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Thoughts on Article on Team Covenant site


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12 replies to this topic

#1
yodaman

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Interesting article just got posted by Stephen over at Team Covenant about the game which is worth a read and pretty well thought out.

 

https://teamcovenant...-destiny-become

 

I'm curious to what others think about this if you haven't seen it already. 

 


  • BayushiSezaru likes this

#2
DJstormtrooper

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Yeah... the designers clearly did not read this before they made SoR.



#3
Tacullu64

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As usual I enjoyed the article. They care about their games and it shows. The article was thoughtfully written. However, I disagree with his changes and conclusions for the most part. I do agree that a large decision tree and player interaction are good for the game. I just think we still have both in the game. The latest KOR episode has a similar discussion that more aligns with my thoughts

#4
Jarrett

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The only card that I have a problem with currently is Second Chance. God, if they get a couple of those and/or Ammo Belt, it's just so ridiculous to deal with. Second Chance needs to be changed to move it to the "Set-Aside Zone" after use.


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#5
yodaman

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Not to mention, Ammo Belt seems like it should only apply to weapons or upgrades thematically, rather than abilities.  As I said somewhere else, guess those ammo belts must have a lot of bacta in them. 


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#6
palpster

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I don't mind the action stacking at all actually. It creates a nice change from the "I go, you go" standard gameplay. It's the recursion that causes/might cause problems, being able to play a Vibroknife/Holdout Blaster every turn is where it changes from being a cool play to feeling oppressive, and it's the same mechanic that fuels feelings of "I never had a chance" when it comes to getting Ammo Belt back over and over again.

 

I hope that in future sets the designers tread very, very carefully when it comes to returning cards from the discard pile.


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#7
yodaman

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I think Jarrett's suggestion about Second Chance is a good one and I hope FFG considers that change, especially since with Cheat you now get Second Chance back even if you don't have the Graveyard out.



#8
FuzzyWookiee

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Poe - Specials only on Vehicles

 

Ammo Belt - only on Weapon/Equipment

 

Play around anything else. Discard, disrupt, massive damage. Those should be able to deal with some concerns. Jyn/Rebel/Second Chance/Ammo Belt is not a problem if you do the above. 

 

And DJ Stormtrooper......Set 2 was done waaaaaaaaay before this article came out I bet



#9
pantsyg

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Action stacking isn't a huge problem. Sure it rewards highrolls and that feels bad, but we've had Jango for awhile. On mediocre rolls it does little. If your opponent does a bunch then claims, you have free board to resolve your dice as you please, especially if you have focus sides. The main exception is Maz, who can use her focus to immediately get one result you really want--brutal when paired with Poe, Jyn, or any character with one massive special or damage side. The consistency she enables is unreal, and worse because it's impossible to control. 

 

Ammo Belt/Second Chance is genuinely busted. Played an eJyn/Maz the other day that I had dead to rights by round 3, but recurring Ammo Belt with free Cheats and Rebels made it inevitable that I wouldn't be able to dig up the damage needed to win--especially while getting my hand and deck milled. With that combo set up, the belt/Second Chance player doesn't have to do much more than wait, which sucks. I hate to complain about combos as I'd rather find the way to play around something strong, but I can't see the counterplay for that one since you need 10 damage plus whatever original health the character had that turn to punch through it--difficult to pull off when you're getting hit with big discard sides to limit your rerolls.

 

Maybe the key is to discard their hand heavily, hoping to hit their recursion cards. Disrupt would be a good play-around if Belt wasn't only 1 cost. 



#10
pantsyg

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I think Jarrett's suggestion about Second Chance is a good one and I hope FFG considers that change, especially since with Cheat you now get Second Chance back even if you don't have the Graveyard out.

 

Don't forget Rebel, which brings SC or Belt back for 2/free if Jyn is out. 


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#11
yodaman

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Good point.  I just hadn't made it through all the SoR cards when I posted initially to catch that also let you recur from discard.  It's a bit silly.  I think there's a few things that FFG might seriously need to consider changing somehow sooner rather than later. 

 

 I'm sure some people will say that people just need to adapt to the meta, but if the existence of certain cards and combos warps things to the point that it essentially forces everyone to play specific counters I don't think that's a good thing for the overall health of the game. 



#12
pantsyg

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I'm sure some people will say that people just need to adapt to the meta, but if the existence of certain cards and combos warps things to the point that it essentially forces everyone to play specific counters I don't think that's a good thing for the overall health of the game. 

 

This is my main concern. If a mill/hand destruction/outlast deck proves to be the deck to beat, and has very limited counters, the meta suffers tremendously. Any character with Lone Operative/SC/Belt is very hard to eliminate if the opponent has recursion available. It may be a little early to be concerned as I haven't yet played against the combo enough with different tools, but from a theorycraft point of view it's hard to figure out a reliable counter. 

 

Related, I like mill as an archetype, but if it becomes the dominant archetype it'll feel a little like Destiny has jumped the Netrunner shark to me. 

 

And as an aside, I recall Lukas saying they were "careful with" recursion effects...



#13
yodaman

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That last comment is a bit of a joke. I don't think they were careful enough on the recursion effects to be honest.