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5th Deluxe Expansion announced -Terror in Venice

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#41
alpha5099

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Sure! In terms of deckbuilding, in AGoT you are mostly limited to the house that you play. This is a sort of "macro-level" restriction which means that your effective cardpool when building a deck for any particular house is more or less one-sixth the overall cardpool. In CoC, there are no such "macro" restrictions which means that your effective card pool is...the entire cardpool. Most players tend to limit their decks to two factions, but it is possible to do 3 or more faction decks. Every time I go through the card pool on the search engine or just read through my cards, I discover new and interesting interactions between cards from different factions. In my opinion, this takes a lot of the emphasis off of what AGoTers call "Jamie" style deckbuilding, since the inherent nature of deckbuilding in CoC stresses card interactions. There are almost 100 different faction combinations you could do, with a myriad different card permutations within each combination.

In terms of tactical decisions, I feel that the three different challenge types (not to mention the dominance phase) is what makes AGoT shine as a game. AGoT allows you to pick and choose which challenges you want to let through; but since the board changes dramatically from round to round, it's much more about making the most of each individual challenges phase to maintain absolute card advantage. CoC has this is a slightly different but equally engaging form. Each time you commit to a story you have to think about how you will mitigate the effects of the 4 struggles, but all at once, and you're not safe from "claim" of struggles as the attacker. Simultaneously, you have to think a step ahead for your opponent's next turn. AGoT is a little more forgiving for power, so you see a lot of people leaving challenges unopposed in order to swing back to get power when they attack, but in CoC the stories act as threshholds - it's as if once you get to 5 power, you can't go below 5 power. This is what makes stories more critical in CoC than any individual challenge in AGoT, but also why CoC games tend to be faster. This gives the story phase in CoC a lot of pressure, and requires you to constantly think about maintaining enough board position to not fall too far behind.

I am a little hesitant to over simplify it, but think about the mechanical differences between AGoT and CoC. AGoT has a draw cap, relatively easy-obtained resources, a random discard mechanic, and ubiquitous reset mechanisms. CoC has no draw cap, relatively limited but scaling resources, and no real ubiquitous resets. This translates to me that AGoT is about absolute card advantage, while CoC is about relative board advantage. It's a slightly different way to think about approaching deckbuilding and playing the game.

(Sorry, I'm probably rambling a little since this is the first time I've tried to write out my thoughts on this subject.)


Wow, thank you for that, Danigral. Like Toqtamish I've been flirting with the idea of giving CoC a swing (though I'm in the process of a move for the next month and a half or so, so I probably wouldn't take the plunge until August at the earliest). As primarily an AGOT player, that was a great read that did a fantastic job laying out the similarities and key differences between the games. I've played most of the LCGs at this point, though Star Wars is the only other one I've kept up with. Once I'm settled after the move, I'll definitely go about finding a local CoC playgroup and see what I think of this game.

#42
dboeren

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I see your profile says you're in Atlanta (although I don't know about after your move). You're welcome to come and join our group and we'd be happy to teach you how to play. We meet on Tuesday nights at The Raven's Nest in Marietta. We show up around 5:30pm and play until about 9:30-10:00pm.

#43
badash56

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New preview up, this time showing Tom's 2011 champion card. A really interesting card IMO.

http://www.fantasyfl...s.asp?eidn=4250

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  • Danigral, Midian and orso like this

#44
Midian

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Awesome! Conspiracies has needed an overhaul and some new cardboard since the (bad) decision to make them work equally for both players (meaning conspiracies that give "your" characters a bonus gives the bonus to the opponents characters as well). This will hopefully shake up the game a bit and I love both the other conspiracies spoiled and Toms card seems really nice. It seems very much skewed towards weenie rush decks though, another feather in the hat for MU I guess.

#45
dboeren

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Interesting card, although I must say I don't consider it the best likeness of Tom - it has a comic book look to it or something. Looks like it circumvents the Prepared Alienist too which I think was a good call. Anyway, a lot depends on when it comes out. If very early, then it would nicely with a rush deck, but if played later you could be stealing a pretty nice character. What I really like is that it has interesting effects even if nobody wins it. You can play it to remove an important character solely to do that, and then take advantage of their absence to win the game at another story.

#46
orso

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... if played later you could be stealing a pretty nice character. What I really like is that it has interesting effects even if nobody wins it. You can play it to remove an important character solely to do that, and then take advantage of their absence to win the game at another story.


Yes, fits very nbice in a cthulhu deck withDragged into the Deep (WoP).
Let your opponent try to win the conspiracy, because he wants his character back! ... then remove it before it's won and steal your opponent the activities of a storyphase. ;)

Indeed the conspiracies look more interesting to me with this new card... :)

#47
Midian

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The thing with the new championship card: if you play many evenly matched chars you don't mind it. If you play an AO-rush deck of any kind you really don't like. It's also a great way of removing your opponents only blocker at the beginning of your operations phase before playing your own characters.

#48
Midian

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This looks very cool, and brings Night & Day back in a big way. The Conspiracies sounds awesome too, FFG is really going all out to reinforce some under-used mechanics in this set.

So just speculation here, but what if this pattern continues? Two faction boxes, then a setting box. It'll take longer to get all the factions out, but the late factions will get more cards in a setting box than they would in a faction box I think - plus it's the perfect place to concentrate on enhancing mechanics. I could go for that.

How about Syndicate, Hastur, and an Orient Express themed box for the next trio then? Anyone with me?


Just read through the whole thread and you sir have my vote!

#49
Tragic

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Looks like it circumvents the Prepared Alienist too which I think was a good call.


Why do you think this? Isn't this a "triggered effect" ?

#50
Midian

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The difference in wording between "put into play" and "return to play" I guess? I am not fully convinced myself it actually circumvents the Alienist.

#51
Jhaelen

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It's a powerful effect, but I think the Alienist will prevent you from returning the removed characters.
It's a first, though: The characters are actually removed from the game - whew! We didn't have anything like that yet in CoC.

#52
badash56

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I believe Prepared Alienist will block the character from changing control, that's it right?

#53
orso

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While there is another topic where it is about Azathoth (SoA) and a way to play it useful, an evil idea came up to my mind:

Playing Azathoth, than the conspiracy (taking Azathoth out of play), perhaps blocking other stories (byWill of Azathoth (TKatG) or
Elder Chasm (TKatG) or similar effects...) or just winning the stories by yourself?!
For sure your opponenent doesn't want to win the conspiracy because he would get Azathoth (can't choose. He gains control! And if there is no way to blank it or lose it in any way, end of turn means end of game for your opponent! ;D )

Little bit more nasty:
If opponent doesn't want to win the conspiracy, use Hack Journalist (DD) or Maurice Diggs (SoK) to let him win it! :D

okay, it's very theoretical and really needs a bunch of cards, but it's nasty, isn't it? ;)
I would say an epic way to win the game if it works.
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#54
Tragic

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Hahaha... awesome. Defiantly going to build this one at some point!! hehehe

#55
dboeren

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Why do you think this? Isn't this a "triggered effect" ?


My thinking is that "return to play under your control" is not the same as "changing control". The card was out of play. It HAD no controller. Coming into play under someone's control is not changing anymore than playing a character from hand who suddenly becomes under your control is changing.

#56
Zephyr

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Removing cards from play, and bringing them back is quite big and needs some rulings.
Maybe here will be more "exhile" in Terror in venice.
This whole discard recursion could use a good exhile to stop it.

#57
Danigral

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Did people see the other two? This makes the last of the 7 conspiracies I believe.
Posted ImagePosted Image
The first will be good for a rush deck as sacrifice effects were really their last major weakness. The other will be nice for control decks with big baddies.

#58
dboeren

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I think Unending Festivities would also be good for Syndicate as a way to strengthen their exhaust effects.
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#59
Jan

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Would also go well with a Syndicate/Silver Twilight to secure the Arcane struggle.

#60
Jhaelen

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Ha! Purity of Purpose works like an Agenda in Netrunner! I think, I approve :ph34r:

So far, since FFG stopped releasing APs, every Deluxe set added new rules. It looks like Terror in Venice is no exception.
I'm a bit worried by that. CoC is probably already the most complex of all the LCGs. Adding more rules with every new set is not exactly going to mitigate that...
  • Wilbur likes this