Jump to content

Welcome to Card Game DB
Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to create topics, post replies to existing threads, give reputation to your fellow members, get your own private messenger, post status updates, manage your profile and so much more. If you already have an account, login here - otherwise create an account for free today!
Photo

Shub-Niggurath top 10 cards

- - - - - shub

  • Please log in to reply
54 replies to this topic

#41
Wickywacky

Wickywacky

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 70 posts
N

You mean basically exclude restricted cards from top 10 contention?

Yes and No. I mean put Colour - Top 10 unrestricted cards, below all restricted cards for that colour in order of relative power. I mean all restricted cards are already identified as immensely powerful. It makes more sense for me to lump them together with the other restricted cards so you can evaluate which restricted card fits the deck you want to make best since all restricted cards are competing for a particular spot rather than to make it on the deck.

#42
Danigral

Danigral

    Advanced Member

  • Small Council
  • 1358 posts

bump



#43
Daevar

Daevar

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 36 posts

Sooo... bump?



#44
dboeren

dboeren

    Advanced Member

  • Contributor
  • PipPipPip
  • 2834 posts

I think we need some more time with the new cards first, but yes, there will be an update at some point.



#45
blackhalo23

blackhalo23

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 138 posts

ba-ba-bump.



#46
Obtuse

Obtuse

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 601 posts
Pervasive Toxemia definitely goes on. Black Dog perhaps comes off, it just doesn't pull it's weight as a restricted card if you ask me. Would personally replace Burrowing Beneath with Thunder in the East.
  • alduc likes this

#47
Jhaelen

Jhaelen

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1082 posts

Burrowing Beneath is still way better than Thunder in the East because you can play it as a reaction: It gets rid of the Support card before anything bad can happen. Thunder in the East is all too often too late to do much good. All of the Support cards, I'm really afraid of need to dealt with immediately.

 

I still don't have a good idea which of the new Shub cards really have top-10 potential. Imho, most of the cards excel in a dedicated deck, but they're not something you'd put in _every_ Shub deck. E.g. I can't imagine ever building a Mi-Go deck without both Mi-Go Worker and Xlixcte-Oonth, but they won't go into any other type of deck.



#48
Obtuse

Obtuse

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 601 posts
There are only two support cards I really fear enough to need gone immediately and keep a 2 domain open for. Plague Stone and Khopesh. Khopesh though you can immediately take care of with targeted character removal. Plague Stone is more problematic and can and often does shift a game dramatically.

For everything else, Thunder in the East is the better card as it's less expensive and lets you draw a card.

I often look to other ways to weathering a Plague Stone rather than counting on having a burrowing and a two domain at the ready when it shows up.

#49
tdnordine

tdnordine

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 360 posts

When I first started playing, I was in the same camp as Jhaelen, and always wanted to have Burrowing Beneath, but recently I have shifted my approach and find that, like Obtuse, I can handle most supports for a turn if needed.  Plague Stone is the one exception.  I hate seeing that card show up, and will pack a cancel or two to deal with that, if possible.



#50
Obtuse

Obtuse

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 601 posts
Yea, I'm not here to say burrowing is a bad card, but I do feel it's more of a niche card for a certain kind of deck rather than the auto include all purpose cheap support destruction workhorse that Thunder is.

I've run burrowing in syndicate/shub decks where my resourcing often went to 2-2-2 and where a pstone would totally ruin my day.

Burrowing is only shub's second best answer to plague stone anyways. Savio (and a conspiracy) is the best way to weather it in my opinion. Other factions have better answers for it as well if you aren't mono. Miskatonic has Tetlow. Hastur has Performance Artist (and the lunatic in the forthcoming box that returns a support to hand). Silver Twilight has Prof George. In neutral Claret Knight will take the sting out of it as well. Granted this is all a little out of the scope of "best shub cards" discussion, but I mention these to highlight that there are better ways to get rid of the biggest threat that Burrowing would protect you from.

If you're crutching on burrowing to deal with anything else in the immediate time frame or its game over for your overall deck approach may need some looking at. There aren't many (any) "I win" cards in CoC that need to be immediately dealt with if you see the opposition play them.

#51
dboeren

dboeren

    Advanced Member

  • Contributor
  • PipPipPip
  • 2834 posts

I don't like keeping a 2-domain unused for something that MIGHT happen, so I typically prefer Thunder or Grasping Cthonian and try to leverage my domains harder.

 

Anyway... Black Dog off the list makes sense now that he's Restricted.  Toxemia is certainly a great card, but I also feel you need to build around it at least somewhat so it's not always a great fit.

 

There are several other really good cards in the new set that I think we need more experience with too.  People tend to do less experimenting during tournament season when the emphasis is on tuning their tried-and-true decks I think, so we haven't seen as many reports on the new stuff.

 

That said though, I really like Marsh Gug and some of the anti-rush control type cards seem strong too.



#52
Obtuse

Obtuse

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 601 posts

I don't like keeping a 2-domain unused for something that MIGHT happen


This. I've come to discover speed and tempo are a large part of having success in Cthulhu...whether you're slowing the pace down with a control deck or speeding it up in a rush deck. Holding your burrowing and a domain for a maybe hurts you more often than it helps because you aren't actively playing things to further your deck's win condition. I belive it's you that always gives the advice to always look to be proactive in this game rather than reactive. I 100% agree.

Toxemia being a conspiracy does require a deck be built around it, yes. Most of the good conspiracies are this way. Nobody would argue that negotium isn't really, really good. It does, however, take a deck engineered to cope with its effect to get the most mileage out of it. Toxemia is a card that's very much worthy of being built around. Certainly it's more impactful than, say, ya-te-vo which has made the shub 10?

#53
dboeren

dboeren

    Advanced Member

  • Contributor
  • PipPipPip
  • 2834 posts

True, needing to be built around shouldn't necessarily be a disqualifier for the list.



#54
Jhaelen

Jhaelen

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1082 posts

There are only two support cards I really fear enough to need gone immediately and keep a 2 domain open for. Plague Stone and Khopesh. Khopesh though you can immediately take care of with targeted character removal. Plague Stone is more problematic and can and often does shift a game dramatically.

Cthulhu's Temple Sacrifice is definitely a third card. To a lesser degree also Rite of the Silver Gate.

 

When I first started playing, I was in the same camp as Jhaelen, and always wanted to have Burrowing Beneath, but recently I have shifted my approach and find that, like Obtuse, I can handle most supports for a turn if needed.  Plague Stone is the one exception.  I hate seeing that card show up, and will pack a cancel or two to deal with that, if possible.

In theory I'd agree, however, what cancel events are there in the Shub faction?

 

I mention these to highlight that there are better ways to get rid of the biggest threat that Burrowing would protect you from.

Again, this is mostly irrelevant since this is a thread about Shub cards, only.

Savio + Conspiracy helps somewhat (and is strong enough to be considered a stable in Shub decks), but of course that's vulnerable in other ways (Day cards, Frozen Time, Foiled!, ...).

 

See, I've tried using Thunder in the East as a cheaper alternative to Burrowing Beneath many times. And I've _always_ regretted it. Of course it slows down your 'rush' to leave a 2+ domain open, but a Plague Stone you cannot defend against slows it down harder. Anyway, that's just my opinion.



#55
Obtuse

Obtuse

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 601 posts
We brought up some cards outside the shub pool to emphasize that what you're crutching on Burrowing Beneath to do can be better accomplished by a well rounded deck. We don't need to confine ourselves to only thinking about how good these cards are in mono shub decks to determine the best cards in the faction.

But staying inside Shub, Thunder in the East I still feel is the far superior choice.

Burrowing Beneath pros:
Can be used on opponents turn

Burrowing Beneath cons:
Cost 2
Must save a domain to protect against cards it counters, which opponent may or may not play.

Thunder in the East pros:
Cheap at cost 1
Allows you to draw a card

Thunder in the East cons:
Can only be played during your operations phase


So as I'm scoring the cards, thunder has more pros and fewer cons than burrowing. Are there certain situations where Burrowing is the better card to have in your hand? Yes. More often than not though thunder is the better option. Inside the scope of a "best shub cards" conversation I'm picking Thunder over Burrowing every single time because it's the cheap reliable workhorse, whereas burrowing is the more expensive situational card.





Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: shub