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Next Spirit of the Rebellion spoiler


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21 replies to this topic

#1
sellout23

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Just wondering if any of the SW Destiny fan sites or podcasts will be previewing more Spirit of the Rebellion cards? I know with SW LCG, spoilers were trickled out about 2 months before release.

 

Any news would be appreciated. I am excite!



#2
Traxlenak

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Just wondering if any of the SW Destiny fan sites or podcasts will be previewing more Spirit of the Rebellion cards? I know with SW LCG, spoilers were trickled out about 2 months before release.

 

Any news would be appreciated. I am excite!

 

Hear hear!



#3
farsight

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Good timing!



#4
Asklepios

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Thanks for that!

 

Darth Vader
- Seriously high damage output, with downsides, but this is great as it supports a broader strategy of aggro/damage dealing.

Obi Wan
- 16/20 is very costly for a character that is intended to go down. Between Noble Sacrifice, Guardian ability, Heroism and Draw Attention there's a few ways to get damage focused to him, but say we go 1 dice Obi Wan, that's still only 14 points, so hard to know who to pair him with. Maybe eRey for mono-blue?

Rise Again
- 5 resources is too much, but I guess worth it for Palpatine and original Vader, as your entire game turns on them.

Carbon Freezing Chamber
- Love it! Great battlefield for slow / control decks. Notably can shut down Palpatine.

Palpatine
- Discussed previously, but I note the discussion suggests that his initiative roll is good, which it really isn't: 3.33 on average.



#5
ZackyMidnight

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Hm i dont think rise again costs too much. Basically throw a mind probe or something to a re roll turn 1 or 2 and get it into play for free and get 5 health back for 5 resources. Ou have to play around it a bit, but i think its going to see play especially as you said in palpatine decks

#6
Ywingscum

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I would think Palpatine would claim the battlefield more often the 2,3, even 4 character teams would? If I'm playing palpatine, and carbon freezing is the battlefield, I'll be sure to play faster.
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#7
Asklepios

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Yes, very good point. Going to be hard to be faster than Palpatine. Jango/Veers maybe a third of the time will be faster, aside from that everyone is generally going to be running several actions slower.

 

Of course, lets not forget that if you're running someone like Vader / Raider, it might be entirely sensible to trigger Vader, offload the melee damage, then claim without any further delay, which might be fast enough to stop Palpatine. After all, trading an activation of Raider now for halving Palpatine's dice next turn is totally worth it.



#8
Abyssalfury

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Palpatine claiming the battlefield early is going to result in him being dead very, very quickly. He's got a tiny health pool compared to other teams - he's not winning by trading shots. He's going to have to run a lot of defensive/control effects to stay alive, so while he'll be *able* to claim, doing it early feels like it's almost always going to be a potential issue for him, because 'oops, the aggro deck rerolled a few dice, got some damage, Palpatine loses half his health'.

 

Being able to cash out early and claim before he does is just going to screw him even more, but honestly, I'm pretty sure you don't need to be running specific counters to him. Right now I'm fairly sure he's unplayable competitively.



#9
Asklepios

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That was my initial assessment too, though in that interview there was a lot of confidence that the guy had been playtested extensively and balanced right.

 

I wonder how much of a thing it is that he deals his ability damage even when you don't roll damage on the dice. With no re-rolls, we're looking at a mean of 5 damage per turn, which is pretty solid for a turn's damage output, way better than Vader/Raider's 2.5 damage per turn average, and Vader/Raider is only 6 HP ahead of Palpatine. Of course, I know that Vader/Raider doesn't actually put out a mere 2.5 damage per turn, I'm just calling out the maths on an unmodified roll.



#10
ikeebear

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Rise Again could significantly help on the health front, but it feels like Emperor Palpatine is going to need some way to give him access to more dice for any real hope of realistic competitive play. That could be in the form of good, affordable upgrades that bring dice or in readying tricks (which would almost undoubtedly be too good).

 

If he's largely a guy with two character dice and a max of three upgrade dice, he's just going to be way too easy to control. It won't matter how great his dice are or the bonus burn he gets when he resolves them if they are frequently removed (or blanked, which will be extra frustrating, since it feels like he shouldn't have a blank side). Getting into a control-war isn't going to be good for him either, because it won't be a fair fight. He might have more control cards in his deck, but he will have more threats he'll need to control and those threats will mostly refresh each round. He'll run out of gas.

 

That kind of brings me back to thinking that EP 'Fast and Furious' aggro will maybe be his best option. He needs to defeat a character early in the second round and have started working on another guy. 'Live fast. Die young.' doesn't seem like it should be EP's motto. Haha.



#11
Asklepios

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As I said, playing devil's advocate here, as I made the same point on his first preview (dice removal = Palpatine negated), but let's think about the numbers.

 

Say the opponent spends a resource and an action each turn to remove one of Palpatine's dice. On a single die, he's still got the same damage output as 2 Vader dice. And while the opponent is spending resources on controlling Palpatine, the Palpatine player can just be spending his resources on adding to the aggro. Ultimately, it'll come down to a race to the finish line, with Palaptine moving faster, but the opponent having a shorter distance to cover.

 

It's also unrealistic to expect more than one die of Palpatine's to be controlled per turn, given the way actions resolve: in 2 actions Palpatine can roll and offload, and if he has initiative, that gives exactly ONE action to interfere. Let's not also forget that many dice removal cards rely on having dice rolled into the pool, so (barring Fett) may be too slow to be played against Palpatine. No use having "He doesn't like you" if you can't get dice rolled in time.

 

With no cards around, I'd note that 5 damage a turn plus initiative will kill 21 HP a lot faster than 2.5 damage per turn will kill 15 HP. Interference vs Palpatine will have a larger effect that interference vs other aggro decks, but control isn't free: playing control options means slowing your own aggro.

 

In the end, I think Palpatine is going to represent the benchmark which you have to beat. It'll be a deck that doesn't take a huge amount of skill, but which sets the maximum expected length of a game. It makes something like Padme Mill look dead silly, for example, with the average 7-8 turns that deck takes to achieve a mill even against a heavy card-playing deck ridiculously slow compared to the kill-speeds that Palpatine can achieve.

 

I suspect, actually, that Palpatine will be bad AND good for the game, reducing the number of viable deck shapes for competitive play, but forcing everyone to build and play tightly enough to beat him down.


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#12
OhThatGuyAgain

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Palpatine's average damage per die is 2.5, which is astronomically high.  However, his max damage is only 5, while every character around 20 points has a max damage output of around 6.  The key difference is that nearly half of Vader's initial dice rolls result in zero damage, while only 1/6 of a single die palpatine end up with zero damage.  Palpatine will win the race if both sides are preventing damage at a similar rate, but could be overwhelmed if the opponent rolls particularly well.  



#13
ikeebear

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Palpatine's average damage per die is 2.5, which is astronomically high.  However, his max damage is only 5, while every character around 20 points has a max damage output of around 6.  The key difference is that nearly half of Vader's initial dice rolls result in zero damage, while only 1/6 of a single die palpatine end up with zero damage.  Palpatine will win the race if both sides are preventing damage at a similar rate, but could be overwhelmed if the opponent rolls particularly well.  

 

I find the notion of playing Palpatine anything but elite to be borderline unfathomable. He's elite or bust, I think.

 

So the math (and I'm no whizz in this regard) is more realistically/practically max damage of 10 for Palpatine's two dice compared to max damage of 10 of any Awakenings set character combination ... and that's only if you count modified sides on characters like Rey and Bala-Tik. In addition to modified damage sides and mismatched damage types, a lot of these combinations include pay-for sides.

 

In addition to doing more damage, more quickly and more easily, Palpatine will generally do it much more consistently. His opponents will either have to generate addition damage-dealing dice quickly or have a strong control game.

 

I'm starting to think my initial assessment of Palpatine was too dismissive. Asklepios made a great point in that if you're spending resources and actions controlling Palpatine you're probably not generating enough of your own threats, which gives him more time. For Palpatine, time equals damage.

 

I experienced something like this in a tournament yesterday, in which a Jango Veers deck played by a nine-year-old was the only loss for my Kylo Dooku deck. He played a gun, rolled damage, I controlled a die or two, couldn't play my own gear. Next turn, he played a gun, rolled damage, I controlled a little, couldn't play much else. Repeat, until I ran out of control and he shredded my face.

 

Happy to be corrected on the above, but that's what it looks like to me.


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#14
Asklepios

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Palpatine's average damage per die is 2.5, which is astronomically high.  However, his max damage is only 5, while every character around 20 points has a max damage output of around 6.  The key difference is that nearly half of Vader's initial dice rolls result in zero damage, while only 1/6 of a single die palpatine end up with zero damage.  Palpatine will win the race if both sides are preventing damage at a similar rate, but could be overwhelmed if the opponent rolls particularly well.  

 

I don't think you can compare a 1 dice version of one character with a 2 dice version of another character based on points equivalence. Every character in the game looks more efficient in damage output as an elite version! It's be like saying Vader has low damage output, because at 16 cost and 1 dice he has so much less damage than Captain Phasma at 15 cost and 2 dice. 

 

It's about what you can field with 30 points, which is why I compared ePalpatine with eVader+Raider, and noted ePalpatine comes out way ahead, both in average damage AND spike damage.


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#15
sellout23

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Now we just need the big bad Yellow Villain to be spoiled and ill be all kinds of happy. Fingers crossed they let the Knights of Ren podcast spoil it and its a bounty hunter! 



#16
xRAVEx

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It's already well known, that there should be IG-88 in this set. 

So that's who you are looking for. 

But I'd like to see his stats and ability as well.



#17
sellout23

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It's already well known, that there should be IG-88 in this set. 

So that's who you are looking for. 

But I'd like to see his stats and ability as well.

 

I didn't know that. I'll take IG-88. Whats the source of this speculation?

thanks



#18
sellout23

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https://www.reddit.c...poiled_for_sor/

 

This looks to be the source. Awesome!!!



#19
OhThatGuyAgain

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I don't think you can compare a 1 dice version of one character with a 2 dice version of another character based on points equivalence. Every character in the game looks more efficient in damage output as an elite version! It's be like saying Vader has low damage output, because at 16 cost and 1 dice he has so much less damage than Captain Phasma at 15 cost and 2 dice. 

 

It's about what you can field with 30 points, which is why I compared ePalpatine with eVader+Raider, and noted ePalpatine comes out way ahead, both in average damage AND spike damage.

 

I don't see any reason you can't compare characters of roughly equal cost.  It's a fact that a single die Vader has a lower damage output than ePhasma if you're just looking at their character dice (5/6 vs 6/6 expected damage).  

 

Vader brings other advantages, like more health, access to powerful and synergistic Blue Villain cards, and a guaranteed discard opposed to a 2/6 expected random discard.  



#20
ikeebear

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I don't see any reason you can't compare characters of roughly equal cost.  It's a fact that a single die Vader has a lower damage output than ePhasma if you're just looking at their character dice (5/6 vs 6/6 expected damage).  

 

Vader brings other advantages, like more health, access to powerful and synergistic Blue Villain cards, and a guaranteed discard opposed to a 2/6 expected random discard.  

 

You certainly can make that comparison, but it won't necessarily reflect what happens in a game. The extra eight or so health and maybe access to another colour doesn't really outweigh (in my view) a second Palpatine die and increased chance to trigger that bonkers effect. That's why I think Palpatine's elite or bust. 

 

I think it's a much more valid comparison to make with Vader, since there's an opportunity cost with running him. You could conceivably play a different character (or two) in his slot and get more dice for the same cost. 

 

But you play Palpatine or you don't. You don't ponder a Palpatine deck and wonder 'Would I be better off playing three/four Stormtroopers instead?' That's why I compared two of his dice to any current three or four dice combinations.