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The White Shadows

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Best Answer mplain , 13 April 2017 - 11:03 PM

Got an answer from Daniel. First, my questions:

 

Hello Daniel!
 
I've got several rules questions about the new plot The White Shadows:
 
1. Blanked characters lose their Traits, right? That's not a misprint or anything?
 
2. How does Craster's immunity interact with this plot? Does Craster enter play already blanked, or does he enter play and the plot's "While that character is in play..." effect fails to affect him? Or does the first player decide the order of application of constant effects?
 
3. If an opponent's Davos/Benjen is killed and his interrupt is triggered, will the game be able to find him in the opponent's hand/deck? I assume not, but we need an official FAQ entry for that interaction, right?
 
4. If a character is killed at the end of the phase (e.g. by Tears of Lys), will be resurrected and then immediately placed into its owner's dead pile? Or how does "until the end of the phase" delayed effects work with abilities that trigger outside of any phase?
 
Thanks Daniel! :)
 
Daniel's answer:

 

Hello,
 
1. Yes, this plot blanks traits.
 
2. Craster can be put into play, and will be blanked. While he is in the dead pile, he is out of play and his immunity is not active. The lasting effect that banks him while in play (as well as the delayed effect that puts him into the dead pile) is created simultaneously with the effect that puts him into play.  Therefore, he enters play with a pre-existing lasting effect on him, invoking the rule: “If a card gains immunity to an effect, pre-existing lasting effects that have been applied to the card are not removed”(RRG p.9). So The White Shadows’ lasting effect blanks him, and he is killed at the end of the phase.
 
3. A FAQ entry on this topic is forthcoming, which will go into more detail. The gist of it is: no, the plot cannot return a character from an opponent’s hand or deck.
 
4. Yes. Because White Shadows has an “at the end of the phase” delayed effect, if it were to put a character into play at the end of the phase, the delayed effect would immediately resolve and return the character to the dead pile. 
 
Thanks!
Danny Schaefer
LCG Developer
Fantasy Flight Games
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#21
wordsmith

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Perhaps someone could dig throught the forum for a relevant topic with ktom's explanation.

I went through all the "Rules questions" and I found this topic which confirms you are correct:

http://www.cardgamed...ads-sell-sword/

 

It's also worth noting that since the Crone places the character in the dead pile from the discard pile, the Sellsword was never "in play" during that interaction. So even if placing in the dead pile counted the same as killing (it doesn't, as mplain says), you still couldn't get the 2 gold because you can't trigger his ability when he's not in play.

 

Btw is there some new info on this topic?



#22
mplain

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Unfortunately no, Daniel has been silent on this particular topic.



#23
mplain

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✓  Best Answer

Got an answer from Daniel. First, my questions:

 

Hello Daniel!
 
I've got several rules questions about the new plot The White Shadows:
 
1. Blanked characters lose their Traits, right? That's not a misprint or anything?
 
2. How does Craster's immunity interact with this plot? Does Craster enter play already blanked, or does he enter play and the plot's "While that character is in play..." effect fails to affect him? Or does the first player decide the order of application of constant effects?
 
3. If an opponent's Davos/Benjen is killed and his interrupt is triggered, will the game be able to find him in the opponent's hand/deck? I assume not, but we need an official FAQ entry for that interaction, right?
 
4. If a character is killed at the end of the phase (e.g. by Tears of Lys), will be resurrected and then immediately placed into its owner's dead pile? Or how does "until the end of the phase" delayed effects work with abilities that trigger outside of any phase?
 
Thanks Daniel! :)
 
Daniel's answer:

 

Hello,
 
1. Yes, this plot blanks traits.
 
2. Craster can be put into play, and will be blanked. While he is in the dead pile, he is out of play and his immunity is not active. The lasting effect that banks him while in play (as well as the delayed effect that puts him into the dead pile) is created simultaneously with the effect that puts him into play.  Therefore, he enters play with a pre-existing lasting effect on him, invoking the rule: “If a card gains immunity to an effect, pre-existing lasting effects that have been applied to the card are not removed”(RRG p.9). So The White Shadows’ lasting effect blanks him, and he is killed at the end of the phase.
 
3. A FAQ entry on this topic is forthcoming, which will go into more detail. The gist of it is: no, the plot cannot return a character from an opponent’s hand or deck.
 
4. Yes. Because White Shadows has an “at the end of the phase” delayed effect, if it were to put a character into play at the end of the phase, the delayed effect would immediately resolve and return the character to the dead pile. 
 
Thanks!
Danny Schaefer
LCG Developer
Fantasy Flight Games


#24
mplain

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I don't really agree with understand answer #2: why would "while this card is in play ..." be a pre-existing effect? In my understanding "pre-existing" means it existed before, for at least some duration. But the blanking effect didn't exist for any amount of time before Craster entered play. Furthermore, it seems to me that the quoted rule is irrelevant, because if the blanking effect is indeed pre-existing, the Craster would not gain immunity, so it doesn't matter if the immunity would remove the lasting effect or not... Ugh. But then, my understanding is limited. We got an official ruling, so I am content.