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Burglary with no clues


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7 replies to this topic

#1
Wigg

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Since Arkham Horror doesn't have a Rules forum yet I hope this is the right place to ask.

"Burglary:  -->:  Exhaust Burglary: Investigate. If you succeed, instead of discovering clues, gain 3 resources."

The question is, can you use Burglary to try and gain 3 resources in a room that has no clues, such as the Hallyway?  Can you take an Investigate action in a room with no clues?

 

The arrow on Burglary indicates that it is a Triggered Ability.  In the RRG, it says:

"A triggered ability can only be initiated if its effect has the potential to change the game state, and its cost (if any) has the potential to be paid in full, taking active cost modifiers into account. This potential is assessed without taking into account the consequences of the cost payment or any other ability interactions."

Based on this passage I'm tempted to say that no you cannot, as there is no clues so a successful Investigation would not change the game state.

Any thoughts?

 

 



#2
dboeren

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You succeeded, so you met the trigger condition.  Gaining 3 resources does change the game state.  Looks fine to me.



#3
mplain

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What if it's Flashlight or Rite of Seeking instead of Burglary?



#4
Gaffa

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What if it's Flashlight or Rite of Seeking instead of Burglary?

 

What if it is? Flashlight just lowers the Shroud of a room by 2, and then gives you an Investigate. Investigating a room with zero clues gives you zero clues you can find.

 

Rite of Seeking lets you discover 1 additional clue if successful. You can't discover clues that aren't there. Again, nothing happens, beyond wasting the charges of your Flashlight or Rite of Seeking.

 

And, no, you can't use those with Burglarly, because all three of those cards require their own specific action to use, so they don't interact in any way.



#5
Minute

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What if it is? Flashlight just lowers the Shroud of a room by 2, and then gives you an Investigate. Investigating a room with zero clues gives you zero clues you can find.

 

Rite of Seeking lets you discover 1 additional clue if successful. You can't discover clues that aren't there. Again, nothing happens, beyond wasting the charges of your Flashlight or Rite of Seeking.

 

And, no, you can't use those with Burglarly, because all three of those cards require their own specific action to use, so they don't interact in any way.

It's not clear to me that you can use either of those abilities due to the fact that triggered abilities can only be initiated if its effect has the potential to change the game state.  I'm not sure if those would count if there are no clues present.

 

I can't find anything that says you can't use an action that won't change the game state though.



#6
Gaffa

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That was my question, wondering why mplain even brought them up. They have nothing to do with Wigg's question, and don't let you generate clues out of nothing.

 

You can still use them though, as you can always do an Investigation, and the board state is changing because they're losing charges.



#7
Minute

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That was my question, wondering why mplain even brought them up. They have nothing to do with Wigg's question, and don't let you generate clues out of nothing.
 
You can still use them though, as you can always do an Investigation, and the board state is changing because they're losing charges.

. That is part of the cost. The card's effect must change the board state. The cost is not part of the effect.

#8
mplain

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Matt (lead designer) confirmed that you can always perform an Investigate action or use an ability with an Investigate action designator even if there are no clues on your location. He said it doesn't conflict with the rule about change of game state, without going into specifics.