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Arkham Horror: The Card Game
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Jan 15 2017 07:20 AM by xraysteve
*An ability on a card in play referencing “you” or “your” refers to the investigator who controls, is engaged with, or is currently interacting with the card.
RRG pg 22
Jan 07 2017 04:32 AM by RichardPlunkett
Roland's ability trigger is "After you defeated an enemy"
The 'you' here is the controller. If his ability required the Roland character/card to do the defeating, it would likely be self-referential, eg "After Roland defeats and enemy".
Now this game does create a little Character/controller confusion, since you are playing a single character in a more roleplaying sense than for example playing the heroes in lotr, but still the language is fairly standard and it would be strangely sloppy to use what they wrote to mean the Roland card specifically had to do the defeating.
Jan 06 2017 02:56 AM by jdk5143
I think gaffa's right because "you" (roland) are controlling the effect of guard dog.
Jan 05 2017 08:51 PM by ZenClix
JDK and Gaffa, thank you both for your replies. I am not sure we have a resolution, but this at least makes me feel the question was justified.
Jan 05 2017 05:15 AM by Gaffa
Roland's base ability doesn't require him to fight; it just requires him to have defeated an enemy at his location. Because the Guard Dog is Roland's action, Roland is the one who controls (and plays) the Reaction Trigger of the Guard Dog doing damage, which means he counts as the "you" for any card effects. So if the Guard Dog's reaction defeats an enemy, Roland most certainly can pick up a clue from his location if there is one.
Jan 04 2017 09:03 PM by jdk5143
The difference between this and things like guns/knives are that they require the investigator to fight. The dog doesnt. The dog just does damage without having the investigator be involved in anyway. So no, the dog wouldn't cause Roland to trigger cause Roland isn't doing the damage, like he would be doing if using things like guns/knives.
Jan 04 2017 08:13 AM by Gaffa
Deduction gives the investigating character the extra clue.
Like all clue gaining player cards in the game, none of them take clues from the bank. If there's no clues on the location, you cannot gain any clues. So don't play Deduction for an additional clue if there's only one on the location (you certainly can still commit it for the Intellect boost if you want to at a one-clue location).
Jan 04 2017 02:21 AM by Cambeul
Quote: If this skill test is successful while investigating a location, discover 1 additional clue at that location.
If the Location has only 1 Clue, does this work? Does the Clue come from the "Token Pool" (I can't think of a better way to describe it).
And if yes, if there were 2 Clues at the location, does it only take one Clue from the Location, and one from the Pool?
Jan 04 2017 02:19 AM by Cambeul
So in this case then if I am investigating and someone else plays Deduction, I get the additonal Clue?
Jan 04 2017 12:31 AM by ZenClix
If the Guard Dog, while attached to Roland, defeats an enemy via its 1-damage ability, does that trigger Roland's special to discover a Clue? In other words, does Roland still get "credit" for the kill? I would think yes, as the Guard Dog is Roland's asset and therefore is really no different than defeating an enemy with a Machete or .45, but I thought it was still worth asking. Thanks!
Jan 03 2017 05:22 PM by Doma0997
What I like: Honestly, this is a good all-around card. +1 fight and most of the time +1 damage. It doesn’t use ammo like the guns, and is very nicely priced as well. I know this is a lot of peoples go to weapon for roland and skids for now, and I can see why, as it doesn’t have to be replaced like the guns do. You also can more reliably turn down extra ammunition for other upgrades if you are focusing on the Machete. Skids I think gets a lot more mileage out of this because he has the agility to evade an enemy if engaged by multiples and strike down on the remaining one.
What I don’t like: I don’t focus on the Machete as much as most people, but I’ll still run at least one. The biggest reason for this is that draw back that you don’t get the bonus damage if there are multiple enemies. I’ll probably take the .45 more often, at least the first time through a campaign because if I find out that a scenario is an enemy swarm or has a boss, I’d rather the consistency of that bonus damage. If I’m engaged with multiple enemies, I probably need to take one out quickly, and Machete won’t get that job done. That being said, I can’t really complain about the work it does.
What it needs: Probably cards that can move enemies around (I know there are some coming) or let you disengage easily to just pull in one enemy. Skids is already pretty well suited for this card with his high agility so I can’t say it wants a different kind of investigator. I feel like down the line there may be a card that does the same thing but with different restrictions, but only time will tell.
Scaling: If I were to go through expert right now, I don’t feel like I would have the card power to actually make it through. I just feel like a +1 isn’t going to get anyone there, but that’s roughly all we’re going to have for a little while it seems. Seeing as how you have to pull from the chaos bag in order to use it, it just gets slowly worse as the difficulty gets higher.
Jan 03 2017 09:58 AM by JamesUK
Yeah I have to agree with Doma0997 here. In my experience with Rolland/Skids/Agnes, these kind of cards end up staying in your hand doing nothing or being committed for skill tests. It's too expensive IMO, it should have a cost of 0 and fast. This card is specially bad when you have Paranoia as basic-weakness.
Jan 02 2017 03:14 PM by Doma0997
And I hinted at those points in the small scaling section. I understand that beating the test by about two in standard gives you a huge chance of success, but I don't play this game it seems in the same way you do. I deck build to maximize my resource usage with my cards. I want the permanent boosts when I can get them, and those boosts are expensive and resources are scarce. I tend not to play this game where there are critical skill checks to pass, because I firmly believe that being able to pass more checks constantly results in a smoother game where you don't need to worry about those huge game changing checks later. Roland is usually constantly burning through his resources because he has so many good things to play. Skids has an ability worth using often, and I don't burgle often because I often play the game trying to constantly be moving forward with each action I take.
In my eyes, I take something like the gathering and see I have 20 turns to win. Probably less because there are plenty of ways the doom moves faster. that's a base of 24 resources I have to spend without using an action on gathering a resource. I have usually 8-11 resources of assets I want to play opening hand, I want to make sure I have enough for dynamite blast at some point, perhaps the ending, so there's another 5, and that's without events that I want to play that I have to have the resources on hand for, and it only gets more difficult as new cards are released.
You've got 14 turns in the second scenario (usually way way less) and at best 24 in the last, but at best is really pushing it. So for a character that doesn't generate resources fairly easily, it's not as easy to justify running it.
Another thing to take in consideration is multiplayer vs solo. I see this as a fine card in multiplayer, because you're not spending all your resources on making sure you can do everything. I do, however, build decks as if I'm always playing solo, so that in multiplayer I can split from the group to cover more ground and not have to worry as much about needing someone to come pull me out.
I am looking forward to the skill booster talents that are permanent however.
I'm not saying it's a bad card, but if you build with a resource curve in mind in your deck, it will skew the results pretty hard, which is what I mean build around it. I didn't appreciate the snark with the deck building game comment you made, mostly because the concept I'm talking about is catering the deck around a card. You shouldn't be building your deck around every card you have, your deck is an engine.
I firmly believe every card has its use, I'm just giving my own perspective.
Jan 01 2017 08:28 PM by Gaffa
You're greatly misapplying this card. (Aslo: "It almost feels like you have to build around being able to use it". Really? In a deck construction game? Do tell.)
You're going to need help passing key checks in any scenario. It might be combat, it might be not dropping all your clues at a bad time due to a False Lead, it might be just not dying from claws reaching out of the floor. You can boost your odds either with cards spent on commitment, passive boosts (like the Beat Cop helping on Combat), or these Skill Talents.
Obviously the persistent boosts of the Beat Cop or Dr. Milan Christopher are the best; they're always on. Cards spent on commitment, including Skill cards, give a great, free boost one time to a test, but that's situational, and you can't control what's coming to the top of your deck. In fact, unless you're using Scrying on yourself, you won't even know what's coming next. Packing 2 Guts and 2 Unexpected Courages is great for Skids, who is always worried about his shaky Willpower, but you can't guarantee you're going to grab one off the top of your deck if you need to get rid of a poorly timed Frozen in Fear.
That leaves these Skill Talents. And what you're paying for is reliability and consistency. You don't know what commitment icons the top of your deck will give you, but you do know that you're getting one resource a turn, and you know exactly what that one resource will get you with Physical Training.
There's also the misapprehension that you have to crush the Chaos Bag in odds to get any expected value (EV) out of Skill Talents. Even that's not the case. While each Chaos Bag is different, let's look at Standard Difficulty for Night of the Zealot. The odds there show that if your skill = target, you have about a 25% chance of success (varying on number of ghouls in play, doom on cultists, and etc.). Raising that to just +1 over target basically doubles your chance of success. Going to +2 over target adds another +30% or so to your success rate (to around 80%). Going to +3 or higher than your target obviously still raises the success rate (at least until only the autofail is left to ruin you), but the amount gained for resources (or cards) committed starts suffering from diminishing returns after +2, so it's probably not worth it unless you're swimming in resources or cards.
So the point of studying the odds of the Chaos Bag is that you can considerably increase your odds of finishing the scenario in a way you like by raising your skill number to +1 or +2 over the target for key tests. The Skill Talents give you a reusable, reliable, and non-asset-slot-using way of doing that again and again. That's excellent EV for their cost, and a big relief on the cards in your hand, which will (unless they're Skills) now be able to be used for their main purpose, instead of commitment.
Even if you just drop 1 resource into Physical Training now and then to increase your odds to hit a cultists from even to +1, you're doubling your success on that pull. That's a good deal for one resource. And you can keep doing that each turn...plus having something on board where, if you really need to, you can spam resource spending to try to pull off a clutch last-ditch effort for whatever's needed.
Yes, you have to build around them -- you should be building around all your cards. No, you don't need a build that requires a lot of resource generation to use them. Sure, you can think of a build that doesn't need them. Good job! But they're efficient, reliable, and reusable ways to crank out that EV of raising your tests to the vital +1 or +2 above target, and that's not something you should just dismiss casually. Even if you love Skills (and they're great cards), don't forget that you don't know what Skill is coming next off the top of your deck. Guts or Overpower? With Physical Training on the field, you can get both. And you always know how many resources you have and how many you can get before a key check.
Jan 01 2017 03:39 PM by Doma0997
What I like: It doesn’t take up a slot, which is nice. I think the skill icon combination is pretty nice. A lot of people don’t like the will pip, seeing as will isn’t tied to major action unless you are a mystic, but having will on the same card as fight means that if that treachery comes up that calls for will you can throw it that way but if not you’ll be fighting a lot too regardless. Being able to boost your fight and will with resources is nice for both Roland and Skids at the moment, seeing as both need that will boost and Skids doesn’t mind the access to the fight (even though he has hard knocks for that).
What I don’t like: I don’t like these types of cards right now. That is to say, I don’t like these cards in most of my builds. Resources tend to be limited, and I can’t justify putting too much into this so I never feel like I get value out of it. It almost feels like you have to build around being able to use it, otherwise it gets tossed to a skill check more often than not. If you build a deck with a specific resource curve to where you always spend your resources on events and other assets, there is just not a whole lot of room for this. Also, it scales so poorly.
What it needs: Investigators that love making money (I’d rather use resources on Skids ability, but Jenny is looking great for these types of cards). Investigators and items that care about how much you win a test by (derringer, switchblade). More ways to make resources easily.
Scaling: I give the skill boosting talents some credit in that on standard an easy, they get a pass in the right build. When you only need a +1 or +2 to your skill to almost guarantee your success, being able to pick and choose when you get that boost is pretty nice. However, when the chaos bag decides on expert that you get an average of -3 to your skill, you can’t really afford to pump all of those resources into this. The demand for the card increases as difficulty goes up, but your resources do not, so if you think it’s hard to use consistently now, it only gets worse.
Dec 31 2016 07:41 PM by Doma0997
Just a few opinions on this card. I'll be going over each card as time goes by.
What I like: There is not enough healing in the core set, so often times when you get low on health or sanity, you better book it or pray. The cost is reasonable, it doesn’t take up a slot, and you can use it on other investigators which could turn you into a little mini-healer which Agnes will love so she can ping a couple more times. The fact that it heals horror and damage is functionally useful. The will skill icon is great for both Roland and Skids right now, as they don’t have a very fun time with will based treacheries. Not needing a skill check to complete (medical texts) or a check to make it better (liquid courage) is also good in some situations.
What I don’t like: The action economy with this is abysmal. I understand, you’re not winning if you’re dying, but to just use it once you’ve spent two actions not making progress. I never feel like I have enough time to play it in solo, and even in multiplayer either the threats have been tackled evenly so there isn’t a dire need for it over something else or the situation is already so bad that spending those actions to recover won’t really help much. The scenarios are just too short in my eyes to warrant using this in most cases.
What it needs: Honestly, first aid needs more investigators like Agnes who care about taking some sort of damage or horror. It also needs other healing cards to stay out of the game. I would gladly take the risk on liquid courage over this, because healing two for a single action is much more reasonable even if it is only horror in that case. As time goes by I feel like healing options will only improve, and unless they are using first aid as a benchmark and everything else gets a risk or negative involved, first aid will fall to obscurity.
Scaling: Here’s where this card shines however. First Aid as it stands has the same level of power in all the difficulties, which gives it a slight edge. With no test needed to make it work and no test needed to get a benefit, it gets more reasonable as you up the difficulty. Easy and standard, I’m waiting for a better option but in hard and expert, this does seem a bit more reliable.
Dec 31 2016 03:31 AM by Gaffa
"You" are not ghouls or rats. "You" are the investigators. The enemies can pass through the portal just fine, oddly enough.
Dec 31 2016 02:21 AM by jdk5143
So if the third agenda is out without the third act, can unengaged ghoul creatures enter this room from the hallway? It says "you" may not enter the room, but nothing of monsters. While the story would tell me no they cannot enter the parlor, the card and agenda text tells me otherwise.
Ward of Protection
Dec 26 2016 08:19 AM by mnBroncos
yeah i think it will be a more common oversite that is another reason wanted to form discussion about it.
Ward of Protection
Dec 26 2016 07:24 AM by mplain
Huh i didn't even realize this limitation, dammit!
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