Jump to content

Welcome to Card Game DB
Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to create topics, post replies to existing threads, give reputation to your fellow members, get your own private messenger, post status updates, manage your profile and so much more. If you already have an account, login here - otherwise create an account for free today!
Photo

So did the Elemental cycle fix Unicorn?


  • Please log in to reply
34 replies to this topic

#21
Solaris

Solaris

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1241 posts

If it’s any consolation, I voted for Seeker of Void for Unicorn this year. Then when it looked like we were getting Seeker of Fire or Seeker of Water I pledged my support for the latter - with Keeper of Water as my second option.

I agree that not having access to a Seeker role is rather restrictive. However I think the idea at Gencon given that we had first pick was to safeguard a Keeper role for the next 8 months, which I can understand. I just wish it had been Water not Fire.

Personally as an occasional Crab player too i think Seeker of Earth is a great role for Crab. In fact I think every Clan has done well out of this apart from Dragon (Keeper of Void....why?!). The problem is though that I think Unicorn feel they’ve struck gold with Keeper of Fire when really we should have been looking to strike Platinum. Is having access to Feast of Famine going to be enough of a boost given that Meditations was already our second-strongest Province when combined with Talisman?

 

Fire role also gives Unicorn players the access to Unleash the Djinn, which is a pretty strong card when used with their new SH and the swarm strategy.



#22
stevecat

stevecat

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 149 posts

In theory, "I can't play seeker cards" seems harsh, but what cards would Unicorn actually want out of a seeker role? I don't know why anyone would want chasing the sun, so the only thing I could think of would be either PFB and Kami Unleashed, or maybe a rare Consumed by Five Fires.

 

Other than that, the ability to double up on provinces? Unicorn don't have to splash for the Talisman, which automatically makes Keeper a MUCH stronger option for them. When you can ALWAYS send the fight to your most annoying province (Shameful, FoF, etc) then I don't see why province selection is a huge deal. Plus the keeper initiates are way more useful.



#23
Caldera

Caldera

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 309 posts
I think the issue is not so much that we really need access to Seeker-only cards, but more that the lack of a Seeker role stifles the creativity that the rest of the clans can foster now. Yes a Seeker role may appear (and probably is) weaker for Unicorn, but equally there could be unexpected benefits from having a Seeker role - and that will only come from experimenting (and yes I know there’s nothing to stop you doing so in casual play, but in practice what’s the point in experimenting with a role your clan may never get access to?)

I’d be particularly interested to hear what Lion players think about this. I can’t see any compelling reason for them to want a Seeker role either, yet people i’ve spoken to seem pretty pleased about getting Seeker of Void. I’m guessing the Pilgrimage + Shameful double act is the key?
  • stevecat, Skaak, Grimbo and 1 other like this

#24
Grimbo

Grimbo

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 657 posts


I’d be particularly interested to hear what Lion players think about this. I can’t see any compelling reason for them to want a Seeker role either, yet people i’ve spoken to seem pretty pleased about getting Seeker of Void. I’m guessing the Pilgrimage + Shameful double act is the key?

 

Seeker of Void does nothing with role or element locked cards at all(unless someone really wants to play Kami Unleashed and Pathfinder Blade. The latter dead to me post restricted list). It is strictly worse than keeper of fire in that sense. As you say it is all about the provinces, so:

 

1. Do you want more influence, Feast or Famine, Keeper Initiates and access to the Talisman, or;

2. A chance at +2 fate, and the ability to play Pilgrimage AND Shameful Display.

 

I can see pros and cons for both, and I think the splashes are clear(for Lion):

 

Scorpion, Crane, Crab - Seeker

Unicorn, Dragon - Keeper

 

Phoenix, who cares :P

 

I find it funny btw, that no deck currently can run Time for War and Restored Heirloom. That seems silly to me.

 

Going back to Unicorn, I think this new role is a 100% upgrade over the old one. Sure no Seeker option for 3 months but is that so bad?


  • Caldera and Skyknight like this

#25
Ignithas

Ignithas

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 443 posts

Lion has pretty much the same 2 splashes that are above the other ones (no matter the role) and they are Dragon and Crab. Talisman isn't important for Lion.



#26
Grimbo

Grimbo

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 657 posts
Yea...I disagree. The Crane splash continues to be very strong and I can make a case for pony/scorp.
I'm not going to play just 1-2 splashes because omghawktattoobbq.

#27
SlaaneshDevotee

SlaaneshDevotee

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 427 posts
Kami Unleashed are interesting to me for Honour runs.

#28
Ignithas

Ignithas

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 443 posts

Yea...I disagree. The Crane splash continues to be very strong and I can make a case for pony/scorp.
I'm not going to play just 1-2 splashes because omghawktattoobbq.


Maybe I am understanding it wrong, but the phrase "the splash is clear" indicates for me the splashes which lead to the best results, not the decks you subjectivly like the most.
  • Grimbo likes this

#29
JoeFromCincinnati

JoeFromCincinnati

    Advanced Member

  • Contributor
  • PipPipPip
  • 1346 posts

Unicorn getting Keeper of Fire and being able to naturally run Talisman without sacrificing Let Gos may be the single largest buff they got this cycle XD


  • Ignithas, Solaris, Grimbo and 1 other like this

#30
OutOfFactionWarlord

OutOfFactionWarlord

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 216 posts

Unicorn Keeper of Fire in a 6-clan game (ban Dragon) is hilariously oppressive.  Talisman in-clan plus FoF, both to trigger any time and to protect when your opponent finds it at the most opportune time, is amazing.  You end up forcing your opponent to never tower until they find a Mystic.

 

It's also pretty great at baiting Let Goes, so if you do allow Dragon to be played casually in your local meta you have to bump it up to 3x Talisman because the text now reads (cancel an opponent's Let Go).

 

In all seriousness though, Unicorn are in a great place now after this cycle.


  • Grimbo and Skyknight like this

#31
Severijn

Severijn

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 58 posts

there is a bit of a problem with that unicorn are building their deck to go into two opposite directions. You play a lot of small bodies for unleash the djinn, and you run talisman and feast or famine to create a blow-out and drain that fate. The issue is that any savvy opponent will go wide against unicorn, which means the impact of feast or famine is smaller than in a deck that is full of towers like dragon. Your opponent just won't have that much fate on their characters to come and steal. And that is when you have a talisman out, which is not free either, but it sure is unique, which means multiple can clog up your conflict draw.

 

I like the unicorn keeper of fire deck, but the build I have seen thus far is very reliant on unleash the djinn and force of the river and to a lesser degree a couple of key big characters. It's strong, but also something I feel I can exploit by going wide or getting an event cancel online. 

 

I'm sure they'll streamline the build to be less combo-oriented and just present more raw power, and then we'll have an excellent unicorn deck that is a real contender for one of the better decks out there.



#32
Skaak

Skaak

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 160 posts

there is a bit of a problem with that unicorn are building their deck to go into two opposite directions.

 

Yeah, this was what was puzzling me when I finally got the Elemental Cycle this past week. Sure, Feast or Famine + Talisman is a ridiculously annoying combo (especially if you splash Dragon for Hawk Tattoo), but it's also best if both you and your opponent are going tall whereas the majority of the new cards are pushing Unicorn to go wide. I tried throwing together a Meishodo + Iuchi Shahai + swarm tech deck, and there's basically no movement tech anymore, despite practically everything sporting a Cavalry keyword. Very strange feeling.

 

Based on the cardpool, it looks like the designers are trying to push Unicorn into either playing with few high-fate characters and movement effects, or lots of no-fate characters with benefits to Military swarms. But would this even work if we lost access to a Fire role? I'm not so sure. Just based on the cards (haven't played any games with them yet) it seems like a huge chunk of Unicorn's new power is that they can run Feast or Famine and Unleash the Djinn. Scratch those two cards, and suddenly you're back to ineffective swarms and a Dynasty deck filled with overcosted-for-their-stats characters.

 

Not to say there aren't good cards in the cycle (Shiotome Encampment looks awesome, Force of the River combines excellently with existing cards like Cavalry Reserves, and I am happy that we finally have tech to support swarms, since the core set had a bunch of swarmable stuff that was absolutely useless most of the time); just that I'm still not fully convinced that Unicorn has been bootstrapped into being able to compete with the other clans the way FFG was claiming, barring roles that allow them access to broken neutral provinces. :)


  • Asklepios and Caldera like this

#33
stevecat

stevecat

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 149 posts

I've found that a lot of the characters that support the swarm playstyle still cost a lot (4-5 fate for Shono, Kaze Regulars) making it tricky to use them.



#34
windforce

windforce

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 18 posts

As a Unicorn player I think that the Elemental cycle helps, but not as much as I hoped it would do. Although that may also be due to my lack of skill and limited playing opportunities. In my experience Unicorn made a step forward but has not quite jumped the fence.

 

Best Unicorn card from the new cycle IMO: Master of the Swift Waves.


  • Caldera and Grimbo like this

#35
Caldera

Caldera

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 309 posts

 
Best Unicorn card from the new cycle IMO: Master of the Swift Waves.


I definitely agree (although I haven’t tried Shahai yet). Master of the Swift Waves is the closest i’ve got to recreating that ‘Venomthrope Polluter’ experience from Conquest.

Actually I haven’t had a chance to try out the new stronghold yet (real life has been rudely encroaching on my gaming time in recent weeks), but I am both very excited and also a little apprehensive about playing Unicorn in the new KoF/HMT era. Feedback on the various Unicorn forums I follow seemed initially to be very positive: People reporting much-improved success following the switch to KoF/HMT, 2 or 3 Mil attacks per turn and Turn 2 victories against Crane(!). And that’s great, don’t get me wrong. But now others are starting to ‘come out’ and admitting that they aren’t really getting to trigger HMT very much at all in their games...

Hawk Tattoo and FoF aside, the trick seems to be making use of Unleash the Djinn, Force of the River, Cavalry Reserves, Captive Audience...but personally i’m not sure how i’d be able to pull off all that without getting pushed to zero honour (Yurts or no Yurts), let alone dodging all the event cancels.

I’ve seen people report great win-rates but then in the small-print it turns out that a lot of them were against Dragon (our easiest match-up even before KoF). For me the real litmus test will be how Uni performs against traditionally tough match-ups like Scorpion and Phoenix.
  • Grimbo and Skyknight like this