this is a cake walk.



#19
Tragic

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I love the LoTR LCG..... but I play it completely as a solo game. In fact I rarely play with cards, I play mostly on LackeyCCG (but I still own a large collection). You know how you mum plays solitaire in windows all the time? Well I'm the dad always playing LoTR in LackeyCCG lol... I've been hanging for another Solo LCG..

 

Also, and let me be clear here, I HATE Lord of the Rings. I mean I read the books when I was like 10 like everyone on the planet but I wasn't super impressed and I think the films are mediocre at best and actually most of them are pretty terrible. I get the cultural significance of Tolkiens work, but I am just not into it.

 

That gives you an idea of how good the solo game is for LoTR. The theme has zero interest for me and I still play it all the time. AHlcg  theme on the other hand is so in my wheel house it could have been my idea, in fact if this site had a search you would be able to find me talking about a CoC Solo game in the style of LoTR ehehe.

 

Basically I am saying that this idea of a fancy solitaire for card game fans is proven to be extremely good... and this is lovecraftian horror... so yeah... a big draw I think and even if you are not into lovecraft stuff, like LoTR it could be good enough regardless.