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No Use For Grief

Submitted Darksbane , Jan 20 2011 05:30 PM | Last updated Jan 26 2011 02:36 AM

No Use For Grief

Type: Event House: Martell
Cost:
Game Text:

House Martell only.
Response: After a Sand Snake character is killed, kneel 1 influence to search your deck for 1 Sand Snake character, reveal it, and add it to your hand. (Kneel 3 influence to search for any number of Sand Snake characters and put them into play instead if The Red Viper was just killed.) Then shuffle your deck.
Number: 116 Set: DB
Quantity: 3 Illustrator: Skysoul Visual Art Studios

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30 Comments

SpiderMonkey
Sep 13 2011 07:44 PM

Let's imagine that Red Viper just died and this was played. Would the Martell player get to bring out all of their Sand Snakes with duplicates or only one of each? My thinking for letting the dupes come out is because it says "any number" and so you can put out several of Obella (for example). Since only one copy of a unique can be out, then the others would attach to her. My thinking for only allowing one of each is that dupes can usually only be placed during the marshalling phase. Which is right? And since both of my reasons are probably wrong, why is the right one right?

Enrico
Sep 13 2011 08:53 PM

I am a total noob, so my opinion might no be correct at all, but I think that (as you said) duplicates are always "played" (or better said, "attached", as it is written in Rhaegal(core)) during the marshalling phase, and never "put into play" (which is the expression that is used in the card). Plus, the other option would be extremely powerful, and I don't think the game designers would allow such a thing.

Laxen
Sep 14 2011 08:06 AM

Enrico is right. You can't put into play a unique card with the same name as a unique card you already controls. Duplicates are attached from your hand, not automatically triggered when you have two unique card with the same name in play. Thankfully, cos else this card would be a real terror. I would never dare to kill the Red Viper

Darksbane
Sep 15 2011 01:58 PM

Sorry Enrico/Laxen, It is true that you can only "play" duplicates during the marshaling phase but you can use "put into play" abilities on unique characters you already have in play. They are immediately attached as a duplicate to the unique card.

The ruling is based around page 9 section 3.27 of the FAQ

Quote

You may not play, put into play, or take control of a unique card already in play that you own or control (except for putting a duplicate on a card that you own and control),

Duplicates are an exception to the normal play rules for playing and putting into play, so by using a put into play ability you are bypassing the normal timing rules to play duplicates the same way you bypass the normal timing rules for playing a non-duplicate card.

So yes you can play alot of sand snakes and dupes with this card.

Laxen
Sep 16 2011 09:58 PM

Oops. I might have expressed myself a bit too confidently there. I was quite sure that the core rules stated that one could not "play or put into play" unique cards that you already controlled, but I guess I got I mixed up with something else. My bad.

Laxen
Sep 17 2011 10:14 AM

This is insane though. That's a lot of free characters. Knights of the Hollow Hill, Summoning Season for Red Viper, make sure to have enough influence giving cards to get 1 influence on your starting hand. Every game play Red Viper turn 1, have him killed, and search your deck for 3 copies of each Sand Snake and put them into play. That's 5 unique characters with 2x duplicates, which is enough to handle a Valar without problem and 3 Bastard Daughter...

Darksbane
Sep 17 2011 02:55 PM

Well you'd actually need 3 influence to trigger the sand snake put into play part but yep it is powerful when you can get it to go off.

Laxen
Sep 17 2011 05:09 PM

That's what KotHH is for (and an additional 1 influence from another source), along with +2 gold to be able to play the Red Viper first round since Summoning Season only gives 4 gold

Mortuss
Sep 18 2011 01:38 PM

I think you got it wrong Darksbane, when you look at the core text rules, i says :
"If you have a duplicate (another card of the same name) of a unique card in your hand but you already control and own a version of that card currently in play, you may attach the duplicate from your hand to the unique card in play, for no gold cost, during your marshalling."
I think the part in the FAQ is just a bad choice of words, it should be "(except for placing a duplicate on
a card that you own and control)" that would avoid any confusion.

Mortuss
Sep 18 2011 04:20 PM

so it seems like i got it wrong,got this response on the offic forums from ktom :
"The rule for uniques say that you cannot play or put into play copies of unique cards you already have in play, except for duplicates. So duplicates can come into play as an exception to the usual limitation placed on unique cards.

So if you have a "put into play" effect and you use it on a copy of a unique card you already have in play, that second copy enters play as a duplicate on the copy that is in play. This works for any "put into play" effect, including bringing unique cards out of Shadows."
So sry, you da boss

Laxen
Sep 19 2011 08:18 AM

A tricky ruling

cupcakewinterfell
Dec 31 2011 03:57 AM

This is a nightmarish card to go up against and, aside from Stark's card blanking, the game is essentially over with that many sand snakes all buffing eachother

at 3x each, tri-icon, stealth, deadly, dont kneel if they loose as defenders it's a pretty quick death too!

jedilanni
Jan 02 2012 11:58 PM

I played against a sandsnake deck in melee and it won even since we all wildfired and valar and it still won hands down it was awesome to watch that deck in action.

Amuk
Apr 28 2012 03:26 PM

KotHH won't work for the combo. The Red Viper only gets his mass kill ability if you aren't running an agenda.

manutd14
Jun 25 2012 01:12 PM

With No Use for Grief you can't put into play Sand Snakes from your hand right? Is it only for deck searching?

Staton
Jun 25 2012 01:34 PM

Correct

slothgodfather
Jun 25 2012 03:05 PM

And if they are already in play (or your dead pile) you cannot search them either.

Staton
Jun 25 2012 04:04 PM

If they are in play you can search for duplicates of them.

slothgodfather
Jun 25 2012 04:21 PM

A fair enough, I was remembering that wrong. I still get half credit right? :ph34r:

Staton
Jun 25 2012 04:40 PM

I feel generous, have two-thirds credit!

Laxen
Jun 26 2012 07:16 AM

I vote for that it's OK to be wrong about this card every now and then. It's pretty much become the social norm.

manutd14
Jun 29 2012 06:10 AM

Let's say that
The Red Viper (PotS) is killed, I play No Use For Grief (DB). Which cards can cancel that response? May I then, cancel the cancel response and play another No Use For Grief (DB)?

Ire
Jun 29 2012 11:45 AM

Lets see it has influence cost so that leaves paper shield and he calls it thinking out. Cards that can cancel it:
Seasick (KotS), To Be a Kraken (SB), Alannys Greyjoy (ODG),
Finger Dance (WLL), Oldtown Advisor (GotC) with enough chains, Herald of the King (BoRF), The Hand's Judgement (TTotH), The Painted Table (TBC), Borderland Keep (TWH) when its M challenge, Bronze Shield (BtW), Doran's Game (GotC), Tom Sevenstrings (RoR), Maester Murenmure (CbtC) if you somehow manage to do it in marshalling,
Sunspear Tourney Grounds (ODG).

Wow thats actually quite many cards we currently have that can cancel such event. Now if you play another one you are not cancelling the cancel response (you could do that thou with your own cancel) its just completely new event being played.

slothgodfather
Jun 29 2012 03:17 PM

Yea, depending on the type of cancel they used (event, character ability or location ability) then you could cancel that triggered effect, which would mean your original NUFG event would still trigger. Or you can simply kneel more influence and play another copy of the event and hope they don't have another way of cancelling it.

manutd14
Sep 07 2012 01:07 PM

Let's say that
No Use For Grief (DB) combo with Red Viper is in action. Next opponent's plot is valar. So, assuming that you have one copy of every unique sand snake (you saved them with duplicates), you have a lot of non unique kills and let's say that it is in an early stage of the game. Do you think that it is a good plan? Can you win a game like that in regular circumstances?