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Emissary of the Hightower + Hidden Thorns

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Best Answer mplain , 18 October 2017 - 09:10 PM

I use Emissary of the Hightower to play Hidden Thorns from my discard pile, while also controlling The Queen of Thorns. After the event's effects resolve, do I place it in my hand, or do I remove it from the game?

Does one of these replacement effects have priority, or does the "most recently initiated" effect apply (which one?), or does the first player decide?


Both Emissary of the Hightower and Hidden Thorns create replacement effects for the same triggering condition (the event being placed in your discard pile). When multiple replacement effects are initiated against the same triggering condition, the most recent replacement effect is the one that is used. In this case, Hidden Thorns’s replacement effect is more recent; the Emissary’s replacement effect was initiated earlier, when its ability resolved, whereas Hidden Thorns’s replacement effect was not initiated until the event itself resolved. Therefore, the event will return to your hand.

[Danny Schaefer, 18.10.2017]

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#1
mplain

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I use Emissary of the Hightower to play Hidden Thorns from my discard pile, while also controlling The Queen of Thorns. After the event's effects resolve, do I place it in my hand, or do I remove it from the game?

Does one of these replacement effects have priority, or does the "most recently initiated" effect apply (which one?), or does the first player decide?
 

Emissary of the Hightower

Reaction: After Emissary of the Hightower enters play, choose an event in your discard pile. Until the end of the phase, you may play that event as if it were in your hand. If you do, remove it from the game instead of placing it into your discard pile.

Hidden Thorns

Reaction: After you win an challenge by 5 or more STR, the losing opponent chooses and discards 2 cards from his or her hand. Then, if you control The Queen of Thorns, return Hidden Thorns to your hand instead of placing it in your discard pile. (Max 1 per challenge.)



#2
mplain

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✓  Best Answer

I use Emissary of the Hightower to play Hidden Thorns from my discard pile, while also controlling The Queen of Thorns. After the event's effects resolve, do I place it in my hand, or do I remove it from the game?

Does one of these replacement effects have priority, or does the "most recently initiated" effect apply (which one?), or does the first player decide?


Both Emissary of the Hightower and Hidden Thorns create replacement effects for the same triggering condition (the event being placed in your discard pile). When multiple replacement effects are initiated against the same triggering condition, the most recent replacement effect is the one that is used. In this case, Hidden Thorns’s replacement effect is more recent; the Emissary’s replacement effect was initiated earlier, when its ability resolved, whereas Hidden Thorns’s replacement effect was not initiated until the event itself resolved. Therefore, the event will return to your hand.

[Danny Schaefer, 18.10.2017]


  • FedericoFasullo likes this

#3
uBaHoB

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Are we deciding the order at Annals of Castle Black? Or similarly Castle black fires first and the event condition second.



#4
mplain

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Are we deciding the order at Annals of Castle Black? Or similarly Castle black fires first and the event condition second.

 

Castle Black has a Forced Reaction. It triggers much later than any delayed effects.



#5
Ironswimsuit

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Way more eloquent and technical than myself.  Basically, both Annals and Emissary require the card to be "placed in the discard pile" in order for the event to be removed from the game QoT circumvents this by giving Hidden Thorns a destination other than the discard pile.

 

In short, abuse this in Tyrell Rains and watch your opponent use his or her cardless hands to wipe away their tears.