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The House With the Red Door

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Best Answer mplain , 30 August 2017 - 12:05 AM

1) Changing control doesn't really interfere with the "cannot be discarded from play" effect in any way.

 

2) The card cannot be discarded from play. It can still leave play by other means, e.g. by being sacrificed, returned to hand, put of top of the deck, or removed from the game.

 

3) "Sacrifice" and "discard from play" are different means of leaving play. If a card cannot be discarded from play, this doesn't mean it cannot be sacrificed. The RRG entry for Sacrifice says that "Sacrificing a card does not satisfy any other means (such as "kill" or "discard") of a card leaving play".

 

4) "Discard from play" and "discard from hand" are also different things. Also, I assume that leaving play will make the agenda lose track of "that card". We're still waiting for an updated official FAQ to get the relevant ruling, but my previous communication with the devs leads me to believe that the game does not keep track of specific cards changing game areas (specifically because it's difficult to be sure that a card in the new game area is the same card and not another copy).

 

5) Duplicates can be used to save a card from leaving play by any means (except sacrifice and effects that say "cannot be saved"). This includes being returned to hand or put on top of the deck. Also, a card's duplicates or copies are never affected by an effect applying strictly to another copy. Different copies of the same card are in fact different cards with the same card title.

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8 replies to this topic

#1
spagot

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With the new pack revealed, I'm curious about the wording on the reworked HoD (The House With the Red Door):

 

1. How does another player taking control of that location affect the immunity to discard? That is, if I use Dagmer to take the HWRD location, can my opponent now discard that location? Or does the agenda ability superceed controlers?

 

2. What about cards that don't specifically say "discard" (and I guess "sacrifice"?)? These would be cards like Scaling the Wall that put locations back to hand or on top of the deck. Does the ability cover all effects that cause something to leave play?

 

3. I assume that locations like Dothraki Sea are useless with this agenda? That is, you cannot sacrifice it because the agenda is preventing that and not being able to sacrifice means cost is not paid so you cannot use the ability. Is that correct?

 

Thoughts?



#2
wordsmith

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It would help if you can put a text here of it:

 

"After all agendas are announced, search your deck for a non-limited unique location with printed cost 3 or lower and put it into play. That location cannot be discarded from play by card effects.

You cannot spend more than 4 gold during setup."

 

gt24_the-house-with_the-red-door_card.pn



#3
gramyotron

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I believe sacrafice != discard. So using this to get a sacrafice triggered location is just a bad deckbuilding choice.



#4
wordsmith

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I'm not sure about #1, I would say that it could not be discarded at all, even by opponent who took control of it.

 

But regarding #2 and #3, I think it's pretty clear that such location can be sacrificed and put back into a hand as well. It is not a "Discard". From the RR:

Sacrifice
When a player is instructed to sacrifice a card, that player must choose a card in play that he or she
controls and that matches the requirements of the sacrifice, and place it in his or her discard pile.
- If the chosen card does not leave play, the sacrifice is not considered to have been made.
- Sacrificing a card does not satisfy any other means (such as “kill” or “discard”) of a card leaving play.
- A sacrificed card cannot be saved.

 

Sacrificed card is not discarded, just put into a discard pile.

The situation you described would be worded differently, f.e."...That location cannot leave play."

 

Additional questions to this Agenda:

 

#4: What would happen if Scaling the Wall event returns such location in my hand and then my opponent plays Seen in flames or His Viper Eyes. Or if I have a duplicate of it in my hand. Can it be discarded then? As the text on this Agenda specifies: "cannot be discarded from play", does it mean that in my hand (out of play) it is not immune to discard?

 

#5: Also what would happen if I have duplicate on HWRD location and my opponent plays Scaling the Wall? Can I discard a duplicate to save from leaving play state? Reading the part of RR on Duplicates - I would rule that duplicate card is not that location so I can discard it. It would be a discard of a duplicate, not a discard of a location. Right?


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#5
mplain

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✓  Best Answer

1) Changing control doesn't really interfere with the "cannot be discarded from play" effect in any way.

 

2) The card cannot be discarded from play. It can still leave play by other means, e.g. by being sacrificed, returned to hand, put of top of the deck, or removed from the game.

 

3) "Sacrifice" and "discard from play" are different means of leaving play. If a card cannot be discarded from play, this doesn't mean it cannot be sacrificed. The RRG entry for Sacrifice says that "Sacrificing a card does not satisfy any other means (such as "kill" or "discard") of a card leaving play".

 

4) "Discard from play" and "discard from hand" are also different things. Also, I assume that leaving play will make the agenda lose track of "that card". We're still waiting for an updated official FAQ to get the relevant ruling, but my previous communication with the devs leads me to believe that the game does not keep track of specific cards changing game areas (specifically because it's difficult to be sure that a card in the new game area is the same card and not another copy).

 

5) Duplicates can be used to save a card from leaving play by any means (except sacrifice and effects that say "cannot be saved"). This includes being returned to hand or put on top of the deck. Also, a card's duplicates or copies are never affected by an effect applying strictly to another copy. Different copies of the same card are in fact different cards with the same card title.


  • steinerp likes this

#6
spagot

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Yeah that's what I thought.... This agenda got nerfed to high hell then... I was ok with it not being immune to Nightmares or Treachery but now that it can just be totally messed with in many other ways (albeit niche ways), it makes me sad they took a perfectly great agenda and just turned it into a slight card advantage. Makes me nervous for DWDW now...

 

Thanks for the answers.


  • VonWibble likes this

#7
VonWibble

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The agenda is in danger in pretty much any matchup involving Stark or Greyjoy cards.



#8
DrNovak77

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How does this comply to Nothing Burns Like The Cold ?  

 

Can a player still choose a "HWDR protected" location and don't need do discard that location? Or does the "if able" wording block that choice?



#9
Ironswimsuit

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How does this comply to Nothing Burns Like The Cold ?  

 

Can a player still choose a "HWDR protected" location and don't need do discard that location? Or does the "if able" wording block that choice?

 

It's not a legal target, so no.