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FAQ question gathering


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19 replies to this topic

#1
steinerp

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There has been a lot of talk lately about a final FAQ. I know Brad wanted to do one but he has this job and I guess they have a new game coming out (which should be awesome if Brad is working on it) and he didn't get to do it. I have a list of questions and answer but would like to get community feedback on if anything else is missing. I hope to get both BCL and Apoka to sign off on it as well as the general community before "publishing" it. Here are the questions I have:
 
Kroot hunter a kroot
Champ card misprints
A couple of questions around how Herald of Waagh works
Shard of Deceiver discard from play or just hand
Gorgul da slaya and AOE
 
Please note that I hope to keep this in the spirit of past FAQs and use it to clarify rules and situations. Not fix over or underpowered cards. The only possible exception is the Shrieking Exarch/Necron combo that Brad indicated to me at worlds he was going to fix (but I don't know what his plan was). I don't plan to or want to make this into a I think this should work this way type of thing either. I'm going to try and source as much as I can from official sources. That said if you have anything else that you would like to see address, please let me know here or by private message. Thanks

 


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#2
TeamApoka

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You already know our position. ^^ We are pushing everyone since a few weeks to get this initiative running, so we are more than happy to see this finally live. :)
 
- As discussed, we would like to add 1 item to the FAQ,
Change Y'varn so the action is not mandatory for the opponent.
1/ The planet (especially in the current meta) is already a terrible game changer. Don't force your opponent to put a Recon Drone in his HQ turn 1 as you put an Heldrake.
2/ It eases the process during organized play. No need to call a judge to check your hand.
 
- For the Exarch,
It worth waiting a bit, if we can get a word from Brad. Loyal is a nice way to solve the problem with Necron, but the risk will still be there, only limited to the eldar faction.
 
Our suggestions:
A. Reaction: After an army unit is destroyed at this planet, draw 1 card or deal 1 damage to a target enemy unit at this planet.
B. Reaction: After an army unit is destroyed at this planet, draw 1 card and deal 1 damage to a target enemy unit. (Limit twice per phase.)
 
B is our favorite:
  • It keeps the original ability.
  • It solves the necron's combo. With a limit it solves basically any possible infinite combo.
  • Non-loyal as planned so you still can play it with Necron for a reasonnable combo (still 2 ping + 2 cards / turn).
  • And the limit also blocks those very weird battles, with 2 Exarch on board, and the eldar player just wiping out the battlefield AND draw 14 cards after the first kill. (Loyal won't fix this)
  • It's easy to play even for those who will not do a reprint: it's basically the same card, just don't trigger it more than twice per phase. Mavros style!

 

Cheers!


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#3
steinerp

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Interesting I hadn't heard complaints about Y'varn.  (Other than my first game at worlds where I mulligan'ed into a 1 unit hand, something like a rogue trader) and he dropped a helldrake at 1 (y'varn) and followed it up with a bloodthirster and an ominous wind turn 2. )  I'm sending you a PM and will add it to the discussion topics. 

 

And yeah, this won't happen today as I do want to give this time to settle as much as possible and get sourced answers.


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#4
GasPoweredStick

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could limit exarch to the combat phase?

Did anyone resolve jain zar vs blood angels veteran?


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#5
steinerp

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what is the Jain Zar vs. Blood Angel issue



#6
Asklepios

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Interesting I hadn't heard complaints about Y'varn.  (Other than my first game at worlds where I mulligan'ed into a 1 unit hand, something like a rogue trader) and he dropped a helldrake at 1 (y'varn) and followed it up with a bloodthirster and an ominous wind turn 2. )  I'm sending you a PM and will add it to the discussion topics. 

 

And yeah, this won't happen today as I do want to give this time to settle as much as possible and get sourced answers.

 

You remember way back in Core, when sparrowhawk was pushing the idea that you should run 3 Heldrakes out of Zarathur just because you were likely to see Y'varn in 70% of games?

That theory wasn't actually unsound for the time, simply because the card pool of decent units was so low, there was no harm in using three slots in this way.

 

Weird how things came full circle, with the chaos pro-elite card pool becoming strong enough that searching for Y'varn/Heldrake became viable again. 



#7
Kaloo

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I think Y'varn is balanced. There are strategic reasons to trigger Y'varn when your opponent is resource high and card low even if you don't have an expensive unit to drop down just because it limits your opponent's options.

 

The Exarch's a tricky one, since limiting it too much will almost render it useless. Making it loyal is definitely a mistake, but limiting its ability seems to be a good compromise. I'd recommend limiting it to 4 times a phase rather than 2, so that the spirit of the card is maintained but a flat out roll over using the Necron engine still can't happen.


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#8
GKZhukov

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Introduce a "No single instance of any card effect may be triggered more than X times per Round/Phase" clause to the rules.

 

X and Round/Phase being the bit to figure out. Really there probably should be a cap built into everything in every game ever for exactly this reason anyway, so why not introduce the cap across the board?

 

This prevents anything strong from being over-repeated in both the present and future pools. Deals with Exarch and Immolator/Flashlight.



#9
GKZhukov

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You already know our position. ^^ We are pushing everyone since a few weeks to get this initiative running, so we are more than happy to see this finally live. :)
 
- As discussed, we would like to add 1 item to the FAQ,
Change Y'varn so the action is not mandatory for the opponent.
1/ The planet (especially in the current meta) is already a terrible game changer. Don't force your opponent to put a Recon Drone in his HQ turn 1 as you put an Heldrake.
2/ It eases the process during organized play. No need to call a judge to check your hand.

 

Cheers!

 

 

Aww, but the time I made my opponent play his Klaivex was so sooo sweet :P


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#10
WarFather

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Aww, but the time I made my opponent play his Klaivex was so sooo sweet :P

 

Yeah Y'varn is a great counter to Kith in general. I love forcing the sig unit out too.


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#11
Intolerance

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The strategic value of Y'varn is great. Occasionally requiring a judge to verify correct resolution is awkward.

 

This is mostly an issue with in-person competitive events though, of which there are many less these days :(


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#12
SlaaneshDevotee

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could limit exarch to the combat phase?
Did anyone resolve jain zar vs blood angels veteran?


There was a discussion that seemed to end with 'just stop triggering Jain Zar'. I wasn't happy with the reasoning behind it, but no more was said.

#13
steinerp

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Ah, not with Jain Zar but with mask.  Got it



#14
Intolerance

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Introduce a "No single instance of any card effect may be triggered more than X times per Round/Phase" clause to the rules.

 

X and Round/Phase being the bit to figure out. Really there probably should be a cap built into everything in every game ever for exactly this reason anyway, so why not introduce the cap across the board?

 

This prevents anything strong from being over-repeated in both the present and future pools. Deals with Exarch and Immolator/Flashlight.

 

If a Firedrake Terminator is opposite Zogwort and an army of snotlings would his reaction eventually become untriggerable?

 

Although consideration of such preventative measures seem good from a games initial design, that kind of solution seems heavy handed at this point unless there are more known problems.



#15
Ratadin

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I just don't understand why are you trying all this strange options instead of limiting it to only beingbable to target units on its own planet.

Adding "Limit X times per phase" is bad when X goes beyond 1 or 2 as it ask for trigger keeping "did i trigger it twice or thrice?". Adding that to the WHOLE GAME is absurd.

#16
GKZhukov

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If a Firedrake Terminator is opposite Zogwort and an army of snotlings would his reaction eventually become untriggerable?

 

Although consideration of such preventative measures seem good from a games initial design, that kind of solution seems heavy handed at this point unless there are more known problems.

 

I'm happy to own that I didn't think this one through.


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#17
GasPoweredStick

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As someone who was knocked out of nationals by a firedrake terminator killing all my snotlings, yes, yes I would want his reaction to stop being triggerable :P
I think  BCL errata on the immolator to read twice by phase would be sufficient. Outisde of extreme cases, that limit is not goig to have an effect aside from breaking the combo. There's like, 2 cards that allow unit moving in AM and friends.

People keep saying change exarch, but I thought the consensus was that it was balanced except for the combo. Why not change the necron support? Maybe give that an upper limit? Again, outside of deliberate saccing combos, the most sdifferent factions you can play in a turn is 3, using BCL cards. (harbringer of storm + Nahumekh thingy + starting faction)


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#18
Kaloo

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As someone who was knocked out of nationals by a firedrake terminator killing all my snotlings, yes, yes I would want his reaction to stop being triggerable :P
I think  BCL errata on the immolator to read twice by phase would be sufficient. Outisde of extreme cases, that limit is not goig to have an effect aside from breaking the combo. There's like, 2 cards that allow unit moving in AM and friends.

People keep saying change exarch, but I thought the consensus was that it was balanced except for the combo. Why not change the necron support? Maybe give that an upper limit? Again, outside of deliberate saccing combos, the most sdifferent factions you can play in a turn is 3, using BCL cards. (harbringer of storm + Nahumekh thingy + starting faction)

 

 

Limit 3/4 per phase seems reasonable for the support.



#19
Ratadin

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IMO it limits a support that help an archtype (the heavy allied necron) against a single unit.

And I still think it's a bad idea to put such high limits, it forces the player to keep track of the activation.

#20
mobj

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could limit exarch to the combat phase?

Did anyone resolve jain zar vs blood angels veteran?

 

This seems the most sensible idea to me - keep the essence of the unit as is, and largely eliminate the necron combo possibility. There are still some very marginal ways the combo can be activated (e.g. warlord train with a whole bunch of low cost units from hq moving to a planet with an exarch / acanthrite), however it would make the combo so hard to pull off that it would be largely ineffectual.


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