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Legend of the Five Rings LCG
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|Recent Card Discussion|
May 16 2018 01:19 PM by Asklepios
So in a spell-heavy meta, this guy is proving surprisingly useful, especially as that Shugenja trait helps enable Cloud the Mind, which seems to be a nearly vital card these days.
However, fact that you can't play into the conflict is a real pain, as it means the combat math doesn't shift much: it's basically a counterspell that can't be counterspelled, with an extra bonus of a 2/2/1 with a good trait for one turn
That's still worth a copy or two, in my mind.
And sure, there's those that'll argue that you might not see spell events at all in some opponent's decks. To them I'd point out it's just one card, and Scorpion draws faster than any other clan. I wouldn't run a situational conditional card in many clans, but in Scorpion you can afford to do so.
Mono No Aware
May 15 2018 08:14 AM by Stefan2581
As if scorpion needed more ways to make opponents feel miserable.
Mono No Aware
May 15 2018 06:34 AM by Asklepios
Maybe in a City of Lies deck? Would seem to synergise well with Scorpion conflict denial.
May 14 2018 04:42 PM by Stefan2581
Henshin Disciple says: While you have claimed or are contesting
So, after is different than while .
Henshin Disciple asks if you have the ring in your claimed ring pool ( which you do , because it is considered to be in your ring pool / claimed )
Asakao Tsuki asks if you just claimed the ring, which you didn't , because it just sits there in your claimed ring pool (virtually).
May 14 2018 01:55 PM by Curtis
Exactly, that's why I don't understand how it counts for Henshin Disciple and not Asako Tsuki.
From the RRG: Rings Rings, represented by double-sided tokens, are used to determine the type and element of conflicts. Each ring exists in one of three states, as follows: Unclaimed — Each ring in the unclaimed ring pool is an unclaimed ring, and is eligible to be selected by a player as a part of the process of declaring a conflict. Contested — While a conflict is resolving, the ring that has been selected by the attacker when the conflict was declared is placed on the attacked province. This ring is known as the contested ring. Claimed — When a player wins a conflict, that player claims the contested ring and places it into his or her claimed ring pool. I can see how it is confusing, because the rrg doesnt exactly say that a ring in the claimed ring pool is a claimed ring, like it says for unclaimed rings. But a ring being claimed is placed in the claimed ring pool, and exists in the state "claimed", thus it is a claimed ring.
Mono No Aware
May 12 2018 05:18 AM by Severijn
It is either a card you want to build your deck around, or a card that you play as a singleton for the surprise factor. The effect is very powerful and also very situational.
The places where I tried it in was in a heavy event driven unicorn deck that is trying to resolve cavalry reserves. You try to make this affordable and somewhat reliable by splashing phoenix for display of power so that you can contest the imperial favor. You play shinjo scout plus windswept yurt in order to hoard fate. Mono no Aware is your tool against decks that try to keep characters in play. With cavalry reserve you have a greater ability to get back on board with a province break from almost nothing in play. While I think the concept might work, currently unicorn does not have the dynasty character set that would really enable this plan.
The other place was in crane with kakita yoshi for potential discounts. You play this together with silver-tongued magistrate as the 4th and 5th copy of consumed by five fires (jank warning!). This combination makes it trivial to break a province, though the set-up cost is pretty extreme. You also need to play a larger contingent of shugenjas to try this plan. In the games in which I tried this, it worked well, but I usually already won way before I pulled off this combo.
In conclusion: I have found edge cases for it. I think it is a reasonable card to play as a one-off in your go-wide decks.
Mono No Aware
May 11 2018 04:55 PM by NuFenix
I'm curious if people have found this to be worth it? 3 fate is costly, and you need to make sure you can handle taking fate off your own characters to. But a heavy control deck with this and Waning Hostilities could really annoy some decks.
May 08 2018 08:07 AM by Asklepios
So this guy is a clear star player for New Phoenix, as he can easily reduce a huge hand of cards to nothing for event-driven clans like Lion, Crane and Scorpion. He's walking proof that virtual card advantage is a real thing. Also helpful is his Shugenja trait, and his synergy with Solemn Scholar.
An attachment driven game handles him slightly more easily, but he's efficient even then.
For any clan that wants to run off events, it's become increasingly clear that you either need to diversify your event choices (running more 1x and 2x, which is inherently inefficient of course), or dilute those events with more characters and attachments, or to find a way to run and carry blanking tech, which for the most part means Cloud The Mind.
All in all, I'd say this is a strong and competitive card that is perhaps a little bit overpowered compared to most 5-cost characters. However, like most cards that are a little bit overpowered (Policy Debate, A Fate Worse Than Death, etc.) there's answers available, so it becomes all about the metagame.
The main reason for this spiel is that you can't meta against this guy unless you know how dangerous he is.
Make sure you know how dangerous he is!
May 08 2018 06:20 AM by Stefan2581
From the RRG:
Rings, represented by double-sided tokens, are used to determine the type and element of conflicts. Each ring exists in one of three states, as follows:
Unclaimed — Each ring in the unclaimed ring pool is an unclaimed ring, and is eligible to be selected by a player as a part of the process of declaring a conflict.
Contested — While a conflict is resolving, the ring that has
Claimed — When a player wins a conflict, that player claims the contested ring and places it into his or her claimed ring pool.
I can see how it is confusing, because the rrg doesnt exactly say that a ring in the claimed ring pool is a claimed ring, like it says for unclaimed rings. But a ring being claimed is placed in the claimed ring pool, and exists in the state "claimed", thus it is a claimed ring.
May 07 2018 06:39 PM by Curtis
Sorry Stefan it still makes no sense to me as the cards I am describing do not say anything about claimed ring pool. It really sounds like a contradiction. I don't know if this helps show you guys what I'm seeing.
*Text straight from the cards, no alteration of what it says on the cards;
*Henshin Disciple - ( While you have claimed or are contesting ) nothing about claimed ring pool
*Prodigy of the Waves - ( While the water ring is claimed ) nothing about claimed ring pool
*Asako Tsuki - ( After the water ring is claimed ) nothing about claimed ring pool
As I read the text on any of these cards, no where does it say anything of a ring being in your claimed ring pool. They only reference to during claiming or after having claimed. Nor does Secluded Shrine say it only works with Actions and Constant Abilities but not Reactions.
On the other hand, this one and others of like verbiage make sense;
*Solemn Scholar - ( If the earth ring is in your claimed ring pool )
Like I said, it is what it is. But can you see how it's confusing? Hopefully I'm not the only one that see's this. lol.
Apr 24 2018 09:50 AM by Stefan2581
The text that secluded shrine offers is: You have a ring in your claimed ring pool.
Associated with having a ring in the claimed ring pool is , that you claimed that ring.
You don't claim it now, you don't claim it later, it has already been claimed, because the ring is in your claimed ring pool.
So every effect that regards a ring being in your claimed ring pool works .
Every reaction to after a ring being claimed (right now), does not. Because the ring never gets claimed again , it is claimed already.
That's why Henshin Disciple ( while ring is the claimed ring pool ) and Prodigy of the Waves ( ring is currently claimed [in your claimed ring pool] ) work, while Asako Tsuki ( reaction to after a water ring is claimed ) does not.
Apr 23 2018 10:02 PM by Curtis
I mean this in the nicest way, so please don't take this wrong or personal lol. I am just trying to wrap my head around this. I am not contesting the fact that you actually claim a ring because you don't, that's why the card says "considered to have". I however don't understand how you can "choose a ring - be considered to have that ring in your >claimed ring pool<", without the act of "claiming". My reasoning behind that is as the verbiage claimed ring pool would require you to claim it in the first place. Keeping in mind that this is not a real claim as the real ring stays where it is, I understand and agree with that. On a "considered" to have level, you have ownership over the ring you choose, which can't be changed until the next round as it's not a physical ring. If Secluded Shrine only works for cards that state specifically for example: Solemn Scholar ( If the Earth ring is in your claimed ring pool ), I'm fine with that. Only reacting to cards that state having the specific ring in your claimed ring pool, makes sense. Where I start to get confused is for example: Henshin Disciple (While you have claimed or are contesting ), which I've heard several times from several different people counts. If you don't "claim" the ring then how does Henshin Disciple count and Asako Tsuki ( After the water ring is claimed ) does not? Or Prodigy of the Waves ( While the water ring is claimed ), but not Asako Tsuki? To me the only difference is the timing as they are both triggered abilities and all 3 react to claimed rings not rings in ring pools. I think an official ruling would be nice. Until we get one I would say nothing works with the rings you get from Secluded Shrine, except card text that reads "(while / if ) you have said ring in your ring pool - perform ability".
Apr 21 2018 02:46 PM by dbmeboy
You don't actually claim the ring at all. Secluded Shrine will work for abilities that check to see if the ring is in your claimed ring pool (ie the state of being claimed). It does not work with anything that triggers off the verb of claiming the ring.
Apr 20 2018 10:48 AM by greuh
Yes, you add a ring to your claimed pool but the real ring is still available.
It will affect all things that ask you to have the ring in your claimed pool but not the cards that say "when you claim", since you never pass by that step. (There already was a clarification about this on the Know The World card). To be more clear : Henshin Disciple = yes, Asako Tsuki = no.
Apr 17 2018 08:16 PM by Curtis
So you "Claim" the ring, hypothetically just not physically? Does this cover toward characters who's text say "claimed", after you "claim" the ring, after the ring is "claimed" and while the ring is "claimed"? I just want it to be clear, sorry if I sound redundant.
Apr 17 2018 04:16 AM by Severijn
Some rulings on this card:
A ring affected by Secluded Shrine counts towards the Imperial Favor contest.
If you use Shrine on a ring and then claim it, it only counts once.
If you use Shrine on a ring and your opponent claims it, it counts for both players.
You cannot play Know the World to switch a ring affected by Secluded Shrine if it is not actually in your claimed pool.
In short: It is counted as being in your claimed pool, but isn't physically in your pool.
This is an excellent holding. It really powers up all those characters that care about claimed rings like solemn scholar and henshin disciple. Most notably: You will have less need to contest the water ring for your first conflict, opening you up to doing a ring that comes with a more tangible pay-off like earth or fire.
It is not without its downside though. Taking up a slot of your dynasty deck on a permanent basis isn't free, especially in that you already have forgotten library and kanjo district as holdings that you want to keep in play. If you do want to run all forgotten libraries, secluded shrines and kanjo district, be sure to offset this dynasty draw cost with conflict characters. The other reminder is that you still do not want to play this to make a bad card good. Your character should be playable even without having the ring in the first place.
It also acts as tech for Isawa Tadaka, since you can bypass his text box by assigning this holding to the earth ring. This holding is possibly the one you want for your Kyuden Isawa deck when you are facing a phoenix mirror.
Finger of Jade
Apr 16 2018 05:45 PM by mplain
Indeed, Kamayari does not say "choose a character", it does not target, and thus cannot be cancelled by Finger of Jade.
Finger of Jade
Apr 16 2018 12:10 PM by Asklepios
Are you sure? Kamayiri doesn't target, I believe.
Apr 13 2018 08:59 AM by Darthnazrael
What was the ruling on this card? Does it strictly matter for card effects like Solemn Scholar and Prodigy of the Waves, or does it affect universal mechanics? For example, does it block someone from declaring a conflict with that ring?
The Path of Man
Apr 12 2018 08:55 AM by Severijn
Another card that supports the archetype where Phoenix builds towering characters with multiple fate on them. This is pretty powerful: 2 fate from 1 card is way above the usual rate. Even Embrace the void yields one a turn unless if you just flat out lose your character to a feast or famine.
The problem is of course in winning by 5 now that your opponent knows this card exists. In a sense, you will be defending more often against phoenix because of this card. You also will be wary of probe attacks that can be defended by 5 or more defense. The biggest impact of this card might be that players will now try to play around it as it can most certainly swing a game in phoenix's favor.
Note that this is a lot better than fallen in battle. Less conditional, free to play and a kiho that can be drawn by shrine maiden. This should be an excellent addition to phoenix for a long time.
The splash potential is limited by the staggering 4 influence cost, but I wouldn't mind playing this out of unicorn. Unicorn burns through their fate quickly, and when they run out, it's pretty much game. This card may extend the lifespan of unicorn's early game power play.
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