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Search card resolution with remaining cards


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11 replies to this topic

#1
Intolerance

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Curious if anyone has any insight into why Neophyte Apprentice and Prototype Crisis Suit are the only two search cards that shuffle the remaining cards into your deck rather than putting them on the bottom. There are other search cards in both the same and later sets that work the original way.



#2
Skyknight

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I assumed it was merely a way to boost their level of playability through that extra feature of versatility. Everyone probably know the disheartening feeling of seeing your power cards go to the bottom of your deck in a search action/reaction, and both of them can potentially go in a Earth Caste Technician / attachment themed-deck as well as a Drop Pod centric one.


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#3
Kaloo

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I assumed it was merely a way to boost their level of playability through that extra feature of versatility. Everyone probably know the disheartening feeling of seeing your power cards go to the bottom of your deck in a search action/reaction, and both of them can potentially go in a Earth Caste Technician / attachment themed-deck as well as a Drop Pod centric one.

 

The real reason is a lot less optimistic than that unfortunately. They put "shuffle" on cards in which they didn't have the space to write "place at the bottom of the deck in any order". Nothing more complex than that


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#4
Skyknight

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That's certainly a possibility too and a likely one, but the result remains the same, both cards are slightly more versatile because of the shuffle wording :)

 

The Neophyte in particular is an interesting card I think. Aside from being an obvious one-for-one, my experience shows that opponents are more likely to target it early in a fight, most often first, to prevent the possible forced-shielding-or-face-the-possibility-of-enemy-reinforcements, even though the chances of the latter are very slim indeed. This lends the Neophyte a kind of decoy/chaff characteristic and thus is inadvertently gains some versatility there too.

(Of course I rarely attempt a setup that could actually utilize its ability seeing as there are so few Black Templar units in the game, not counting fan made content.)



#5
dnapolitano

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I recall Brad saying somewhere that shuffle isn't always favorable from a design standpoint because it breaks the flow of the game. I can't recall where though, which means I could just be making this up ;)
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#6
Skyknight

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Sounds likely coming from a pro game designer like Brad. That never occurred to me, interesting notion. I suppose it does break the flow.

And in a tournament environment precious time could be lost while one player reshuffles his deck. 



#7
Eu8L1ch

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@Dan

He did say that in a podcast (last June's I think) - he also mentioned as a designer it's irresponsible to discount options just because of previous choices you made.



#8
Kaloo

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I recall Brad saying somewhere that shuffle isn't always favorable from a design standpoint because it breaks the flow of the game. I can't recall where though, which means I could just be making this up ;)

When I spoke to him at Worlds he said something similar as well, confirming that the only reason those cards have shuffle on them is because of space limitations. It's not so bad on something like OCTGN since shuffling is just a few clicks, but mid game it's time consuming especially since you are required by the tournament rules to offer your deck up for a cut, which some people will use to carry out a full shuffle.

 

I'm glad that the "shuffle" cards never had an impact on the meta.



#9
Gabb

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When I spoke to him at Worlds he said something similar as well, confirming that the only reason those cards have shuffle on them is because of space limitations. It's not so bad on something like OCTGN since shuffling is just a few clicks, but mid game it's time consuming especially since you are required by the tournament rules to offer your deck up for a cut, which some people will use to carry out a full shuffle.

 

I'm glad that the "shuffle" cards never had an impact on the meta.

 

Space limitations? seriously? Thats a horrible reason. Aren't they more cards with more wording on them? Couldn't they just decrease the size of the font. When I first saw the shuffle mechanic I immediately knew it would be terrible and slow down the flow of the game significantly.



#10
Kaloo

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Space limitations? seriously? Thats a horrible reason. Aren't they more cards with more wording on them? Couldn't they just decrease the size of the font. When I first saw the shuffle mechanic I immediately knew it would be terrible and slow down the flow of the game significantly.

 

It's a pretty bad reason, but it's the reason nonetheless. The didn't want to decrease the font size since it would ruin the consistency between the various card's design and just look aesthetically bad. It's the same reason the Veteran Crusader is horribly worded because they didn't have the space to have the crucial word required for it to work as intended (ignoring the fact that the whole effect is terrible)



#11
Ultramarine

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It's a pretty bad reason, but it's the reason nonetheless. The didn't want to decrease the font size since it would ruin the consistency between the various card's design and just look aesthetically bad. It's the same reason the Veteran Crusader is horribly worded because they didn't have the space to have the crucial word required for it to work as intended (ignoring the fact that the whole effect is terrible)

 

med_WHK14_127.jpg

 

And yet a card like Corpulent Ork still has enough space to fit all that text.  Mmm...



#12
Gabb

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It's a pretty bad reason, but it's the reason nonetheless. The didn't want to decrease the font size since it would ruin the consistency between the various card's design and just look aesthetically bad. It's the same reason the Veteran Crusader is horribly worded because they didn't have the space to have the crucial word required for it to work as intended (ignoring the fact that the whole effect is terrible)

 

Just wondering where did you hear that this was the reason? With cards like Prototype Crisis Suit there appears to be enough space to put "place on the bottom of your deck"