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Android: Netrunner LCG
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Nov 24 2015 06:03 PM by Valdemart
No, the FAQ states it quite clearly:
"The state of hosting is distinct (but not exclusive from) the state of installing. Most cards are hosted on another card when they are installed. If a card is hosted but not installed, the card is inactive."
So, if it doesn't says installed, those cards are only "hosted" (you may treat them as counters) and can be targeted by "do something with a hosted counter/card" effects.
The same case is with the Street Peddler, where the distinction between hosted and installed can be seen even in the card text itself.
Nov 24 2015 05:27 PM by Zilvake
So, I'm guessing Endless Hunger would be able to trash these cards since they are technically installed?
Nov 24 2015 09:09 AM by Valdemart
I don't see a problem - it is the start of the Runner's turn, so any simultaneous effects can be arranged - first you trigger the doctor, Rolodex is now blank, than you trigger Pawnshop. No cards trashed, plus 3 credits.
However, keep in mind that the downside can also be an upside - Rolodex lets you ditch those 3 cards you don't need right now, or you need them in the heap for recursion because you are packing some Clone chips and Levy access. And who is known to love Levy access and is used to throwing random cards in the heap? Yes, you got it, MaxX can really optimize her next turn draw with the Rolodex and Inject, maybe. Yet, deckslots...
Nov 24 2015 07:50 AM by Zilvake
I'm curious if this works: could the runner blank Rolodex with Dr. Lovegood (Data & Destiny) then sell it to Aesop to gain 3 creds and NOT have to trash the top 3 cards of their stack?
Nov 20 2015 05:12 PM by Meadbeard
Good discussion: agreed this needs a ruling in the FAQ.
There's nothing transparent about Executives losing their text when in the Runner's score area (it's not active, obviously, but neither is most Agenda text).
Nov 20 2015 04:09 PM by Valdemart
It is a little vague explanation, but one I will agree with, as those combinations would be really strong.
Just to comment on the provided examples of Oversight AI and BER - those cards are converted to condition counters while they are active in order to work, yet an Executive is converted to an agenda in order to give the agenda points (and enter the scored area as well). If it becomes "non-agenda", wouldn't it stop providing those points? Also I don't see a difference between the "active" text on an asset (which requires a preset conditions to be active, i.e. rezzing) and one on an agenda (which also requires a condition, in this case, scoring). Otherwise, a printed text/ability is no different from another. Thus when Media Blitz enables the text on the agenda, the only possible explanation for a card that bears the type "agenda" not to provide the whole of it's text is because the card is no longer an agenda. Then Data Dealer won't work...
In order to settle things we need a paragraph in the FAQ regarding "type conversion": the process when a certain card type changes or gains properties of another card type. The converted card will not gain all of the target properties but only those explicitly stated in the cards' text. This addition to the rules will mean that when an asset is converted to an agenda, it only gains the "agenda" type and the points, reffered to in the text, and no other properties of the target type, nor is any other property on the card converted to be an "agenda text/advancement cost/etc."
Please excuse me if there is already rule in the FAQ regarding this matter.
Nov 20 2015 05:11 AM by Jmrburgard
Unless something changed, Lucas has ruled that the text of the executives are blank when they are agendas. They are simply "2 point" agendas. So you can't use Media Blitz to double them.
Can't find an actual ruling, but see here.
GS Shrike M2
Nov 20 2015 01:07 AM by jad
Shrike has to be the most 'normal' sentry breaker. One memory, reasonable cost, cheap to pump and cheap to break. Best for the sentries that mimic has trouble with. 6 to get through Susan, 2 to get through Komainu. Mimic + Shrike will deal with anything. I wouldn't be surprised if this became the main shaper sentry breaker at least. I am a little surprised that it's so strong (for a killer).
Nov 19 2015 08:39 PM by Meadbeard
Yup -- two words: Medical Breakthrough.
I like the double Hiro idea too. That might actually work.
Nov 19 2015 02:51 PM by Valdemart
A few months later this card seems even more powerful. Besides the Mandatory Upgrades play which is now utilized by the HB:Cybernetics Division you can also try to pull roughly the same trick in Jinteki: Harmony Medtech with Medical Breakthrough. The concept is simple - hyper aggresive deck that aims at scoring the Breakthrough as early as possible, prefereably through Mushin-No-Shin on a naked server. If the Runner steals it, it gets even better - you just Media Blitz it to essentialy double it's effect. Throw some Fast Tracks in the mix of that 40 min size deck and the rush potential is real. The clock is ticking and the moment you find the second Medical, you can FA it, not to mention the third, which puts you on game point just too quickly. By now the Runner must have realised that time is short and burn resources for accessing like mad. Finish with SanSan Grid installed and FA a Braintrust.
In regard to the Mandatory Blitz deck in another forum I found an even more disturbing prospect - nothing prevents Media Blitz from functioning with the Executives. Just add some Director Haas to that deck and play them whenever you feel up to it. If she gets trashed - that is -5 credits for the Runner, Blitz her and get your click anyway (net difference is 0 credits, you get your click). It also allows you to quickly reach 5 click turn with just a single agenda. Melange the hell out of the game!
But the most troublesome thing here is that once added to the Runner's score area (and Blitzed) you can play another copy of that unique card because by the game rules it is no longer installed or active, essentialy doubling the effect. Double Hiro? Why not. Double Haas? That is just mean. Double Victoria? Close the Runner's accounts and watch them foam. Even the Board might get played, because trashing 2 consecutive costs the whooping 14 credits, and with two active it is -2 per agenda in the Runner's score area - Argus security may go for their variant of a Thousand Cuts deck.
Feeding an agenda to the Runner has never been that satisfying.
Global Food Initiative
Nov 18 2015 09:24 PM by Valdemart
For clearance won't quote the whole paragraph, even though it is worth it. Great read as always, and the above exceprt was my initial spark of doubt on the case - the word "on" lead to the conclusion that the value was on in the moment of stealing and irrelevant to the Punitive Counterstrike afterwards. Yet the logical steps of the game state should be disected by their original designers (and seeing as they can rule it either way I think they will give the green a little bump saying 3 in the end
Global Food Initiative
Nov 18 2015 06:46 PM by Meadbeard
I can totally see that argument, except that the Rulebook does not unequivocally define "stealing" apart from the agenda being present in the score area.
Page 31: "Steal: the act of the Runner adding an accessed agenda to his score area." In other words, part of the act of stealing an agenda is the presence of the agenda in the score area.
Unfortunately, on page 18, stealing an agenda and "[placing] it face-up in [the] score area" are separated. This is sloppy, since, read together, to "steal" is to add an accessed agenda to the score area and place it face-up in the score area. The "and" is also not clearly sequential, but the reduplication is equivocal. (I appreciate the coding aspect of your argument, but it assumes that the "and" is necessarily linear, presupposing cause and effect for what might be a single "event").
That's problematic enough to warrant an answer on the FAQ, since it's unclear how much the Runner "stole." I appreciate the argument regarding Data Dealer, but this is clearly a separate action from "stealing."
Is Punitive Counterstrike functioning on the Corp's loss or the Runner's gain? Is the agenda being present in the Runner's score area a part of "stealing" or subsequent to it?
I'm leaning toward your answer, but I'm not fully convinced.
EDIT: minor quibble -- this agenda makes no claim regarding its point-value "after" it is in the score area, but only "while." If that "while" is a part of the act of "stealing," then the answer to the question is "2." If that "while" is subsequent to the act of stealing, then the answer is "3."
Further EDIT: Actually, I'm siding with "3" now. Punitive Counterstrike refers to "the number of Agenda points on Agendas that were stolen." It has nothing to do with what they're currently worth. The Agenda was stolen; it has 3 points listed on it. Case closed.
Global Food Initiative
Nov 18 2015 05:24 PM by Valdemart
I was going to object and explain how it is 2 points, but after a second thought I am going to actually jump on the 3 point train.
Consider this: Punitive says that meat damage is dealt equal to the number of agenda points stolen during the last turn. So, even if I Data Dealer a stolen agenda, effectively making the net point difference in my score area from the last turn 0, Punitive is still going to hit me witht the agenda points on the stolen card.
Second, GFI says that it becomes 1 less agenda point only AFTER it is in the Runner's score area. So, even though it should be a single step, the sequence is: GFI is "stolen" for 3 points; GFI is moved to the Runner's score area; GFI gets -1 agenda point; a check whether the Runner has won is made; other simultaneous effects "on stealing". Also ,the rulebook makes a difference between the act of stealing and the agenda providing agenda points (page 18: "Stealing Agendas").
So when you make a check how many points the Runner has stolen (not what is the net difference in his score area for the last turn), you end up with the number 3.
As before, I want to stress the fact that I am looking at things from the view of a programmer scripting the game as it should run on a computer based on the current rulebook set. Official answer on this would really throw more light on conditional checking in Netrunner.
Global Food Initiative
Nov 18 2015 08:08 AM by Tasku
Oh, I would have ruled it as 3 damage because the points on agendas are printed in actual agenda card. I hope that FAQs will answer this soon.
Neutralize All Threats
Nov 17 2015 06:40 PM by Meadbeard
Seriously though, Adam is only running Marked Accounts if he wants to trash it. So this once-per-turn effect isn't going to do anything the Runner doesn't want it to do, at least on a remote.
It's going to make him a little stupid making blind HQ runs, which will also be dangerous versus damage effects (because of the extra access), at any rate, and which is really part of the design (run Adam at HQ early and you may suffer for it, both damage-wise and financially).
There are many other ways to impact the Runner's economy that are much more direct than this.
Neutralize All Threats
Nov 17 2015 05:47 PM by MightyToenail
So I though of something. In theory, could you just only multi-ice the central servers, and leave remote fairly unprotected, so that you could drain Adam's money with cards like Marked Accounts because of this.
Nov 17 2015 05:00 PM by Meadbeard
There are plenty of solutions to getting +MU for Sage, but what I like best about it is how effective it makes my Cortex Lock
Nov 17 2015 04:56 PM by jiriku
I have used it somewhat successfully loaded onto Dinosaurus with Chaos Theory. Using Quality Time/Diesel to draw into the combo quickly and and Personal Workshop/Stimhack to play it, I can very reliably have a Str-7 Sage in play and breaking subs on turn 3 or 4. Problem is, the trick is only decent, not great. You still need a sentry breaker, and paying 2 creds/sub is expensive if your opponent stacks low-cost ice with multiple subroutines on a server. The benefit of having a solid-but-not-perfect fracter/decoder is just not sufficient to justify the trouble involved. I may try recreating some variation of that with Sunny, but I fear the influence cost of all the support cards will render it even more cost-prohibitive for her than for CT.
Nov 17 2015 10:00 AM by theamazingmrg
My problem with Sage is the 2 MU on a card that needs unused MU to be effective. Other than that, yeah, it'd be a decent fit in a Sunny deck.
Nov 16 2015 07:58 PM by Darikgrey
I've played a few games with Adam now and he is quite fun. Is he tier-1? No, and I'm skeptical that any of the mini-faction runners ever will be tier-1. But he can be very efficient. Yes, you have drawbacks on those three directives that begin the game in play - but you also essentially have 3 ID powers as well. You begin the game with some card draw, an omnibreaker and an HQ interface already installed and online. It can be excellent! Don't forget, Dr. Lovegood can always target himself as the card to be blanked if you don't want to use him on any of the directives on a certain turn.
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