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Padme's special ability


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14 replies to this topic

#1
alduc

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I might be slow on the uptake, but Padme's special ability confuses me. It reads:

 

"Discard the top card of an opponent’s deck or spend 1 resource to discard the top 2 cards of an opponent’s deck."

 

Why would I ever want to spend a resource, if I can mill a card from my opponent's deck to mill two additional cards? If it were "Discard the top card of your deck" I would understand, but as written I don't get it.

 

Can someone enlighten me?



#2
ZackyMidnight

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Discard one card off the top for free or
Discard two cards off the top for 1 resource.

If your win condition is decking the opponent then every little bit helps

#3
alduc

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Ok, that was really silly of me. I was reading the "or" as being between "Discard the top card of an opponent’s deck" and "spend 1 resource". I blame lack of sleep. :-)

 

Thanks.



#4
Asklepios

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Not to worry though, as Padme is truly worthless as a character. The problem with milling from the deck is that (unlike discarding from hand) you're not messing with your opponent's game in any meaningful way. The pace of this game is such that Padme-mill is basically a losing proposition.

 

If her ability was 3 cards by default, or 5 cards with a resource spent then she'd be usable. As it is, any character with 2 Discard on a die face is already better at milling than her.


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#5
Abyssalfury

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There's one major thing you're not considering there Asklepios - Discard essentially sets you a hard limit of 5 card maximum a turn. Even if you discard their entire hand every turn, they'll lose at the end of round 6. Padme gives you an option to accelerate that by going after the deck, and I think that's useful enough to at least consider. On top of that she does have that sweet, sweet Focus 2 that everyone loves Ackbar for, and she's a reasonably cheap Yellow option.

 

Now, not saying that's enough to make her amazing, but there is a little bit more to the mill than a straight comparison with Discard.



#6
Hakkor

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Actually, if you are able to discard a key upgrade or event from the opponents hand or deck, you can truly mess with his strategy. Every bit counts. Today, a lucky double discard left the opponent with 2 blasters and a rifle less on turn 1, leaving his deck with few damage dealing options left. I know that's very lucky, but a consistent discard or mill strategy can accomplish something similar on a regular basis. If you play it with Disarm and a character with a damage1-2 die on her side, you can also get rid of 1-2 pesky weapons or equipments that hit the table.

 

Not always great and allrounder like pure damage, but it's something to bear in mind.



#7
xRAVEx

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Just imagine discarding both opponent's holocrons B)



#8
Asklepios

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Exactly! Discard is way better than deck mill.

 

Even in an ideal situation, Padme is spending 2 resources to mill 4 cards off the deck, which achieves nothing but the mill.

 

I see what your'e saying, Abyssalfury, but practically speaking that isn't really an issue. The way the dice pan out, you're rarely discarding more than a few cards a turn, even with Dooku/Jabba. If Padme had one fewer special face, and one more Discard 2 face, she'd be immeasurably stronger. If both special faces were replaced by Discard 2, she'd be stronger still.



#9
Tacullu64

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Exactly! Discard is way better than deck mill.
 
Even in an ideal situation, Padme is spending 2 resources to mill 4 cards off the deck, which achieves nothing but the mill.
 
I see what your'e saying, Abyssalfury, but practically speaking that isn't really an issue. The way the dice pan out, you're rarely discarding more than a few cards a turn, even with Dooku/Jabba. If Padme had one fewer special face, and one more Discard 2 face, she'd be immeasurably stronger. If both special faces were replaced by Discard 2, she'd be stronger still.


That's why you give her a Thermal Detonator.

I've not played hero mill as it's not my style and the local meta hasn't embraced it so I haven't played against it either. Maybe that will change if it becomes a thing.

#10
Abyssalfury

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Exactly! Discard is way better than deck mill.

 

Even in an ideal situation, Padme is spending 2 resources to mill 4 cards off the deck, which achieves nothing but the mill.

 

I see what your'e saying, Abyssalfury, but practically speaking that isn't really an issue. The way the dice pan out, you're rarely discarding more than a few cards a turn, even with Dooku/Jabba. If Padme had one fewer special face, and one more Discard 2 face, she'd be immeasurably stronger. If both special faces were replaced by Discard 2, she'd be stronger still.

 

Sure, Padme would be better right now by turning her into Jabba. But they potentially fill a different niche - although I'd agree that Padme isn't really in a position to do it right now.

 

I was talking to a friend about mill, and he made the point that decks that plan to win by mill will generally want to discard 3 cards a turn from the opponents hand - assuming the opponent will want to play/discard at least two cards a turn themselves. The deck then basically has to survive until they time out the opponent, but there's no real way to push the clock further by discard. Milling the deck opens this up an option, but you're right - you've got to be discarding their hand first, and then mill starts to be become relevant once it starts to speed up the win condition. My impression is right now, Heroes probably can't do that reliably enough in most cases to be worth it. However, if things change, Padme may be worth it in a way she wouldn't be if she was straight discard. Of course, it's equally as likely we never see that, or she still ends up being too expensive (points/resource wise) for what she brings.



#11
ikeebear

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Sure, Padme would be better right now by turning her into Jabba. But they potentially fill a different niche - although I'd agree that Padme isn't really in a position to do it right now.

 

I was talking to a friend about mill, and he made the point that decks that plan to win by mill will generally want to discard 3 cards a turn from the opponents hand - assuming the opponent will want to play/discard at least two cards a turn themselves. The deck then basically has to survive until they time out the opponent, but there's no real way to push the clock further by discard. Milling the deck opens this up an option, but you're right - you've got to be discarding their hand first, and then mill starts to be become relevant once it starts to speed up the win condition. My impression is right now, Heroes probably can't do that reliably enough in most cases to be worth it. However, if things change, Padme may be worth it in a way she wouldn't be if she was straight discard. Of course, it's equally as likely we never see that, or she still ends up being too expensive (points/resource wise) for what she brings.

 

Your friend is wise.

 

Discard is undoubtedly tactically stronger, but that doesn't make milling from the deck bad if milling is your win condition (if not, then yeah Padme is mostly useless beyond that two focus side).

 

Padme's ability provides redundancy. In combination with discard effects or die sides (see the above comment about Thermal Detonator), she advances your strategy. Similar can be said for Patience. Between Padme and Patience, you could reasonably hope to accelerate your mill strategy by two rounds or more.

 

Padme and Patience also do one thing that discard effects cannot - ensure a mill win in spite of things like Starship Graveyard or Closing the Net that can recycle cards back into a deck.

 

Is the hero mill deck viable at this time? Probably not, but that could change with future releases.


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#12
Ywingscum

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One of the many decks I want to make is a Padme deck.  I only have 1 padme die, so it can't be elite.  Someone had mentioned a Padme, Rey, Ackbar deck.  I wonder if that is the best option to use padme as of right now?  Is Padme the weakest character in the game right now?  Every other character I look at I see a deck I want to make immediately, it's a lot tougher with Padme.



#13
ikeebear

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One of the many decks I want to make is a Padme deck.  I only have 1 padme die, so it can't be elite.  Someone had mentioned a Padme, Rey, Ackbar deck.  I wonder if that is the best option to use padme as of right now?  Is Padme the weakest character in the game right now?  Every other character I look at I see a deck I want to make immediately, it's a lot tougher with Padme.

 

I think the best reason to run blue in a Padme deck is to get access to Patience, which means trying to get as many dice as possible. That's the main reason you'd want elite Padme. 

 

With elite Padme + Trooper + Padawan, you get the same amount of double focus as with Padme + Ackbar + Rey, but you get an additional die and guardian protection ... as well as a one focus side on the Padawan.

 

I know you don't have the second Padme, but she should be one of the easiest (cheapest) characters to buy or trade for and I feel like the deck probably isn't worth building with it.



#14
Ywingscum

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I think the best reason to run blue in a Padme deck is to get access to Patience, which means trying to get as many dice as possible. That's the main reason you'd want elite Padme. 
 
With elite Padme + Trooper + Padawan, you get the same amount of double focus as with Padme + Ackbar + Rey, but you get an additional die and guardian protection ... as well as a one focus side on the Padawan.
 
I know you don't have the second Padme, but she should be one of the easiest (cheapest) characters to buy or trade for and I feel like the deck probably isn't worth building with it.


So I played a best of three again a 4 stormtrooper deck and won 2 games. Both wins I got to use my battlefield. Can you believe I didn't have Patience in my deck! I re read that card and was like oh man! That should have been the first card included. I had forgotten about it, and I made the deck over a cup of coffee Saturday morning.

I may eventually get a second padme die, I did use her special and the discard often. If felt grew to make my friend discard that last card, then try to survive to end of round. The game i lost I had played 2 second chances and still list. The ones I won were by slim margins.


A tier 1 deck would destroy me I think.

#15
ikeebear

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That's one of the big issues with mill. It can feel like you've won when you cleaned them out, but surviving that last turn can be difficult. I've heard many, many tales of mill decks losing after decking their opponent.

 

Still, it's fun and that's why we play games. I think it's fun that mill puts the fear into opponents and they go a little bit on tilt because the rules of the game change at that point.