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Ultra Marines?


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#1
MotoBuzzsawMF

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So, in my travels I have noticed that a huge amount of people hate the Ultra Marines. Why is that?

#2
BobaFett

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basically, in the 40k table top game they are the poster boys for 40k, and they seem to get the most attention, best codex's, most face time all that good stuff, and really they are also the most "vanilla" space marine chapter.

I'll explain a bit further though, there are 18 total space marine chapters (2 more that something mysteriously happened to and we know nothing about), 9 loyal legions and 9 traiter legions. then there are many more second founded chapters that were devised using gene seed (DNA) from those legions to make more.

The ultramarines are the least divergent chapter. They are very honorable, and the "ultimate" good guys, where as some of the other chapters have flaws within their gene seeds that make them a bit more divergent and sometimes even seem somewhere in the middle between good/bad, even though they are good. A few examples of this are the Blood Angels, also known as the vampires of 40k. they have a flaw in their gene seed that causes them to go into a unstoppable bloodlust during battle and then even have to be put down by their own chapter after the battle because their mind is lost and they are nothing more than a crazed psychopath. they are specialized in CC. The space wolves grow long canines and are the vikings of 40k and are also known for their unorthodox tactics. very charismatic, but BRUTAL in their art of war, also taking a liking to CC. The Dark Angels entire legion split in 2 at the time of the horus heresy, half went traitor (called the fallen), half went loyalist, and so they forever bear the shame of this(even though most don't even know it happened, even amost their own chapter). They search out these Fallen that still live to the extreme, even shunning allies in their time if need if they even hear of the possibility of a fallen angel being near. The imperoial fists are known for their ability to fortify and get dug in. the iron hands are known for their cybernetics, and their forging of weapons. most of the chapter has cybernectis of some form, even though most legions shun most technology such as that. the ravenguard are hit and run, and recon specialists. the salamanders have obsidian black skin from living on a volcanic world and love mid ranged combat with fire based weapons such as flamers and melta. Lastly the white scars are the speed freaks of the bunch. they enjoy attacking in formations riding into battle on their beefed up motorcycles.

anyways, thats the just of the space marine chapters/legions. if you want to know more about specific ones just ask.
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#3
Toqtamish

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There's actually 1000 chapters. There was 18 original legions. The loyalist legions were all broken up at the end of the Heresy into smaller chapters of approximately 1000 marines. Most follow the Codex organization and the Ultramarines and their successor chapters follow it the most closely due to the fact it was written by the Ultramarines Primarch Roboute Guilliman.

Ultramarines tend to be the least unique and interesting thus a lot of the hate.
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#4
Skelton

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Ultramarines have some nice models (Calgars Honour Guard especially) but compared to the sheer awesomeness of Space Wolves, Dark Angels and White Scars they are a bunch of boy scouts. I like my Marines flawed, preferably with extended canines and names like Bjorn the Fell Handed or Ulric the Slayer.

You may have guessed I am a Space Wolf fan.
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#5
Asklepios

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There's actually 1000 chapters. There was 18 original legions. The loyalist legions were all broken up at the end of the Heresy into smaller chapters of approximately 1000 marines. Most follow the Codex organization and the Ultramarines and their successor chapters follow it the most closely due to the fact it was written by the Ultramarines Primarch Roboute Guilliman.

Ultramarines tend to be the least unique and interesting thus a lot of the hate.


There are approximately 1000 chapters, but the nature of the 40k bureaucracy is such that its not certain there are that number. Each is meant to be of a 1000 marines, but some are much larger (Space Wolves and Black Templars especially) and many are much smaller, due to various losses (Scythes of the Emperor, Lamenters, for example). Almost certainly chapters are wiped out all the time, and new ones are founded. All in all, its more likely than not that "1000 chapters" is a propaganda statement rather than a reality, in universe.

There were 20 Legions in the First Founding. http://warhammer40k..../First_Founding
Easy mistake to make though, as 2 have always been stated as "Missing and deleted from Imperial records", and this is one piece of fluff that GW have never told us anything more about.

As to Ultramarine hate, its from multiple sources.

First, as has been noted, they're often seen as being boring, the vanilla marines. This was true in many editions, but actually in their present incarnation they've got at least as much history and character as any other chapter.

Second, they received way too much love from GW, compared to other chapters. This has been toned down over time. They often got the best rules, the most coverage in White Dwarf, and so on. This made fans of other chapters resentful.

Third, they are good guys. They represent the Imperium as a utopia, with benevolent nobles, a balance of order and freedom, and so on. For those who prefer grimdark (and as we're talking 40k fans here...) they held little appeal.

Personally, I like the Ultramarines. I like em more than the silly and broken Space Wolves with their space-a-viking and giant wolf mounts. I like em more than the angsty and broody Dark Angels. I like em more than the anne-rice-wannabe Blood Angels. I like em more than the late-on-the-scene so-brave-they-flee-towards-the-enemy Black Templars. Basically I like them because the silliness of 40k appeals to me less than some. I like them less than I like the Imperial Fists, though...

#6
Thelovebus

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I am actually a Sisters of Battle Fan While They are Not marines They are the Closest Female Thing.

#7
dboeren

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Nobody likes the teacher's pet.
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#8
MotoBuzzsawMF

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I am actually a huge fan and history buff of Genghis Khan so the White Scars appeal to my interests.

I can also see the appeal of the ultra marines since they seem to be the "White Knights" of 40K universe.

Am I correct in this assumption?

#9
BobaFett

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I am actually a huge fan and history buff of Genghis Khan so the White Scars appeal to my interests.

I can also see the appeal of the ultra marines since they seem to be the "White Knights" of 40K universe.

Am I correct in this assumption?


for the most part.

I would say the Black templars are really the "knights" of 40k. The ultramarines are the Boys in Blue, the honorable nobles, the goody two shoes, loyal to a fault etc etc. they are honored on a million worlds where as some other chapters are somewhat less "loved" But the white scars are certainly the "mongols" of the 40kverse complete with Fu manchus and asian looks, their bikes are their "calvery" and they hit fast and hard similar to the mongols of history.

the great thing is, from what it looks liek, they will be releasing all kinds of leaders with a bodyguard to build your deck around, so your sure to see heroes from every chapter and every race. I am a dark angel and blood angel guy, so i'll be looking forward to Azreal, and Dante, but most of all, Mephiston. He is one of the baddest MoFos in 40k.
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#10
MotoBuzzsawMF

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I expect this to be the case but I hope in further conquest packs, they release other commanders from the other space marine chapters. Or even go nuts with Primarch cards.

#11
dboeren

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The Warlord seems to fill the same role as the Identity card in Netrunner, except that it's also a character so they also go into battle and can die, plus they come with 8 cards that go into your deck to help carry their theme further.

Anyway, I think it's going to turn out very well where each faction gets more Warlords over time and their 8-card signature squad can contain units, events, and supports that are exclusive to them and carry their fluff. So if they come out with a White Scars Warlord he'll have some biker units, maybe some kind of "hit & run" event, possibly a Fu Manchu Mustache attachment, etc... And, he'll have some kind of in-theme special ability. Maybe because of their speed one unit on his side can strike first at the start of each battle or something.
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#12
HappyDD

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People dislike the Ultramarines because they feel threatened by their amazingness.
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#13
Toqtamish

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I never count Legions II or XI as they never got pass the factory floor as far as we know. I keep hoping the Horus Heresy will cover them or at least their Primarchs.

BuzzsawMF, most of the Loyal Primarchs are dead or missing and not active participants in 40,999 CE.
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#14
MotoBuzzsawMF

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I never count Legions II or XI as they never got pass the factory floor as far as we know. I keep hoping the Horus Heresy will cover them or at least their Primarchs.

BuzzsawMF, most of the Loyal Primarchs are dead or missing and not active participants in 40,999 CE.


Ah I see. I am not that far into the lore yet.

#15
LesterCrow

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As an Imperial Guard fan I've always just sorta glossed over the whole Space Marine thing. I know that they are "the corner stone" of 40k but I just find them all kinda over the top and silly. I have a working understanding of the Legions and Chapters but I just cant seem to get behind the whole Space Marine thing.

I do like blue though so I don't have any problem with the Ultramarines, although I find the name to be a funny play on the whole painting thing. I am looking forward to playing Guard/SM though so I hope the mechanics mesh well.
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#16
Skelton

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I never count Legions II or XI as they never got pass the factory floor as far as we know. I keep hoping the Horus Heresy will cover them or at least their Primarchs.

BuzzsawMF, most of the Loyal Primarchs are dead or missing and not active participants in 40,999 CE.


Bring back Leman Russ.
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#17
Toqtamish

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He's supposedly out there somewhere.

#18
Skelton

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Wandering the realms of chaos if I remember correctly.

#19
Asklepios

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I never count Legions II or XI as they never got pass the factory floor as far as we know. I keep hoping the Horus Heresy will cover them or at least their Primarchs.

BuzzsawMF, most of the Loyal Primarchs are dead or missing and not active participants in 40,999 CE.


Most? Which ones are still active, out of curiosity? I thought that all the loyal ones were either in the grave, or vanished into myth (like Russ).

#20
Asklepios

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I am actually a huge fan and history buff of Genghis Khan so the White Scars appeal to my interests.

I can also see the appeal of the ultra marines since they seem to be the "White Knights" of 40K universe.

Am I correct in this assumption?


Noble Romans/Greeks is probably closer to their current incarnation. They've got the whole greco-roman aesthetic in their minis, Ultramar systems are often described in terms of classical architecture (white marble and the like). They're the philosopher-kings, erudite lawmakers, soldierly warriors of the Imperium.

Marneus Augustus Calgar is their current leader dude, for example.

As has been noted, the Black Templars (as you might guess from the name) are more knightly, in that they form Crusades, they have a sword-wielding Emperor's Champion, they say thou and thee too much, swear vows before battle, kneel in prayer in the chapel, and so on.
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