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For Shame (and selecting an option that does nothing)


Best Answer mplain , 13 September 2017 - 10:37 AM

Select
 
- For all selections, an option that has the potential to change the game state must be chosen, if able.

 

1) Opponent cannot select the option to dishonor an ordinary character while Steward of Law is participating, because characters cannot become dishonored = this option wouldn't change the game state.

 

2) Opponent cannot select the option to bow a bowed character, because bowed characters cannot be bowed (see Bow, Bowed) = this option wouldn't change the game state.

 

3) Opponent cannot select the option to dishonor a dishonored character, because dishonored characters cannot be dishonored (see Personal Honor) = this option wouldn't change the game state.

 

4) You cannot play For Shame! if the only participating character controlled by your opponent is both bowed and dishonored, because the effects of For Shame! do not have potential to change the game state (see Triggered Abilities).

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3 replies to this topic

#1
Asklepios

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For Shame:

 

Action: During a conflict, if you control a participating Courtier character, choose a participating character controlled by your opponent. Your opponent must select one – dishonor the chosen character or bow it. 

 

1) If For Shame is played while Steward of Law is participating in a conflict, can my opponent select "dishonor" for no effect. Assume for this example that my character is neither honored nor dishonored at present.

 

2) If For Shame is played while the opponent's character is bowed, can the opponent select "bow" for no effect, or is he forced to pick "dishonor"?

 

3) If For Shame is played while the opponent's character is dishonored, can the opponent select "dishonor" for no effect, or is he forced to pick "bow"?

 

3) If the conflict contains 1 opposing character that is both dishonored and bowed, am I permitted to play this card, given that it cannot affect the game state?

 

I'm 99% sure of the answers here, but out of respect for my regular opponent, I don't want to prejudice answers by suggesting them.



#2
mplain

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✓  Best Answer
Select
 
- For all selections, an option that has the potential to change the game state must be chosen, if able.

 

1) Opponent cannot select the option to dishonor an ordinary character while Steward of Law is participating, because characters cannot become dishonored = this option wouldn't change the game state.

 

2) Opponent cannot select the option to bow a bowed character, because bowed characters cannot be bowed (see Bow, Bowed) = this option wouldn't change the game state.

 

3) Opponent cannot select the option to dishonor a dishonored character, because dishonored characters cannot be dishonored (see Personal Honor) = this option wouldn't change the game state.

 

4) You cannot play For Shame! if the only participating character controlled by your opponent is both bowed and dishonored, because the effects of For Shame! do not have potential to change the game state (see Triggered Abilities).


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#3
Asklepios

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Thanks for the solidly evidenced answer!

 

Wasn't aware that making selections required the change in the game state to be chosen, that's a useful bit of info.

 

Turns out I was totally wrong then!



#4
selderane

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I wish I knew this a few days ago!

We assumed that since the character couldn't be dishonored because it already was, the player wasn't actually able to make a choice and the action couldn't happen.

Good to know this forces one effect if the other is already active.