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- Thundering Calvary
Oct 12 2012 06:18 PM Should be titled: “Thundering Cavalry" - Doubting Septa
Oct 12 2012 06:13 PM Should have the trait: "Septon." - House of Shadows
Oct 12 2012 06:05 PM Should have the trait: "The East." - Restricted List: Melee
Oct 12 2012 06:04 PM The following cards are restricted for LCG tour... - Sorrowful Man
Aug 05 2012 03:55 PM Should read: "...Then, that character's... - Free Man
Aug 05 2012 03:54 PM Its traits should read: "Wildling. Refugee.... - Griff
Aug 05 2012 03:54 PM Should have the text: "House Targaryen only... - Archmaester Marwyn
Aug 05 2012 03:53 PM Should read: "The opponent to your left…... - Before the Black Walls
Aug 05 2012 03:50 PM "When revealed, name a challenge type. In o... - Castle Battlements
Aug 05 2012 03:49 PM Should read: "Attached location is immune t...
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Card Comments Portal (20)
The Brimstone
Today, 07:14 PM by doulos2k
Well, we rarely run into it, but ALL response timing suffers from this same issue... especially during a Framework Action Window because Responses CANNOT occur until ALL Framework Events have completed AND Passives to those Framework Events have also happened.
So, hypothetically, if there were effects that discarded cards during the save/cancel step of EVERY framework event during the challenge resolution FAW, any card that could respond to discard effects would still have to wait until the Response step to respond to each of those discard effects. We just tend to think of claim as a more singular event, but it isn't. The only thing that's happening is the delay that's required by the Framework rules - responses to all framework events and passives (that aren't saves/cancels) must wait until the response window opens.
Today, 07:14 PM by doulos2k
Well, we rarely run into it, but ALL response timing suffers from this same issue... especially during a Framework Action Window because Responses CANNOT occur until ALL Framework Events have completed AND Passives to those Framework Events have also happened.
So, hypothetically, if there were effects that discarded cards during the save/cancel step of EVERY framework event during the challenge resolution FAW, any card that could respond to discard effects would still have to wait until the Response step to respond to each of those discard effects. We just tend to think of claim as a more singular event, but it isn't. The only thing that's happening is the delay that's required by the Framework rules - responses to all framework events and passives (that aren't saves/cancels) must wait until the response window opens.
The Brimstone
Today, 07:00 PM by 14Shirt
Thanks for clarifying, Doulos, and providing an actual rule, Sloth.
Honestly, it makes sense given the language of the card itself, but I wasn't aware you could have a response "within" a single claim (i.e. between the first and second discard). I guess technically it is occuring after claim but responding to both discards, but still.
Today, 07:00 PM by 14Shirt
Thanks for clarifying, Doulos, and providing an actual rule, Sloth.
Honestly, it makes sense given the language of the card itself, but I wasn't aware you could have a response "within" a single claim (i.e. between the first and second discard). I guess technically it is occuring after claim but responding to both discards, but still.
The Brimstone
Today, 06:33 PM by slothgodfather
(1.1) Drawing Multiple Cards
When a player draws multiple cards (e.g., by
drawing 2 cards during his draw phase, or due
to a card effect like that of Insidious Ways
(CORE L163), he is considered to be drawing
them one at a time, not all at once. This is
important for effects that may trigger by a card
being drawn.
Assuming this is similar for "discard multiple cards" then it further justifies Doulos's answer.
Today, 06:33 PM by slothgodfather
(1.1) Drawing Multiple Cards
When a player draws multiple cards (e.g., by
drawing 2 cards during his draw phase, or due
to a card effect like that of Insidious Ways
(CORE L163), he is considered to be drawing
them one at a time, not all at once. This is
important for effects that may trigger by a card
being drawn.
Assuming this is similar for "discard multiple cards" then it further justifies Doulos's answer.
The Brimstone
Today, 05:05 PM by doulos2k
@14shirt - Even though the discard happens during claim, each card discarded is providing a response opportunity for Brimstone. The play restriction for Brimstone's response is that A (singular) card is discarded from the opponent's hand. When the Response window opens, multiple cards have still been discarded, so the play restriction has been met multiple times. Since Brimstone does not have self-limiting text, it can respond to each discarded card.
The discard happening during claim doesn't suddenly lump all cards into a single effect as there is no game rule that would lump all elements in a single Framework Event into a singular element for the sake of passives and responses. It's the card's play restriction text that is doing the responding that governs what can be done. Since Brimstone specifically says after A card is discarded - it's looking back throughout the entire Framework Action Window (in this particular example since the question was about claim) to see if there were any effects that discarded cards and then it can respond to each and every single one of those because its text says it can.
EDIT: Sorry - looks like I basically said the same thing twice there... just in a different way.
Today, 05:05 PM by doulos2k
@14shirt - Even though the discard happens during claim, each card discarded is providing a response opportunity for Brimstone. The play restriction for Brimstone's response is that A (singular) card is discarded from the opponent's hand. When the Response window opens, multiple cards have still been discarded, so the play restriction has been met multiple times. Since Brimstone does not have self-limiting text, it can respond to each discarded card.
The discard happening during claim doesn't suddenly lump all cards into a single effect as there is no game rule that would lump all elements in a single Framework Event into a singular element for the sake of passives and responses. It's the card's play restriction text that is doing the responding that governs what can be done. Since Brimstone specifically says after A card is discarded - it's looking back throughout the entire Framework Action Window (in this particular example since the question was about claim) to see if there were any effects that discarded cards and then it can respond to each and every single one of those because its text says it can.
EDIT: Sorry - looks like I basically said the same thing twice there... just in a different way.
The Brimstone
Today, 04:05 PM by 14Shirt
I have to admit I'm confused by this response. Isn't discarding two cards as part of a 2 claim the same action? So first you resolve claim and then have the opportunity to respond, no? How can a player respond to each of the discarded cards in a single (2 or more) claim?
Today, 04:05 PM by 14Shirt
doulos2k, on 24 May 2012 - 03:58 PM, said:
Yes - there's no limiting text that says 1 or more cards. You could trigger this every time a card is discarded from any opponent's hand.
A related example of a card that shows a limiting exception is Corpse Lake (TBC) - it's per effect in that case, not per card. That exception doesn't exist here.
A related example of a card that shows a limiting exception is Corpse Lake (TBC) - it's per effect in that case, not per card. That exception doesn't exist here.
I have to admit I'm confused by this response. Isn't discarding two cards as part of a 2 claim the same action? So first you resolve claim and then have the opportunity to respond, no? How can a player respond to each of the discarded cards in a single (2 or more) claim?
Tyrion Lannister
Today, 03:21 PM by slothgodfather
Nope. While you can trigger responses on different cards to the same trigger, there is a rule that you can only trigger a specific response once per trigger. So, after you win an INT challenge with Tyrion, you can trigger this response once, but you can also trigger others like Condemned by the Council (AToT) and Terminal Schemes (LotR).
Without this rule, a player using The Siege of Winterfell (LoW) could simply trigger the response 8 times after they win their first MIL challenge
Today, 03:21 PM by slothgodfather
Nope. While you can trigger responses on different cards to the same trigger, there is a rule that you can only trigger a specific response once per trigger. So, after you win an INT challenge with Tyrion, you can trigger this response once, but you can also trigger others like Condemned by the Council (AToT) and Terminal Schemes (LotR).
Without this rule, a player using The Siege of Winterfell (LoW) could simply trigger the response 8 times after they win their first MIL challenge
Tyrion Lannister
Today, 02:47 PM by ebej
if i have 3 gold and win a chall with tyrion can i draw 3 cards ?
Today, 02:47 PM by ebej
if i have 3 gold and win a chall with tyrion can i draw 3 cards ?
Blackwater Rush
Today, 06:30 AM by celric
This will get better with the new neutral warship that allows you to grant unique characters Naval.
Today, 06:30 AM by celric
This will get better with the new neutral warship that allows you to grant unique characters Naval.
Griff
Today, 04:25 AM by Prophit618
He fails to meet the qualifications of being your only agenda and thus just carries on dying. So #1.
Today, 04:25 AM by Prophit618
He fails to meet the qualifications of being your only agenda and thus just carries on dying. So #1.
Griff
Today, 12:37 AM by MagoLazovic
If u are running an agenda, and Griff die, what happen?
1) He go to dead pile
2) He get attached as an agenda (that can't use his text/ability), but u can still play one more copy of him, cos he isn't in dead pile.
Today, 12:37 AM by MagoLazovic
If u are running an agenda, and Griff die, what happen?
1) He go to dead pile
2) He get attached as an agenda (that can't use his text/ability), but u can still play one more copy of him, cos he isn't in dead pile.
The Viper's Bannermen
Yesterday, 04:56 PM by 14Shirt
So do cards gained this way (i.e. "reveal and put into hand") count against your draw cap?
Yesterday, 04:56 PM by 14Shirt
So do cards gained this way (i.e. "reveal and put into hand") count against your draw cap?
Pike Phalanx
Yesterday, 04:19 PM by agktmte
You can't naval two characters at once. The naval enhancement is an action for each one. So even if you give the phalanx a naval enhancement, you can't declare two naval attackers at the same time. So the only way to use Pike Phalanx is to declare it with a war crest character in the framework action window for declaring attackers.
Yesterday, 04:19 PM by agktmte
You can't naval two characters at once. The naval enhancement is an action for each one. So even if you give the phalanx a naval enhancement, you can't declare two naval attackers at the same time. So the only way to use Pike Phalanx is to declare it with a war crest character in the framework action window for declaring attackers.
Pike Phalanx
Yesterday, 01:50 PM by Fede
Shadowcat, are you saying that the ability triggers if you declare both this AND another character with a WAR crest, both as navals? If so, I agree, but I got a bit confused about what you were trying to say.
At first, I read it as: You declare a challenge with a war character, THEN naval only Pike Phalanx, and I don't think that triggers the response. Again, because they're not being declared together. If you declare both the Phalanx and a War character as Navals, then yeah, I'd agree that triggers it.
Yesterday, 01:50 PM by Fede
Shadowcat, are you saying that the ability triggers if you declare both this AND another character with a WAR crest, both as navals? If so, I agree, but I got a bit confused about what you were trying to say.
At first, I read it as: You declare a challenge with a war character, THEN naval only Pike Phalanx, and I don't think that triggers the response. Again, because they're not being declared together. If you declare both the Phalanx and a War character as Navals, then yeah, I'd agree that triggers it.
Coin Mint
Yesterday, 01:45 PM by Fede
There's a very similar discussion regarding Whispers from the Hill (ASoSilence). I understand, too, that "up to" can include 0, but some people argue that the "then" effect would not be triggered if you move 0 power. I'm not so convinced that the rules are clear regarding "up to" and "any number", and I don't feel the distinction between the two is so obvious.
Yesterday, 01:45 PM by Fede
OKTarg, on 21 May 2013 - 11:30 PM, said:
Although this makes perfect sense, consider the rulings on Young Griff. "After YG comes out of shadows, stand any number of characters you control." But, if you stand 0 characters, you won't get the Then part of the effect (to bring another dude out of shadows). This implies to me that zero is in fact not a valid number and I would argue that "Up to" can be zero (as in City of Sin) but that "any number" is a non-zero integer greater than or equal to one.
Gotta love AGoT rules.
Of course, I could be wrong.....
Gotta love AGoT rules.
Of course, I could be wrong.....
There's a very similar discussion regarding Whispers from the Hill (ASoSilence). I understand, too, that "up to" can include 0, but some people argue that the "then" effect would not be triggered if you move 0 power. I'm not so convinced that the rules are clear regarding "up to" and "any number", and I don't feel the distinction between the two is so obvious.
Pike Phalanx
Yesterday, 11:50 AM by JCWamma
As outlined in this Q&TR, sloth has the right of it. The word "with" means naval won't play nicely with it.
Yesterday, 11:50 AM by JCWamma
As outlined in this Q&TR, sloth has the right of it. The word "with" means naval won't play nicely with it.
Coin Mint
Yesterday, 09:45 AM by JCWamma
OKTarg is correct. For the same reason, you cannot choose to kneel 0 Warships with Naval Escort (ASitD). And in case you're wondering why you'd ever want to do that, sometimes you want an effect to be cancelled, for instance so you could kneel Maester Murenmure (CbtC) with a bunch of chains or to 'use up' the cancel of The Painted Table (TBC).
Yesterday, 09:45 AM by JCWamma
OKTarg is correct. For the same reason, you cannot choose to kneel 0 Warships with Naval Escort (ASitD). And in case you're wondering why you'd ever want to do that, sometimes you want an effect to be cancelled, for instance so you could kneel Maester Murenmure (CbtC) with a bunch of chains or to 'use up' the cancel of The Painted Table (TBC).
Coin Mint
Yesterday, 03:52 AM by slothgodfather
Ah, I didn't recall that about YG. Then I would agree with OKTarg's stance.
Yesterday, 03:52 AM by slothgodfather
Ah, I didn't recall that about YG. Then I would agree with OKTarg's stance.
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