Jump to content

Welcome to Card Game DB
Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to create topics, post replies to existing threads, give reputation to your fellow members, get your own private messenger, post status updates, manage your profile and so much more. If you already have an account, login here - otherwise create an account for free today!

Android: Netrunner LCG


Search for Cards
Name:
Order By:
More Search Options
Type:
Subtype:
Text:
Faction:
Set:

Unique:
Side:
Restricted:
Cost:
Strength:
Influence:
Memory Units:
Agenda Points:
Hide Search Options
Recent Card Discussion
Panchatantra
***--

Today, 02:03 PM by bozfoogle

This has been ruled on. You can give the ICE any subtype not explicitly forbidden by the card - this includes subtypes that don't even exist in the game's current lexicon e.g. 'watermelon'. This means you can make Wraparound a fracter to nullify its own ability, and turn Enforcer into a console to make it trash itself (or you would be able to if anyone actually played Enforcer). Swordsman combo doesn't work because, as you've pointed out, its only relevant to programs.

Midori
****-

Today, 10:32 AM by AdorablePython

There's no paid ability window at Step 2 (when the Runner approaches the ICE), so you have to get her in before that. She's difficult to time correctly for the first piece of unrezzed ICE, unless, of course, you've rezzed her outside of the run.

 

At 2.1 there is one, but that would be after the trigger condition has already been met. So it wouldn't work then, I assume?

 

EDIT: I could have read the FAQ before asking. It's already explained in there. >.<

Midori
****-

Today, 04:50 AM by Meadbeard

Do I have to rez her before the runner approaches the ICE? Or may I rez her when the runner approaches the ICE? For her ability to work, I mean.

 

There's no paid ability window at Step 2 (when the Runner approaches the ICE), so you have to get her in before that. She's difficult to time correctly for the first piece of unrezzed ICE, unless, of course, you've rezzed her outside of the run.

Midori
****-

Yesterday, 11:19 PM by AdorablePython

Do I have to rez her before the runner approaches the ICE? Or may I rez her when the runner approaches the ICE? For her ability to work, I mean.

Panchatantra
***--

Feb 09 2016 10:37 PM by Meadbeard

Yeah, "Program" is not a subtype.

 

However, this brings up an interesting question: can you give ICE a subtype that is not usually present on ICE?

 

In other words, can you give a Swordsman the subtype "AI," then use its own subroutine to trash it? (I am guessing "no," since the ICE still isn't an "AI Program," which the card requires). That's interesting and less obvious than giving some big Barrier "AP" in order to break it with Deus X, etc.

 

Alas, this is probably only really useful for the latter trick. Still, it's not terrible to get through a Curtain Wall by disposing of that Deus X, especially if the CW has been cheated into play and derezzes -- that use almost certainly doesn't justify this card for competitive use.

Panchatantra
***--

Feb 09 2016 08:42 PM by apcud7

That would be really cool, but I don't think program is a subtype :(

Panchatantra
***--

Feb 09 2016 07:46 PM by AdorablePython

The Corp has a rezzed Archer on the table and installs a 3-point Agenda behind it.

 

You have facechecked it before, so now you don't have any programs left.

 

Click 1, install Panchatantra. Click 2, make a run on the scoring remote. Give Archer the "program" subtype by using Panchatantra.

 

The second subroutine fires, trashing Panchatantra. The third subroutine fires, trashing the only remaining program on the table, which is Archer itself. Now the fourth subroutine can't fire because Archer isn't on the table anymore. Steal the 3-point Agenda.

 

:P

Jesminder Sareen
****-

Feb 09 2016 07:23 PM by MightyToenail
She feels rather like Armand, relying too much in other cards to trigger her ability. Any card that gets most of its power from the opponents deck is not a powerful card.
The Brewery
***--

Feb 09 2016 03:02 PM by AdorablePython

If the Runner has a clone chip and Deus Ex in their heap, what's the latest they would have to trigger it to prevent a flat-line?

 

When your turn begins, before the first click. However, when you announce your first action (which would be flipping the identity) the runner can't just say "Oh, let me use Clone Chip before that". He has to announce it before you do. Otherwise, he gains knowledge which he can use retroactively to his advantage - and that's a Nono.

Jesminder Sareen
****-

Feb 08 2016 08:59 AM by Valdemart

I know this is like beating a dead horse, but there may be a simple Shaper program waiting ahead that allows you to blank the text of the current ice and replace it with the text of another rezzed ice. Just replace that triple ETR on Curtain Wall with a Trace ->Tag, avoid it, and pass at your leisure (or the program may give you a tag for such trickery).

 

Keep her aside for now, but mark where she is - she is far from being tier 1, but is definetely not as bad as some other.

Jesminder Sareen
****-

Feb 08 2016 02:13 AM by KillerShrike

I'm thinking Maya will be useful on multi-access particularly -- find that key operation and bury it: Scorched Earth? Biotic Labor? Punitive Counterstrike? Midseason? How about a Shi.kyu?

 

Buh bye. ;)

 

Bottom of R&D can be a lot safer than Archives.

 

Also @KillerShrike: I've missed you, bro.

 

Yeah, Maya is obviously intended to be Sareen's console. Still not making $2 per run.

 

And yeah, its good to be back. I've had a really busy time of it lately, been hard to make time for hobbies! Missed you guys. :)

Jesminder Sareen
****-

Feb 08 2016 02:10 AM by KillerShrike

Maya gives you a tag every turn.

If you take that as a console, and if you activate its optional ability. And again, that's a synergistic card interaction with some other card.

 

The statement that I questioned was ""Make 2 credits per run."". The reason being, if there is in fact a way to leverage the identity ability to do that I'd obviously want to know about it.

 

All the ensuing brouhaha after asking has instead presented other card interactions which are all pretty obvious and not what I was asking for clarification on. I'm still waiting to hear the make 2 credits per run pro tip.

 

:(

Apocalypse
**---

Feb 08 2016 12:08 AM by AdorablePython

Today I managed to pull this off. And it felt really rewarding to reset the board, wiping away 6+ cards. I didn't really care about my rig, as it was merely turned into more fodder for an upcoming Endless Hunger.

Jesminder Sareen
****-

Feb 07 2016 03:32 PM by Meadbeard

Maya gives you a tag every turn.

 

I'm thinking Maya will be useful on multi-access particularly -- find that key operation and bury it: Scorched Earth? Biotic Labor? Punitive Counterstrike? Midseason? How about a Shi.kyu?

 

Buh bye. ;)

 

Bottom of R&D can be a lot safer than Archives.

 

Also @KillerShrike: I've missed you, bro.

Jesminder Sareen
****-

Feb 07 2016 08:45 AM by AdorablePython

I don't disagree with the statement "this runner has a lot of synergy with Vamp". 

 

I disagree with the generalization that this runner with or without Vamp in the deck is synonymous with "Make 2 credits per run."

 

 

Running 3 copies of Vamp, even with heavy recursion, is not synonymous with a guaranteed $2 per turn, much less per run. Vamp will not be in your hand every turn, you will not play it every turn, you will not play it every run.

 

 

I'm not trying to be obtuse. I don't disagree that the identity is playable despite not being interested myself. I just don't see the benefit of exaggerating scenarios to conflate a solid card interaction to the level of an "always on" passive ability.

 

Maya gives you a tag every turn.

Jesminder Sareen
****-

Feb 07 2016 03:44 AM by KillerShrike

I don't disagree with the statement "this runner has a lot of synergy with Vamp". 

 

I disagree with the generalization that this runner with or without Vamp in the deck is synonymous with "Make 2 credits per run."

 

 

Running 3 copies of Vamp, even with heavy recursion, is not synonymous with a guaranteed $2 per turn, much less per run. Vamp will not be in your hand every turn, you will not play it every turn, you will not play it every run.

 

 

I'm not trying to be obtuse. I don't disagree that the identity is playable despite not being interested myself. I just don't see the benefit of exaggerating scenarios to conflate a solid card interaction to the level of an "always on" passive ability.

Jesminder Sareen
****-

Feb 07 2016 03:23 AM by Meadbeard

With respect, that statement hurts my head. 0 is not >0. Losing money is not making money. It is at best breaking even, and if opportunity cost is considered can be inferred to be a loss of expected revenue.

 

If I could earn $100 dollars or lose $100 dollars but instead gain $0 and lose $0 I did not "make money". Nor did I "lose money". I broke even; I also lost the opportunity to make money, and also avoided the risk to lose money. Because math.

 

oO killer shrike does not understand this new math Oo

 

Vamp. You take a tag. You spend a click and 2 credits to clear that tag. Jesminder doesn't have to do this . . .

 

Consider this:

 

Gabe Vamps, gets his successful run on HQ, and makes 2 credits. It's now an era when tags can actually hurt you, so he spends 2 credits and a click to clear the tag. He made 2 credits, then he spent 2 credits. His net is zero.

 

Jesminder Vamps and avoids the tag from Vamp. Her net is zero, and she's a click up on Gabe. That click is potentially worth money as well. This is the case on turn 1 of the game: clearing a tag per run for free has an economic value. That economic value is considerable.

 

Everybody else Vamps for a net of -2 and a click down to Jesminder. Also, let's not forget that she can repeat this trick multiple times during a turn.

 

This is someone who should be Vamping -- a few clicks and a few credits saved makes the difference in that economic race. Vamp runs on money more than most.

 

What if I had a Vamp that was also a Dirty Laundry? Without any additional economic pieces in place, that's what this is: a normal Runner Vamps, then uses 2 credits and a click to clear the tag; Jesminder Vamps, avoids the tag for free, and simply makes a credit with the click, because we're not talking about combos here. Runner #1 nets -2 credits; Jesminder nets 1 credit. She's 3 credits up on the other guy.

 

A Dirty Laundry in your Vamp does not suck.

 

That's not even considering the economic benefit to her that she gains for walking through a Gutenberg, a Turnpike, a Shadow, a Newshound, a Matrix Analyzer, Hunter, Bandwidth, because we might not want to consider the Corp's choices or structure. Against many Corps it'll do nothing; against some, the economic benefit could swing the game.

 

The economic aspect that you're misunderstanding is that she's not sitting on her ass not making money -- she's doing something -- a lot, actually. I'm talking about the bottom line of a series of actions -- net profit or loss, not passivity. That's built in: she has to run to benefit.

Jesminder Sareen
****-

Feb 06 2016 11:47 PM by KillerShrike

 Not losing money is making money.

 

With respect, that statement hurts my head. 0 is not >0. Losing money is not making money. It is at best breaking even, and if opportunity cost is considered can be inferred to be a loss of expected revenue.

 

If I could earn $100 dollars or lose $100 dollars but instead gain $0 and lose $0 I did not "make money". Nor did I "lose money". I broke even; I also lost the opportunity to make money, and also avoided the risk to lose money. Because math.

 

oO killer shrike does not understand this new math Oo

Jesminder Sareen
****-

Feb 06 2016 11:38 PM by KillerShrike

Avoiding a tag means that you have 2 more credits than you would have when the tag isn't avoided, but taken and then removed.

 

That's a flawed premise. 

 

It is predicated upon the assumption that the runner would take a tag every turn. 

 

If that were true, then yes the identity ability would be equivalent to $2 and 1 click per turn.

 

However that is not true in the general case.

 

There are special cases where that can be made to be true, if the runner intentionally plays cards that incur one tag per turn or potentially against specific corps decks sporting reliable tagging cards. In the special cases where it consistently applies, then yes the identity ability is good (obviously). But it is misleading to pretend that special cases are a de facto constant yield of $2 per turn.

Jesminder Sareen
****-

Feb 06 2016 07:27 PM by Meadbeard

Avoiding a tag means that you have 2 more credits than you would have when the tag isn't avoided, but taken and then removed.

 

Look, if Gabe has 1 chance to land 2 credits a turn, and this is huge, I'd expect 4 chances to avoid a 2 credit hit is decently good, never mind the click, the damage the tag can do . . . whatever. I'd expect to run aggressively with Jesminder and save 2 credits a turn (or more).

 

There will always be non-tagging Corp decks, just like there will be Corp decks that can lock Gabe out of HQ. Of course, Vamp and Account Siphon don't depend on the Corp.

 

This thing is econ and click efficiency, at least if you're aggressive. Not losing money is making money.



Netrunner is a TM of R. Talsorian Games, Inc. Android is TM & ©2012 Fantasy Flight Publishing, Inc. All rights reserved. Netrunner is licensed by Wizards of the Coast LLC. ©2012 Wizards.