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Aragorn & Theodred


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22 replies to this topic

#1
Goldenrod

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If I commit both to a quest, can I give 1 resource to Aragorn and then use that resource to ready him? The FAQ says that committing characters is considered 1 action and then I choose in wich order to resolve the responses:

Really confused about this.

Thanks.

#2
Jiriki

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Hmm, not sure. Woudl had said no because iirc on the german cards the abilitiy triggers are described differently, but as they're stated here, I'd say yes^^

#3
Tiandes

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No, you can't.

Both are Response ability meaning it resolves as soon as the triggering effect take place.

Since Theodred gives the resource to another hero commited to a quest, Aragorn must alredy be commited to that quest.

Since Aragorn trigger his ability as soon as he's commiting to a quest, you must spend the resource immediately to ready him.

#4
Jhaelen

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Since Theodred gives the resource to another hero commited to a quest, Aragorn must alredy be commited to that quest.

If that interpretation was correct, Theodred could _never_ give the resource to another hero, since all characters are committed at the same time, i.e. none of them would already be committed at the time you can trigger his response.

Aragorn and Theodred are meant to be used that way. It's a built-in combo in the core set.

#5
Tiandes

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If that interpretation was correct, Theodred could _never_ give the resource to another hero, since all characters are committed at the same time, i.e. none of them would already be committed at the time you can trigger his response.

Aragorn and Theodred are meant to be used that way. It's a built-in combo in the core set.


Hmm, not sure about that, for me "response" is the same as the MtG instant, meaning it takes effect imediately. So, if you do declare Theodred first to commit, no other hero will get a resource, but if you wait after declaring Aragorn he can gives 1 extra resource to aragorn, but Aragorn can't use Theodred's extra resource to ready.

Aragorn can't just use it right away to ready since his ability states that he can pay 1 resource when he is commiting to a quest, meaning he needs to pay 1 resource he already have not the one he will get when Theodred will be commited to a quest.

I agree with you, this is a built-in combo, you just need to wait 1 turn to make it works or keep that first starting resource on Aragorn to ready him the first turn.

I might be wrong tough.

#6
renegadeshepherd

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as long as aragorn has one resource he can trigger his response. then you can quest theodred to give aragorn the resource. if aragorn des not have that one resource then the combo fails.

even though technically everyone is questing "at the same time", the order of who u declare does not happen at same time. upon ur declaring aragorn or theodred they have the optional response that is immediately resolved before any further exhasuting or declaration of questors. so if u have the one resource on gorn and play as mentioned above gorn commits for zero net cost.

#7
Jhaelen

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Well, I'm unconvinced, but I sent the question to FFG for clarification.

#8
Jhaelen

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And the answer's in:

Rule Question:
If I commit both Aragorn (core) and Theodred (core) to a quest, can I use Theodred's response to give 1 resource to Aragorn and then use that resource to ready him using his response?

Answer:
Yes. When you have multiple Response actions with the same trigger ("After XXXX commits to a quest..."), you can decide the order in which you want to resolve each Response. Since Aragorn and Theodred's ability share the same trigger, you can use Theodred's first and give the resource to Aragorn, allowing him to use his ability.
Cheers,
Caleb
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#9
Tiandes

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thanks, find it weird but makes it easier to play those 2!

#10
islegmar

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Sorry if the question has non sense, but I'm newbie in this game.
So, that means I can do:
- Assign both to the quest, Aragorn receives +1 resource
- Resolve the quest
- Prepare Aragorn using that +1 resource, so he can combat

Is that ok?

Thanks

#11
Booored

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If I commit both to a quest, can I give 1 resource to Aragorn and then use that resource to ready him? The FAQ says that committing characters is considered 1 action and then I choose in wich order to resolve the responses


No.. no you can't.. here is why...

Posted ImagePosted Image

These are responses .. so they can only be triggered just after the game event occurs. In the case of both of these guy the response happens at the very point you commit to the quest. Aragorn and Theodred committing to the quest is two different game events. They are not happening at teh same time. You tap one, to commit and then choose to use its ability and then you tap the other.

Theodred's ability has to choose another character already committed to the quest. So he needs to commit last as only cards already tapped for questing when you tap him can receive a token. Meanwhile Aragorn's ability occurs just after he commits. So to use his response you need to pay instantly. If you tap another card or do anything else, the response window has closed and you can no longer ready Aragorn.

So while you can use Theodred to place a token on Aragorn (if he tapped 1st), Aragorn's ability has already been used, or chosen not to be used..

#12
ojey

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As was officially ruled above. The combo is possible. There is statement why it is possible too.

#13
Booored

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it is bullshit. He doesn't know what he is talking about. You get this a lot with these direct comments.

#14
islegmar

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Hmmm, then I will play in the "combo mode" but this make this combination quite powerful! Thanks

#15
Jhaelen

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Sorry if the question has non sense, but I'm newbie in this game.
So, that means I can do:
- Assign both to the quest, Aragorn receives +1 resource
- Resolve the quest
- Prepare Aragorn using that +1 resource, so he can combat

Is that ok?

Thanks

Not quite. The correct order is thus:
- Assign both to the quest, Aragorn receives +1 resource, Ready Aragorn using that +1 resource
- Resolve the quest

You have to use Aragorn's response right after comitting him to the quest, i.e. simultaneously with Theodred's response.
It makes a difference because Aragorn is not exhausted while resolving the quest, and there are quite a few effects that are harmful to exhausted characters.

#16
islegmar

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Not quite. The correct order is thus:
- Assign both to the quest, Aragorn receives +1 resource, Ready Aragorn using that +1 resource
- Resolve the quest

You have to use Aragorn's response right after comitting him to the quest, i.e. simultaneously with Theodred's response.
It makes a difference because Aragorn is not exhausted while resolving the quest, and there are quite a few effects that are harmful to exhausted characters.


You're right, thanks, Aragorn must be ready while resolving the quest.

#17
FensTheSpook

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Hmm, not sure about that, for me "response" is the same as the MtG instant, meaning it takes effect imediately. So, if you do declare Theodred first to commit, no other hero will get a resource, but if you wait after declaring Aragorn he can gives 1 extra resource to aragorn, but Aragorn can't use Theodred's extra resource to ready.


I originally interpreted it this way as well, probably like you said because of my MTG experience.

#18
slothgodfather

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From the FAQ found here:

Q: Does a player commit his characters to a quest at
once, or one character at a time? When can a player
trigger responses to committing his characters to a
quest?

A: A player commits all characters he wishes to
commit to a quest at once. Responses to the characters
committing (such as those on Aragorn and Theodred)
can then be triggered in the order of that player’s
choice. After a player has committed his characters
(and triggered any responses to those characters
committing), the next player has the opportunity to
commit his characters to the quest.


So you commit them both at the same time, then you have the option of triggering Theodred's response first then Aragorn, or the reverse order.
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#19
Shadin

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it is *****. He doesn't know what he is talking about. You get this a lot with these direct comments.


It looks like the response came from Caleb, who is the lead developer for LOTR. So I would say that he does know what he's talking about, heh. Also, it's pretty obvious the card synergy between Aragorn and Theodred in the Core Set was an intentional combo.

This type of resolution is common in all LCGs. If you have responses/events that are all firing off at the same time, you get to choose the order in which they resolve unless otherwise directed by card text.

#20
Nerdmeister

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I´m just curious how this can still be an issue. That ruling, as well as the FAQ-update, is ancient news.