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Scorpion clan strategy thread


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146 replies to this topic

#61
Asklepios

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Vengeful Oathkeeper has been one of those things that kind of works. As long as they do their military challenge before yours, you can generate that extra free body. But it's only got 2 strength, and it's not well supported by the rest of the deck, so what normally happens is that it isn't a position to win a conflict. The unexpectedness of it helps a bit, as does the obligatory Banzai and Fine Katana, but it's just not spectacular - there's always other cards I'd rather draw instead.

 

I think you may be right: leaving the influence unspent is fine for Scorpion, as they've got better quality cards in-clan than anything else Lion can sell them.



#62
Asklepios

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More proactively, I'm seriously considering going 3x Watch Commander and nothing else, having seen what an amazing game I had when I stole that attachment with Calling In Favors. 

 

I think if we get more tech for that victory path, it'll be a strong alliance play.


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#63
Stefan2581

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Sad to see you lost to the scorpions :-(



#64
Hakkor

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I'm sure a Crab alliance will be very powerful in the (possibly) upcoming Shinobi deck, further punishing your opponent's hand. Probably Watch Commander (on Miyako) and Levy will be crucial for the extra honor punch.

 

There is much testing to do yet, many combinations to discover. We stil haven't figured out honor bidding and honor loss ideal patrons, so I predict a long road to walk there.



#65
NuFenix

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How do folks feel about us now being Seeker of Void?

 

I will happily have Shameful Display and Pilgrimage in my provinces, even though I did enjoy have two Air provinces.

 

The downside is I'm not that keen on Oni Mask over Backhanded Compliment, but I feel the Seeker role will do more in a game than the Keeper role will.



#66
Asklepios

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Agree that a Seeker role is preferable, as we don't really need the influence, and don't Honour enough to use Keeper Initiates. Air or Void is much the same to me.

 

My main worry here actually isn't losing out on tech, it's the tech that some other factions are gaining. Stopping Lions is going to be increasingly tricky, as we were already fairly fragile against military attacks. Get the feeling that the game is going to get faster from card pool changes, so there may be no time for dishonour wins anyway.



#67
selderane

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No, according to our new Hatamoto we don't need the tech because dishonor is already powerful and creates a NPE.

Apparently according to him we have everything we need, we just need to git gud. And if we disagree we just want to run out new players and make sure everyone hates the game.

#68
sparrowhawk

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Both void provinces have anti-synergy with Display of Power.

Time to rebuild my splash Phoenix into dull splash Dragon. Or maybe Crane.

Did anyone read the article on Dropbears? I love theorycraft articles like that. And with such reputable card gamers in that Discord group (calimsha is a Frenchman whose builds influenced Netrunner meta for a long period), the concept must be taken seriously.

Essentially bully the bonus fate by playing 1 dynasty and ambush characters including 6 covert 3 costers that are your win cons.

I had built a similar idea with 3x Rival, 3x Steward, 3x Yojimbo, 1x Adept and 3x Miyako, 3x For Shame. But strangely they didn't play Miyako. Intuitively felt wrong but intimidated by big card game names saying differently, I'm sure they are right.

One thing I learnt from that article is to play Charge in all Clans. If someone can find the link and add it to this thread, it will definitely help to spread knowledge (else I will do it when not using phone).

#69
Hakkor

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I'm really happy with Void Seeker.

 

The provinces may seem anti synbergistic, but Pilgrimage simply cancels a ring (you can't activate it, nor your opponent. That's winning according to my book) and shameful display is usually defended if you need to avoid being broken, so you will only play Display of Power in case you are not interested in defending. That also happened before with Seeker of Air. Curiously, both Void rings usuallymake Display of Power not worth playing, since the can avoid being broken and also negate your opponent activating in at the same time. The, you can use DoP in other provinces.

 

Ambush is excellent, but characters come with no fate, so it must be played carefully. Future Shinobi decks will make great use of the card if their strategy can afford an average bid 3, so they will eventually be able to play Good Omen and keep the card an extra turn. Miyako will also prize having the conflict character count high.

 

I'd like to read more about Charge in the current Scorpion card pool. The only cards that excell in such a play are a few 2 costers and Yunako. If not, you heavily rely on Favorable Grounds shenannigans. Maybe I'm too close-minded in Scorpion politics orientation and need some fresh ideas (I play no charge, banzai or katanas, and feel little need of them).



#70
sparrowhawk

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Sorry, Hakkor, I can't find that "Dropbears" article but it was incredibly non-conventional anti-groupthink.

 

It was something like my Crane ambush build below (which I have just updated by switching Seeker Role and 1 Province)...

 

 

Deck Clan: Scorpion (Crane)
Total Influence: (9/10)
 
Stronghold:  
 
Role:  
 
Province: (5)  
Air (1/1) Earth (1/1) Fire (1/1) Void (2/2) Water (0/1)  
 
DYNASTY: (40)
 
Character: (36)
 
Holding: (4)
 
CONFLICT: (40)
 
Character: (10)  
 
Attachment: (9)  
 
Event: (21)  
 
 
The concept I had was to always gain the 2 fate swing by passing first and having impact conflict characters in hand, trading card draw for fate (and fate denial). I also planned to farm fate on rings whenever possible (again for the fate swing) to further apply the fate choke.
 
But their build found room for 3 Charge and 3 Favourable Ground by cutting some sacred cows like Fiery Madness as well as a cut I didn't agree with in Miyako (too slow set up, they said). They explained how Charge with Hiroue is so good (with Favourable Ground) which is a learning I'm using in Crane with Challenger (if I can't afford to play her with +2F). It was so unconventional and well-argued in places that it blew my mind. It's called "Dropbears" (their name for the 3-drop coverts) and the link to the website article is somewhere in that horrible interface for sensible discussion called Facebook. I would not have taken it so seriously if I didn't already respect some of those names in their international Discord group from other card games as great non-conventional thinkers. And it certainly evolved my thinking on how to play Crane better (along with watching Urbanek).
 
Also given me confidence that my silly experimental build above (untested as I play so little) may have more legs than I imagined.
 
Beware the Dropbears!


#71
Hakkor

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So, I have a similar deck but focusing on events (cost 2 and 3) rather than characters. Once aain, you can pass early to prepare Ambush / Blackmail / Display of Power to turn around your opponent's conflict. Worth mentioning the deck includes a lot of 2x cards and a few 1x silver bullet cards that I want to play just once in the game, when the time is right. It may not be a "popular" strategy, but it has worked nicely in a lot of games.

 

Deck Created with CardGameDB.com Legend of the Five Rings Deckbuilder


Deck Clan: Scorpion

Total Cards: (84)

Total Conflict: (39) Total Dynasty: (40)

Total Influence: (8/10)

Stronghold:  
1x City of the Open Hand (Core Set #6)

Role:  
1x Seeker of Void (Core Set #218B)

Province: (5)  
Air (1/1) Earth (1/1) Fire (0/1) Void (2/2) Water (1/1)  
1x Entrenched Position (Core Set #17)
1x Secret Cache (Core Set #13)
1x Shameful Display (Core Set #24)
1x Rally to the Cause (Core Set #23)
1x Pilgrimage (Core Set #22)

Character [Dynasty]: (35)  
3x Bayushi Liar (Core Set #95)
3x Bayushi Manipulator (Core Set #96)
3x Bayushi Shoju (Core Set #107)
3x Bayushi Yunako (Core Set #105)
3x Blackmail Artist (Core Set #98)
2x Favored Niece (Core Set #102)
2x Shosuro Actress (Core Set #103)
2x Sinister Soshi (Core Set #97)
3x Soshi Illusionist (Core Set #99)
3x Yogo Hiroue (Core Set #106)
3x Young Rumormonger (Core Set #101)
2x Yogo Outcast (Core Set #100)

Character [Conflict]: (3/10)  
1x Adept of Shadows (Core Set #180)
2x Unassuming Yōjimbō (Core Set #181)


Attachment: (10)  
2x Cloud the Mind (Core Set #202)
1x Court Mask (Core Set #182)
3x Fiery Madness (Core Set #183)
2x Ornate Fan (Core Set #201)
2x Magnificent Kimono (Core Set #172)

Event: (26)  
1x Ambush (Core Set #188)
1x Assassination (Core Set #203)
2x Blackmail (Core Set #189)
2x Calling in Favors (Core Set #186)
3x Court Games (Core Set #206)
3x For Shame! (Core Set #207)
3x Forged Edict (Core Set #184)
2x I Can Swim (Core Set #187)
2x Outwit (Core Set #212)
2x Spies at Court (Core Set #209)
3x Way of the Scorpion (Core Set #185)
2x Display of Power (Core Set #179)

Holding: (8)  
3x City of Lies (Core Set #108)
2x Favorable Ground (Core Set #128)
3x Imperial Storehouse (Core Set #129)
 



#72
WWDrakey

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Here's the article, I believe: http://kolatinforman...r-the-dropbear/

 

Good example of why I personally think there's a ton left to learn with the various dimensions of the game... and why I find several of the "auto-include" / "bad card" evaluations very... premature, at this point.

 

Definitely a good read.


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#73
Ignithas

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... this simply shows that good players can succeed with suboptimal deck lists, especially if it catches your oponent by surprise.



#74
sparrowhawk

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New Scorpion holding spoiled looks good.

Back Alley Hideaway
+1 strength
Interrupt: when a Scorp character you control leaves play - attach it to this holding instead
Action: PLAY an attached character as if from this province then sac this holding

Seems good. Doesn't trigger sincerity but can stack 1 corpse per round. I'm unsure how it works with sac effects like Actress. A lot of clarity needed here.

Again anyone able to post the image here?

#75
Gauldoth2

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Again anyone able to post the image here?

 

Here you are: https://scontent.fbu...b0e&oe=5AA6E4B4


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#76
Asklepios

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Huh. Without putting that name to it, I've already been a "dropbear" player, pretty much always putting in 1 weenie then passing when I have the 3-coster in hand.

 

I don't mulligan to play that strategy though, as mulliganing hard to a particular strategy is a great way to get terrible post-mulligan hands every fifth game. Better instead to "bear" in mind the strategy when the hand occurs.


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#77
Hakkor

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The question is, since the card requires you to "play the card as if it were in the province", I suppose it will limit you to the dinasty phase.

 

Stil, it's a great swiss knife for later turns when you get a crappy flop, but the surprise effect is partially lost. Still, I'm eager to play it with shinobis and see what happens. A great tool to keep cards like adept of shadows on the board or characters with conditional but powerful skills like Shosuro Actres, Soshi Illusionist, Young Rumormonguer and such, so that you can play one of them when needed.



#78
Ignithas

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If the ruling with the dynasty phase is correct, I don't think that the Hideaway will see play (except we will see cards that synergies directly with it). Sacrificing a dynasty draw to get potentially a better dynasty draw one or more turns later doesn't seem like a good trade.



#79
estyles

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Back Alley Hideaway
+1 strength
Interrupt: when a Scorp character you control leaves play - attach it to this holding instead
Action: PLAY an attached character as if from this province then sac this holding

Seems good. Doesn't trigger sincerity but can stack 1 corpse per round. I'm unsure how it works with sac effects like Actress. A lot of clarity needed here.


There are a million questions about the wording on this card. The discord channel wrote up like a 99-page legal document to send to the rules team for clarification. I've personally been fighting the urge to say that Back-Alley's wording is an abortion (boo...). But it's pretty terribly written if the goal was clarity.

#80
Letux

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If you're worried about the display of power/pilgrimage interaction then put Pilgrimage under your stronghold in the Phoenix splash
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